Maura Murray

Snowy wrote:

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again, your experience is quite reliable; i believe you, and the others who are familiar with the wooded NH environment. i've changed the view i once held which, like jwb, was that if she entered the woods, she'd have been found by now. clearly, the ravages of animals would alter that circumstance.
Scarinza insists the timely search was thorough, and as you say, it is unknown whether she might have entered the woods in another location away from where her car was found.

Snowy,
If the supposed sighting of a running person (possibly Maura) by the contractor RF some five miles east of the WB curve is indeed correct, then it´s pretty unlikely that that area has even been searched at all.
Does anyone here know whether the search efforts ever covered the Rte112-Rte 116 concurrency area in the Easton area?
Thanks.

NHwoodshome wrote:

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I find three statements ominous: Maura " a death in the family " Fred " I hope she didn't do the Squaw walk " Fred " when I'm no use anymore I'm going to the top of the mountain with a bottle and end it all " not verbatim but it amounts to what he said. Maura could have tried to or did get to the top of a hill or mountain to carry out Fred's death wish. And then we have Not without peril.
I think one thing is being overlooked, IF and LIKELY she was suffering from hypothermia ALL logic is out the window. These people often disrobe even though their core temperature is dropping to a critical level. They become delusional and the fact she was wearing sneakers would have had likely ZERO bearing on her thought process and pain.
AS far as distance, I hike daily ( I'm retired ) and 1/4 to 1/2 mile in terrain can be covered in 10-20 minutes easily in many cases.
Here are the critical facts:
1. We have NO starting point, not even sure what road she may have cut into the woods from.
2. Thick woods, steep terrain that most people avoid year round.
3. As time progresses less and less evidence to be found due to decomposition and clothing rotting and being dragged of by rodents or other animals. The only solid things would be cell phone and empty bottles etc. All of these could easily be under the fallen leaves from the years transpired.
4. As I have stated due to statements made by Maura, her actions, her state of mind her trip was likely one of a major decision, life or death and her last accident sealed the deal. Alcohol lowers ones rational thinking combined with hypothermia she may have still been contemplating when mother nature made the decision for her.

please accept a compliment from a long-time reader here....you are an incredibly insightful contributor with a logical mind. you grasp both the details and the overview. your first paragraph brings together very important information about how MM might have perceived her world via her father's beliefs. and we know she had a close relationship with him.
your reliably helpful posts add a welcome dimension...and put our degrees in psychology to shame!! lol

NHwoodshome wrote:

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I have to agree with former LE, Maura ran off without notifying anyone in a vehicle that wasn't running properly. Maura bought Alcohol, and Tylenol PM. Maura had at least one emotional outburst, she wrecked Dad's car. She wasn't rational when she refused Butch calling for help at the accident scene in NH and left the scene.
People's actions and statements are what a psychologist uses to judge a persons frame of mind. I think Maura was a train wreck looking for a place to happen, and it happened in Swiftwater. I think she was taking a hiatus to evaluate her life and perhaps ending her life. Suicide is the second leading cause of death among college students. One sign is excessive drinking due to depression which only compounds the issue. Maura was said to have eating disorder issues, another sign.
She was an overachiever who had several failures, her relationship seemed to be unraveling, guilt from possibly cheating on Bill, feeling trapped in her relationship, bounced from West Point, drinking, wrecked Dads car, got caught fraudulently using a credit card and I am sure there are other things I missed or are unknown to us.

an added dimension to all of the above would be whether another relationship, romantic or social, loving/abusive, might have also complicated her life. in any event, there are certainly many young adults suffering through some or all of the issues you mention above. many certainly find resolution and survive, but in this instance, we are paying close attention because she has disappeared.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

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Snowy,
If the supposed sighting of a running person (possibly Maura) by the contractor RF some five miles east of the WB curve is indeed correct, then it´s pretty unlikely that that area has even been searched at all.
Does anyone here know whether the search efforts ever covered the Rte112-Rte 116 concurrency area in the Easton area?
Thanks.

yes; as NHWoodsman says, searching a wooded environment is a challenge in and of itself, but so many factors, to include where she might have entered the woods and her physical condition, suspected to be altered by alcohol and/or hypothermia, make it a needle in a haystack. it seems, sorry to say, she could have expired in those woods, and may never be recovered.
WTF/Bill has also been advising us of this information all along....for many years, in fact. i've been one of the obtuse city/suburb slickers.

Advocate wrote:

At some point in the past, it was said that.......

That doesn't seem like a great basis for discussing a valid theory....

Sounda an awful lot like "Once upon a time..."

Bumping for Maura wrote:

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Perhaps he was the man from New City,NY, that Maura apparently had been calling on numerous occasions prior to her disappearance from UMass Amherst.
Any ideas, anyone?

"Just me" said she had the phone numbers written down in a book somewhere. Perhaps she'll be able shed some light on the New City number.

Advocate wrote:

At some point in the past, it was said that Maura was wearing "flats" that day/night. Don't know how that was determined, but I think it came from family. Assuming the flats were slip-ons, like loafers, how likely would it be that if Maura did enter the woods, she got very far? I'm thinking about roughly 2 feet of old snow that would hide fallen branches, clumps of vines, drops and small hollows, large rocks and etc. Seems to me that even a tipsy panicked person would not get far in such terrain even in hiking boots without taking a sobering tumble. In the dark too. I'm speaking here from personal experience in such conditions ... What do you knowledgeable guys think?

This is what baffles me, in some articles it was 2 feet of snow, others there were places with bare ground and little snow. I do know that often open ares receive more snow than thick dense pine covered woods, but reports of the snow depth seem to vary.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

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looking4amoose,
Possibly.
However, I do tend to think that Fred Murray would likely have been recognised by Mr & Mr M-n at the Swiftwater store.
Probably not Fred Murray, IMHO.

Although you make a logical point, I am up there every other weekend, and a full week each season since 3/2004, yet I would not recognize him if I saw him. I've never seen him in person--only pictures.

NHwoodshome wrote:

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I have to agree with former LE, Maura ran off without notifying anyone in a vehicle that wasn't running properly. Maura bought Alcohol, and Tylenol PM. Maura had at least one emotional outburst, she wrecked Dad's car. She wasn't rational when she refused Butch calling for help at the accident scene in NH and left the scene.
People's actions and statements are what a psychologist uses to judge a persons frame of mind. I think Maura was a train wreck looking for a place to happen, and it happened in Swiftwater. I think she was taking a hiatus to evaluate her life and perhaps ending her life. Suicide is the second leading cause of death among college students. One sign is excessive drinking due to depression which only compounds the issue. Maura was said to have eating disorder issues, another sign.
She was an overachiever who had several failures, her relationship seemed to be unraveling, guilt from possibly cheating on Bill, feeling trapped in her relationship, bounced from West Point, drinking, wrecked Dads car, got caught fraudulently using a credit card and I am sure there are other things I missed or are unknown to us.

NHwoodshome,
True, she had achieved a great deal....but she did not have "several" failures. She did have an accident with her father's car according to reports, but much of what you state is not backed by any evidence....most of it is rumor. We do not know her state of mind when SBD spoke with her. No way to determine whether or not she was thinking rationally. If she knew an acquaintance would soon be coming by...it might have been rational for her to reject SBD's offer of assistance. If she was totally alone, had no one coming by, she might have used better judgment and accepted SBD's offer of assistance. Someone may have picked her up, she may have been hit by a vehicle who failed to see her running along the highway in the darkness. If hit by a vehicle, her body may have been tossed through the air, landed in back of a snowbank....snowplow during night may have winged back snowbank, etc, covering her body. If she were a considerable distance from accident site, possibility of anyone finding her might have been zero. Many things could have happened to her. Drinking to excess? We have no way of determining that. Depressed? No way of determining that. Stressed? This is more likely as mid-year a lot of students are stressed out, tired, emotionally fragile to some degree at times, etc.

And.......aftermath chimes in to deny and deflect, shocking development I know.

I like the flying through the air into a snowbank theory, thats a gem.

I also like the "its perfectly normal to crash your car, refuse help, beg passerby NOT to call police, then flee the scene on foot".... Yup thats pretty normal behavior.

You say, "but much of what you state is not backed by any evidence....most of it is rumor. "

What parts of this are rumor?

She left without telling anyone where she was going, lied to her friends about why she was leaving, drove several hundred miles North in the winter in a car that was mechanically unreliable, bought large amounts of alcohol, crashed her car into a snowbank, which caused her to spill at least some alcohol on the inside of the car, she refused help from a passerby, lied to him about calling AAA, begged him NOT to call police, and then fled on foot from the scene of her accident at night in the middle of nowhere in wintertime in an area she was unfamilar with??

Sooooo, which parts of that are "rumor"?

haha I don't know who you are man, but you have no credibility and your statements are assinine at best. KEEP IT UP!!

jwb wrote:
"what are your facts about maura going into the woods to commit suicide?"

jwb,
You're correct. The problem with the entire case is that few, if any "facts" exist. A certain percentage of people believe something happened TO Maura. Then there is the crowd who keeps attempting to push the troubled, runaway,suicidal, drunken, pregnant, cheating, and failure of a person scenario. A "pregnant" individual, who takes her birth control with her....on a trip to commit suicide? Runaway but not fast enough that it prevented her from phoning work supervisors and professors to let them know about a death in the family. Maybe people continue to use birth control not only while pregnant but in an afterlife? Talk about insanity at its finest. Maybe it's a good thing that more evidence did not exist....especially when considering how minimal evidence has been interpreted. Good grief.

FrmLE wrote:

And.......aftermath chimes in to deny and deflect, shocking development I know.
I like the flying through the air into a snowbank theory, thats a gem.
I also like the "its perfectly normal to crash your car, refuse help, beg passerby NOT to call police, then flee the scene on foot".... Yup thats pretty normal behavior.
You say, "but much of what you state is not backed by any evidence....most of it is rumor. "
What parts of this are rumor?
She left without telling anyone where she was going, lied to her friends about why she was leaving, drove several hundred miles North in the winter in a car that was mechanically unreliable, bought large amounts of alcohol, crashed her car into a snowbank, which caused her to spill at least some alcohol on the inside of the car, she refused help from a passerby, lied to him about calling AAA, begged him NOT to call police, and then fled on foot from the scene of her accident at night in the middle of nowhere in wintertime in an area she was unfamilar with??
Sooooo, which parts of that are "rumor"?
haha I don't know who you are man, but you have no credibility and your statements are assinine at best. KEEP IT UP!!

I like you. Your reason and logic are spot on.

aftermath wrote:

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NHwoodshome,
True, she had achieved a great deal....but she did not have "several" failures. She did have an accident with her father's car according to reports, but much of what you state is not backed by any evidence....most of it is rumor. We do not know her state of mind when SBD spoke with her. No way to determine whether or not she was thinking rationally..... Drinking to excess? We have no way of determining that. Depressed? No way of determining that. Stressed? This is more likely as mid-year a lot of students are stressed out, tired, emotionally fragile to some degree at times, etc.

Agreed aftermath. It was an eloquently written postulation, but there are no facts to back up the theories put forward by HNwoodshome. Most of us, though, could learn something about his well constructed posts, myself included.

There WAS a starting point for the SAR dogs to pick up a scent (at the crash scene) and they did track that scent down 112 to BHR therefore leading LE to conclude she left in a vehicle. That's a well-known FACT, I believe.

If there was NO scent, a SAR dog might not go that far, they might arc out a bit and if they didn't hit on a scent then they might look to their handler for more guidance. But, only a professional SAR handler could properly comment on those probabilities.

Aftermath,
When people lose the plot they don't think rationally. There's no merit in any of your 'why did the take her birth control pills?' type questions.

As FrmLE so eloquently outlines, her behaviour around the time she disappeared was erratic and irrational. Who knows why she did anything? Whether she intended to take her life or was just running away? You're never going to find out and the likelihood is that the outcome for Maura was the same whichever action she had in mind,

Maybe people don't make a decision to end their life until just before they do? Maybe it is a mounting pressure that continues to build until the person can not fight it anymore?

Maybe something happens that tips the scale and they just give in?

If you had ANY CLUE about the causes of suicide and how emotionally unstable people act, you would see that her behavior is very consistant with people who make a suicide attempt. But you obviously don't have any experience or you would know this.

Ending ones life isn't like buying a house or a new refrigerator, very few people plan it out well in advance. It doesn't make sense, there is no real ryme or reason to it, people behave erratically and irrationally. Just like maura was doing, her erratic behavior does not mean that she killed herself, it does however give some indication of her state of mind.

That, combined with the other factors in this case make suicide the most likely possibility by far.

FrmLE wrote:

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Well Sir, lol, let me put it this way.... WRONG!
lol, again I have no idea where you get your info but after extensive review the windshield was in fact cracked by the airbag deployment and not by the head striking it.
Let me ask you this, just a question for all of you who have never been in an accident with airbag deployment.....
If the airbag did deploy in the accident, which is certainly did, how in the world can any person fit their head over top of the airbag and strike the windshield? The airbag deploys, inflates in a fraction of a second, and is literally a huge mesh barrier between the driver and the steering wheel. That is it's job, to prevent contact with the steering wheel.
So how can the airbag inflate and Mauras head go by the airbag, by the steering wheel and dashboard, and strike the windshield?
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

HOW?????????? Evidentally, it appears there has been a good deal of controversy regarding the exact number of accidents the Saturn had been involved in on Route 112 that evening. The report of a dark-colored car, driving away from an accident scene earlier that evening leaves a possibility the Saturn may have been involved in 2 accidents on Route 112. Some believe the damage to the car appeared to have occurred at some other time.....not at the site where SBD spoke with Maura. Possibly airbags deployed at time of first accident. One unique, area of concentric cracks positioned on windshield (above steering wheel). No similar damage to windshield on passenger side. Strong possibility of head injury. She had been involved in at least two accidents within a couple of days? Why would it be unreasonable to believe that the Saturn may have slide off Route 112 earlier that night? Especially when there was report of someone driving away from another accident scene earlier that night on Route 112 (someone in a dark car).

aftermath wrote:

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NHwoodshome,
True, she had achieved a great deal....but she did not have "several" failures. She did have an accident with her father's car according to reports, but much of what you state is not backed by any evidence....most of it is rumor. We do not know her state of mind when SBD spoke with her. No way to determine whether or not she was thinking rationally. If she knew an acquaintance would soon be coming by...it might have been rational for her to reject SBD's offer of assistance. If she was totally alone, had no one coming by, she might have used better judgment and accepted SBD's offer of assistance. Someone may have picked her up, she may have been hit by a vehicle who failed to see her running along the highway in the darkness. If hit by a vehicle, her body may have been tossed through the air, landed in back of a snowbank....snowplow during night may have winged back snowbank, etc, covering her body. If she were a considerable distance from accident site, possibility of anyone finding her might have been zero. Many things could have happened to her. Drinking to excess? We have no way of determining that. Depressed? No way of determining that. Stressed? This is more likely as mid-year a lot of students are stressed out, tired, emotionally fragile to some degree at times, etc.

i've decided not to address the points you attempt to make in this post, and defer, instead to NHWoods.. a well written and logical summary to which you replied.
but, seriously...that a vehicle or plow may have hit her, and she was flung into a snowbank without evidence?
some on this forum can attest to life-as-usual by local residents after MM's disappearance....but with increased awareness, vigilance, and notice of anything/anyone unusual. this, along with awareness of animal life (wildlife and MA traffic...students, skiers and visitors). evidence of body on a snowbank wouldn't be missed.
pure freakin' fantasy.

aftermath wrote:

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HOW?????????? Evidentally, it appears there has been a good deal of controversy regarding the exact number of accidents the Saturn had been involved in on Route 112 that evening.

The only controversy is whats going on inside that head of yours.

FrmLE wrote:
"She left without telling anyone where she was going, lied to her friends about why she was leaving, drove several hundred miles North in the winter in a car that was mechanically unreliable, bought large amounts of alcohol, crashed her car into a snowbank, which caused her to spill at least some alcohol on the inside of the car, she refused help from a passerby, lied to him about calling AAA, begged him NOT to call police, and then fled on foot from the scene of her accident at night in the middle of nowhere in wintertime in an area she was unfamilar with??"

FrmLE,
First of all, Maura did not lie to her friends. Actually she did not tell friends that she was going anywhere. This is not a lie. Fact is, she told them nothing. This is not considered a lie. She did not drive "several 100 miles" north. She drove approximately 130 miles north. True, the Saturn was not mechanically reliable, but she had AAA card? She may have had an acquaintance following in separate vehicle...???? Recall the "red truck" with MA license plates that was loitering in the area? She did not "beg" SBD not to call anyone. According to SBD, he said she had told him that she'd already called AAA. Reports say she did not call AAA. Did she lie because she wanted to avoid a DUI/DWI? Not necessarily. Maybe she did not want anyone to appear on scene for some other reason. We do not know if she "fled" on foot. Dog lost scent at 4 corners. She may have willingly accepted a ride with someone most of us would trust? Maybe he was youthful looking, clean-cut appearance. Smiling, friendly. He may have "fled" from the area with her in his car. She might have initially believed that she was safe. Thousand of scenarios.

FrmLE wrote:

haha I don't know who you are man, but you have no credibility and your statements are assinine at best. KEEP IT UP!!

welcome to MM central - we're all growing older here by the day and the years....

It seems like I've been here before

But I sure can't remember when

And I got this funny feelin'

That we'll all get together again

There are no straight lines make up my life

And all my roads have bends

There's no clear cut beginnings

And so far no dead ends

********
The season's spinning round again

The years keep rollin' by ~Harry Chapin