Maura Murray

The Beast" (no, not Sasquatch)

Students at WPMA take basic training. How it stacks up to boot camp, I have no personal knowledge and I wasn't trying to backhandedly undermine what real-time soldiers have to face. Not in any way. I shouldn't even have to defend that but it bears mentioning because no matter how we all feel about war, none of us can deny the how overwhelmingly grateful we all are to those brave soldiers who risk their lives for all of us. Nuff said, let’s fuggedaboutit.

http://beastandwestpoint.blogspot.com/2008/10...

The point was that MM was not a silly girl who stuck out her thumb and said "take me" to the first chancer that drove by.

She didn't walk into the woods and succumb. Unless she walked eastward on Rte. 112, put on a hermetically sealed Haz-mat suit of some kind that befuddled a SAR dog's olfactory senses and then wandered into the wild and died.

If she left with a secret lover then there certainly were an awful lot of unnecessary shenanigans when you could have just parked in the wild, let the air out of a tire and walked away.

So she either left:

A) With a person(s) unknown to her who appeared trustworthy (tow truck “poser”, quasi-LE, Brad Pitt in a Boy Scout uniform)

B) With one or two people who masterfully and silently got her into their vehicle without anyone nearby hearing or seeing anything.

C) With someone who appeared non-threatening with whom she'd previously had a brief encounter with at a rest stop and who may have sabotaged MM and/or the Saturn.

D) With someone she went up to NH to meet, someone who she wanted to sort something out with. Maybe she has some potentially harmful information on that person. She tells that person in advance that she's going up to Bartlett and gives him her exact route. She happens to crash and he shows up at fortuitously the right moment. He says: let's discuss this "issue". MM gets in, they disagree and foul play is involved. In this scenario, it's possible that they decided to meet up for a second at a gas station or McDonald's so MM could show him her "evidence", ergo he knew which route she was taking...?

madwife wrote:

<quoted text>
refresh my memory if you can,was the A-frame in any of the coverage locations?

No, to this day it still doesn't have coverage there. If you head up the old ski area to the top you might eeck out a signal but its a hike/ATV/snowmachine area, not a driveable one....and VERY dark at night

Frostman wrote:

The Beast" (no, not Sasquatch)
Students at WPMA take basic training. How it stacks up to boot camp, I have no personal knowledge and I wasn't trying to backhandedly undermine what real-time soldiers have to face. Not in any way. I shouldn't even have to defend that but it bears mentioning because no matter how we all feel about war, none of us can deny the how overwhelmingly grateful we all are to those brave soldiers who risk their lives for all of us. Nuff said, let’s fuggedaboutit.
http://beastandwestpoint.blogspot.com/2008/10...
The point was that MM was not a silly girl who stuck out her thumb and said "take me" to the first chancer that drove by.
She didn't walk into the woods and succumb. Unless she walked eastward on Rte. 112, put on a hermetically sealed Haz-mat suit of some kind that befuddled a SAR dog's olfactory senses and then wandered into the wild and died.
If she left with a secret lover then there certainly were an awful lot of unnecessary shenanigans when you could have just parked in the wild, let the air out of a tire and walked away.
So she either left:
A) With a person(s) unknown to her who appeared trustworthy (tow truck “poser”, quasi-LE, Brad Pitt in a Boy Scout uniform)
B) With one or two people who masterfully and silently got her into their vehicle without anyone nearby hearing or seeing anything.
C) With someone who appeared non-threatening with whom she'd previously had a brief encounter with at a rest stop and who may have sabotaged MM and/or the Saturn.
D) With someone she went up to NH to meet, someone who she wanted to sort something out with. Maybe she has some potentially harmful information on that person. She tells that person in advance that she's going up to Bartlett and gives him her exact route. She happens to crash and he shows up at fortuitously the right moment. He says: let's discuss this "issue". MM gets in, they disagree and foul play is involved. In this scenario, it's possible that they decided to meet up for a second at a gas station or McDonald's so MM could show him her "evidence", ergo he knew which route she was taking...?

anything is possible.
it is a mystery; still unsolved., no matter how artful the imaginings, or how reality-based the considerations.

Frostman wrote:

The Beast" (no, not Sasquatch)
Students at WPMA take basic training. How it stacks up to boot camp, I have no personal knowledge and I wasn't trying to backhandedly undermine what real-time soldiers have to face. Not in any way. I shouldn't even have to defend that but it bears mentioning because no matter how we all feel about war, none of us can deny the how overwhelmingly grateful we all are to those brave soldiers who risk their lives for all of us. Nuff said, let’s fuggedaboutit.
http://beastandwestpoint.blogspot.com/2008/10...
The point was that MM was not a silly girl who stuck out her thumb and said "take me" to the first chancer that drove by.
She didn't walk into the woods and succumb. Unless she walked eastward on Rte. 112, put on a hermetically sealed Haz-mat suit of some kind that befuddled a SAR dog's olfactory senses and then wandered into the wild and died.
If she left with a secret lover then there certainly were an awful lot of unnecessary shenanigans when you could have just parked in the wild, let the air out of a tire and walked away.
So she either left:
A) With a person(s) unknown to her who appeared trustworthy (tow truck “poser”, quasi-LE, Brad Pitt in a Boy Scout uniform)
B) With one or two people who masterfully and silently got her into their vehicle without anyone nearby hearing or seeing anything.
C) With someone who appeared non-threatening with whom she'd previously had a brief encounter with at a rest stop and who may have sabotaged MM and/or the Saturn.
D) With someone she went up to NH to meet, someone who she wanted to sort something out with. Maybe she has some potentially harmful information on that person. She tells that person in advance that she's going up to Bartlett and gives him her exact route. She happens to crash and he shows up at fortuitously the right moment. He says: let's discuss this "issue". MM gets in, they disagree and foul play is involved. In this scenario, it's possible that they decided to meet up for a second at a gas station or McDonald's so MM could show him her "evidence", ergo he knew which route she was taking...?

What strikes me as extremely odd is that Maura´s Saturn apparently (according to witness Mr M-tte) was being reversed/backed into a snowbank on Rte 112. This was being observed by Mr M-tte from his house nearby.
If this is indeed correct, there is no way that this was an "ordinary" spinning-out accident at the WB curve.
The reversing/backing-up exercise reeks of something else, but what exactly?
If Maura (or whoever the driver of the Saturn was) had spun around at the WB curve going east, I just don´t see any reason whatsoever why or how the Saturn was being observed while reversing into a snowbank.
The whole scenario doesn´t pan out and is indeed very odd, to say the least.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
Good article and great picture for mcsmom to see the actual location of Old Peters Rd. The W's house is across from the barn just outside of the picture , The curve showing is their lawn.
Under the yellow sign with the two arrows you can see a plowed out area between the snow bank. That is OPR. It's not past the house but across the road from it and if Mcsmom thinks a car can be pushed or slide straight out of that road and with hardly any steering make it's way up the road on 112 then I would say that she and not me is the disoriented one. Even if you don't want to believe me pictures don't lie.

First, yes I've been there many times. Try coming from the East as I explained to you. Second, the year 2004 the snowbank to the entrance of OPR was pushed much further back, making what I am explaining highly possible. It fits with the Westmans claiming they did not see any headlights.

Third, why is this such an issue with you?

Bumping for Maura wrote:

<quoted text>
What strikes me as extremely odd is that Maura´s Saturn apparently (according to witness Mr M-tte) was being reversed/backed into a snowbank on Rte 112. This was being observed by Mr M-tte from his house nearby.
If this is indeed correct, there is no way that this was an "ordinary" spinning-out accident at the WB curve.
The reversing/backing-up exercise reeks of something else, but what exactly?
If Maura (or whoever the driver of the Saturn was) had spun around at the WB curve going east, I just don´t see any reason whatsoever why or how the Saturn was being observed while reversing into a snowbank.
The whole scenario doesn´t pan out and is indeed very odd, to say the least.

To me it doesn't seem particularly odd, because if the car ended up with its nose sticking out into the oncoming lane, one would naturally back it up and straighten it out on the side of the road to get it out of the driving lane. And supposedly it was drive-able according to Maura's father. But then why did she abandon it? If she backed it up, she must have known it was drive-able. So then I have to question whether the witness actually saw it being backed up. Surely if Maura realized she could back the car, that it was drive-able, she would not have walked away from it.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

<quoted text>
What strikes me as extremely odd is that Maura´s Saturn apparently (according to witness Mr M-tte) was being reversed/backed into a snowbank on Rte 112. This was being observed by Mr M-tte from his house nearby.
If this is indeed correct, there is no way that this was an "ordinary" spinning-out accident at the WB curve.
The reversing/backing-up exercise reeks of something else, but what exactly?
If Maura (or whoever the driver of the Saturn was) had spun around at the WB curve going east, I just don´t see any reason whatsoever why or how the Saturn was being observed while reversing into a snowbank.
The whole scenario doesn´t pan out and is indeed very odd, to say the least.

Maybe maura was trying to get the car dislodged by rocking the car from forward to reverse and then put the car into neutral when the SBD arrived

Beagle wrote,
"Now, how many cars are stolen, their drivers killed by the thief, the body dumped, and the car driven to where it was abandoned? A few, at least. Maybe about the same number as those who disappear from their cars never to be found again?"

Beagle,
Do you have any thoughts, opinion about the distance Pamela Webb's body was found (off Route 3, Franconia) from where her truck had been left? A few of these other cases where bodies have been found in area of White Mountains and especially dumped here and there off I-91 have made me question that if a serial exist (possibly more than one!), he may live somewhere midway(?) in those areas. To transport Pamela Webb from border area of ME/NH, all that distance seems as though he'd dropped her off enroute home. If a serial killer exists from various details regarding a lot of the disappearances, suspicious deaths and murders, it seems as though he may be living somewhere in that area. Not only the mountain area but all of the acreage (sparsely populated) around the Fairlee VT would seem as likely places for a lot of reasons to leave bodies. He's using I-91, I-93, Route 302, etc and seems very familiar with Grafton County, Coos County, etc. Based on disappearances, in the 1980's especially he was around Claremont area a lot.

aftermath wrote:

Beagle wrote,
"Now, how many cars are stolen, their drivers killed by the thief, the body dumped, and the car driven to where it was abandoned? A few, at least. Maybe about the same number as those who disappear from their cars never to be found again?"
Beagle,
Do you have any thoughts, opinion about the distance Pamela Webb's body was found (off Route 3, Franconia) from where her truck had been left? A few of these other cases where bodies have been found in area of White Mountains and especially dumped here and there off I-91 have made me question that if a serial exist (possibly more than one!), he may live somewhere midway(?) in those areas. To transport Pamela Webb from border area of ME/NH, all that distance seems as though he'd dropped her off enroute home. If a serial killer exists from various details regarding a lot of the disappearances, suspicious deaths and murders, it seems as though he may be living somewhere in that area. Not only the mountain area but all of the acreage (sparsely populated) around the Fairlee VT would seem as likely places for a lot of reasons to leave bodies. He's using I-91, I-93, Route 302, etc and seems very familiar with Grafton County, Coos County, etc. Based on disappearances, in the 1980's especially he was around Claremont area a lot.

back to serial killing; by flogging us almost to death, some will still not believe "he" exists, except in your imagination. less likely, that "he" would come upon MM.

why not take it back to Amherst? figure out why she left her family, friends and academic environment to set out on a sudden, unexplained journey. and lie to do so. what or who was she hiding?

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
Maybe maura was trying to get the car dislodged by rocking the car from forward to reverse and then put the car into neutral when the SBD arrived

That's exactly what someone would do if they were stuck. We've all tried that. Go forward... put something under a tire so it will catch. Go backwards. Look in the trunk again for a piece of rug or cardboard. Could explain the in and out of the trunk activity.

Frostman wrote:

We live in a metropolitan area where all the tow truck drivers listen to the scanners. If you even have a minor fender bender and it goes out over the airwaves at least half a dozen tow trucks show up jockeying for position.
So maybe... A magnetic sign is placed on the "tow truck" door... Instant credibility with MM = no struggle. That's why she might have gotten in the truck. Except the driver bolts off and doesn't hook up the Saturn...
Revenge of the wobble doll heads -- a movie coming to theaters soon. Pass the popcorn.

Frostman,
Maitland's car was positioned into the building as though it had been hurriedly dropped off there. Gear positioned in nuetral had been winched onto a flatbed truck, delivered to the abandoned homestead where it was later found, and, still in neutral allowed to roll off the back of the truck. This is why it rolled out-of
control and the back of the car crashed into the building. I saw tv program where her mother mentions she and Brianna had been shopping earlier that day and Brianna had left the store (her mother stated it looked as though Brianna had seen someone she knew???? outside and left the store). When Brianna and her mother spoke afterward, her mother said Brianna appeared to be upset about something, she noticed Brianna's mood seemed different. If aware Brianna was working, possibly an acquaintance had hit her up for money in the parking lot? Maybe Brianna told the person something like, I don't have any money on me right now but I'm getting paid today. This individual may have climbed into the back of Brianna's car (believing she'd cashed her paycheck; this person thought he'd take all of the money), when nearing the abandoned house area told her to back into the driveway and attempted to strangle Brianna... She put up a struggle to survive and in doing so foot accidentally pressed accelerator and at high speed car was backed into building. She may have even intentionally attempted to crash the car to make the person cease the attack. A couple of possibilities. I did not think about this second possibility until I heard Brianna's mom describe the strange occurence that took place earlier while they'd been shopping.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Yep. I still don't know why no one is reading the officers excellent, detailed report. It's all in there. If someone needs to see it I can probably set it up so it can be reviewed. It was written by a trained observer, when the accident occurred. Not hours, not day, not weeks later. But at the time it occurred. It is very useful to read what someone who was on the scene at the time the accident occurred had to write. Its almost like hearing a trained professional dictate what he saw. Oh, wait a minute. It was a trained professional that wrote the report. No need to guess about what happened. What someone an hour or day or week thinks happened. There was a trained professional on scene that wrote it all down.
READ THE REPORT! She crashed into the trees causing damage to the vehicle, setting off the airbags which caused the damage to the windshield and damage to the hood. No trailer hitches, no cars dropped off by transferring flatbeds or UFO's or Maura lookalikes or convoys of vehicles to whisk Maura away from the staged scene. A simple drunk college student who didn't want to stick around for a DUI after crashing her car. What happened after she ran away, is anyone's guess. Occam can be your friend, if you will let him.
Bill

Bill, Bill, Bill,
First of all Maura was not "simple." She was a highly intelligent, resourceful young woman. That alone should cause anyone attempting to determine what happened to her that evening to at least CONSIDER she was abducted by someone we might not even fathom to have ill intentions. Youthfulness, impersonating someone..who knows. The abductor was in possession of something which took the entire situation to another level, beyond where Maura may have let her guard down, not even thinking in terms that she was in an unsafe situation. No one heard screaming....no sign of a struggle, nothing. She entered the vehicle of someone she believed trustworthy. She was not on the defensive and may not have been until some distance out of the area when she had become aware that something was not quite right about the white knight who was seated at the wheel. Or maybe it was when he left I-91 and pulled off onto secondary roads, then roads less accessible, possible down in the Fairlee VT area. If he knew police would be at the scene, it's doubtful he would have attempted to take her somewhere in the Route 112,Franconia area, etc. I always keep returning to all of that acreage at Fairlee, a lot of it is fairly remote but much of it is accessible...and a short distance from I-91. She may have been alert for much of the ride or she may have been rendered unconscious.

any one else notice that Fairly vermont has been brought up from time to time as a possible dumping spot? Fairly is 25-30 miles away. There are many small towns with lakes in ponds in nh and vermont.I just find it interesting. Just and observation.

Does someone know something and they want things to come to an end? fill in the blanks are needed to follow along.

aftermath wrote:

<quoted text>
The abductor was in possession of something which took the entire situation to another level, beyond where Maura may have let her guard down, not even thinking in terms that she was in an unsafe situation.

She entered the vehicle of someone she believed trustworthy.

neither of these declarative statements are fact-based or verified, though highly imaginative.

there is no physical evidence of or witness to an abduction.

post 2524 anything look similiar there?

mcsmom wrote:

<quoted text>
First, yes I've been there many times. Try coming from the East as I explained to you. Second, the year 2004 the snowbank to the entrance of OPR was pushed much further back, making what I am explaining highly possible. It fits with the Westmans claiming they did not see any headlights.
Third, why is this such an issue with you?

The only issue I have is that it's BS. It doesn't matter if you
are heading east or west, OPR is still almost directly across the road from their kitchen windows. If you want to argue about 2 feet this way or 1 foot that way then find someone else to argue with.
And another thing you've said that IMO makes no sense, if the car was being pushed backwards up 112 from OPR as you said the headlights would have been shining toward the house so how does that fit a claim of them not seeing any headlights?
You never answered my question about why after almost 8 years you are just now bringing this story up about OPR.
I'm still wondering why all the red herrings keep getting thrown out even after all this time. I don't get it.
I'm going by OPR tomorrow so I'll be sure to look and make sure the plow trucks did'nt move the road up a couple hundred feet.

jwb wrote:

any one else notice that Fairly vermont has been brought up from time to time as a possible dumping spot? Fairly is 25-30 miles away. There are many small towns with lakes in ponds in nh and vermont.I just find it interesting. Just and observation.

Yes and I've questioned it before. Also notice that aftermath and rozshoem have the same address under their names.
I also found the flat tire post interesting since it was brought up again recently by I believe Columbo. Seems Columbo knows one or more of these people from what I gathered from a post of his.
IMO I think we're dealing with one person with different monikers.
Columbo/Beagle/aftermath/rozsh oem??? And maybe more.

jwb wrote:

post 2524 anything look similiar there?

Oh yeah. Including the addresses.