Maura Murray

Tom wrote:

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Exactly the point she's gone and I think her family should now suffer the consequences that so many other innocent people in NH have.
I blame Maura for her actions and blame her parents for the wasting of others times they will never get back.

And I blame MMM and Helena Murray and her coven of witches for the untimely death of SBD, the Good Samaritan, the only person to actually stop and try to help Maura that night. He was in good health, he was not old by today's standards (I believe he was 62), in robust good health, a little overweight perhaps and he was hounded to death. He moved to Florida to get away from it all and then they sent Johnny Psycho, Weeper (sent by Fred) and God knows who else to hound him and harass him to death. Amongst his last words: I wish I had never stopped to help her.

Tom wrote:

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Only in America if you call a spade a spade it is evil.

Brilliant !

Tom wrote:

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Well at some point he has to move on. He can't be pressing the issue and then expect another girl to date him and want to get married. He has to move on, or show others he has.

Oh I agree....but it was like 5 years ago!

Snowy wrote:

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you bet it's conflicting.
Maura has been stripped of her humanity by people who act against others in her name.
same people that haven't met her and don't know her.
i'm glad Wowzer feels such warmth and sympathy for Maura.
i feel more for the SBD who was hounded and harassed.

Respectfully, Snowy, I think it's a bit bogus to feel more sympathy for the SBD. I Do think he was wrongfully maligned on the forums and castigated for his good deed, and that's awful. Truly. Some people still theorize about his involvement long after his death, and put plainly, that sucks. However, Maura is a missing person, who, IMO, vanished into the woods and died andover some unfortunate decisions and stupid moves on her part. However, she was a young college girl whose mother was sick, whose father is, IMO, a bit on the controlling and enabling-alcoholically side....a brother who was not from the same father although her parents were married, etc., et. al. I think I feel a bit more sorry for her....she lost her life, and although the SBD was treated awfully, he went on to live another day (and decades past Maura age-wise). I'm not justifying what anyone did to him, but it's unfair IMO to malign Maura, or to snip at Wowzer Sarcastically for her "warmth and sympathy" for Maura.
NOTE: I do factor in the previous history between yourself and Wowzer, because I tend to enjoy your posts and found this one a bit out of character, just my two cents.

To expound upon my previous post......I am in no way condoning Maura's behavior, but i do think her messed up family life and possible eating disorder contributed to her criminal behavior......and addiction, in all it's ugly forms, Is a hideous thing. I don't think she was the angel Fred wanted us to think she was....but iI do think he also required, during her lifetime, that Maura put forth the same happy face we all heard about so consistently. That could contribute to her poor decisions, and while I don't excuse it, I wish to God she had had the opportunity to make some good decisions and rectify the wrongs she had committed. People come through from DUIs and theft and can, especially in the case of addiction, become excelllent members of society, I wish she had gotten the chance to grow into an adult.

whitenoise wrote:

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Oh! My goodness gracious! Such primitive thinking you demonstrate. Not to say hyperbolic. You are demonstrating the thought processes of a child. Grow up. Life is not all black and white. You are saying if you do not love (how do you love someone you don't even know?) Maura and see her as the All American Girl then you hate her??? How about trying for nuanced thinking? If you criticize someone that doesn't mean you hate them.
As for those who think Maura deserves a second chance, she's had her second chance and screwed it up big time.
First chance: Thrown out of West Point for credit card fraud.
Second chance: Maura was given the opportunity for a fresh start at UMASS. And what does she do? She demonstrates that she has learned nothing from her West Point experience. She does identical credit card fraud to what she did at West Point.

Forgive me if I am attributing this to the wrong person, but I thought you had some addiction training (could be wrong on what poster that is). I'm not condoning what she did, but addicts do whatever they have to do, to get their fix....if its a bulimic, that's food, alcoholic, alcohol, etc,
In my opinion, although yes, she had her second chance, addiction is a powerful thing and difficult to overcome alone, without some support network and/or therapy. I think Maura was hiding her addiction, and although she needed to face the consequences of her actions, the mere fact that LE was going to drop the charges contingent upon no further criminal action, leads me to believe she was a good candidate for yet ANOTHER chance. LE is not notoriously forgiving in most instances of theft, and I think that their decision may have been based upon seeing a girl in need of help.
If it is ever confirmed that Fred did know about the CC fraud, and took no action, I'll be highly disappointed at how much she was let down by her family....that's major enabling behavior for a daughter known to have a prior bulimic issue. Just my two cents, mean mo offense. I value everyone's thoughts here.

simply caustic wrote:

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Respectfully, Snowy, I think it's a bit bogus to feel more sympathy for the SBD. I Do think he was wrongfully maligned on the forums and castigated for his good deed, and that's awful. Truly. Some people still theorize about his involvement long after his death, and put plainly, that sucks. However, Maura is a missing person, who, IMO, vanished into the woods and died andover some unfortunate decisions and stupid moves on her part. However, she was a young college girl whose mother was sick, whose father is, IMO, a bit on the controlling and enabling-alcoholically side....a brother who was not from the same father although her parents were married, etc., et. al. I think I feel a bit more sorry for her....she lost her life, and although the SBD was treated awfully, he went on to live another day (and decades past Maura age-wise). I'm not justifying what anyone did to him, but it's unfair IMO to malign Maura, or to snip at Wowzer Sarcastically for her "warmth and sympathy" for Maura.
NOTE: I do factor in the previous history between yourself and Wowzer, because I tend to enjoy your posts and found this one a bit out of character, just my two cents.

Since Snowy has signed off (hopefully not forever) I feel that I should defend his comment. I think he says he feels bad for Mr. Atwood because he stopped and tried to do good. He couldn't control the outcome. Maura clearly could have controlled the outcomes, by exhibiting better decision making skills.

Tom wrote:

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Since Snowy has signed off (hopefully not forever) I feel that I should defend his comment. I think he says he feels bad for Mr. Atwood because he stopped and tried to do good. He couldn't control the outcome. Maura clearly could have controlled the outcomes, by exhibiting better decision making skills.

I do appreciate where you are coming from. I just wince when I hear someone say that Maura's disappearance is what killed the SBD...I hate to even use his name, because I feel it's been abused in this whole mess...I don't deny that the stress could have contributed in a minute fashion, but to say it killed him when he moved clear across the country and, from what I've read, did not follow any of these forums...well, I think it's a bit over the top. If the PI did go bother him in Florida, that's understandably upsetting and invasive, but hardly a stressor contributing to death.

All that being said, he was treated unfairly and I hope his reputation is only enhanced now by those wo realize he was truly a good Samaritan, nothing nefarious about it.

simply caustic wrote:

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Forgive me if I am attributing this to the wrong person, but I thought you had some addiction training (could be wrong on what poster that is). I'm not condoning what she did, but addicts do whatever they have to do, to get their fix....if its a bulimic, that's food, alcoholic, alcohol, etc,
In my opinion, although yes, she had her second chance, addiction is a powerful thing and difficult to overcome alone, without some support network and/or therapy. I think Maura was hiding her addiction, and although she needed to face the consequences of her actions, the mere fact that LE was going to drop the charges contingent upon no further criminal action, leads me to believe she was a good candidate for yet ANOTHER chance. LE is not notoriously forgiving in most instances of theft, and I think that their decision may have been based upon seeing a girl in need of help.
If it is ever confirmed that Fred did know about the CC fraud, and took no action, I'll be highly disappointed at how much she was let down by her family....that's major enabling behavior for a daughter known to have a prior bulimic issue. Just my two cents, mean mo offense. I value everyone's thoughts here.

This was a thread created to find Maura Murray, not make excuses for her behaivor. It seems the more negative things come out the more excuses we make for her. I think everyone was so attracted to this disappearance because she was the All American Girl. Fred Murray did a great job stealing our hearts and manipultaing this from us. I think a lot of people feel dupped and sad over the events. Now wether we like it or not is a girl who went missing running from a crime. This isn't the innocent girl we all thought she was.

I think now that the cat is out of the bag and people are starting to realize that she had some issues perhaps someone will come out and give us the final piece of the puzzle. Why did she go to her father's hotel room at 2:30AM and then call Bill about 2 hours later. what was so important.

whitenoise wrote:

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And I blame MMM and Helena Murray and her coven of witches for the untimely death of SBD, the Good Samaritan, the only person to actually stop and try to help Maura that night. He was in good health, he was not old by today's standards (I believe he was 62), in robust good health, a little overweight perhaps and he was hounded to death. He moved to Florida to get away from it all and then they sent Johnny Psycho, Weeper (sent by Fred) and God knows who else to hound him and harass him to death. Amongst his last words: I wish I had never stopped to help her.

Your popularity amazing me. Absolutely remarkable. In order to win Rome you must win the mob. Maximus Maximus. It was messed up the way he was treated.

I posted over on Renner's blog regarding the criminal charges Maura was facing, and the likely outcome. I wonder if anyone here has any thoughts on that? She was not only eligible for a diversion program, she was an ideal candidate (first offense.) I do believe that she was asked to leave West Point as a result of CC fraud, but I firmly believe she was not indicted for this offense. Had she been indicted, even if the charges were dropped or "nolle prosequi" OR if she got probation/court supervision/conditional discharge.....she would NEVER have been offered the 3 month deal she was offered for the UMASS CC fraud. It's absolutely unheard of for a prosecutor to offer to nolle prosequi the charges for someone who has a prior conviction/judgment rendered, sentence suspended. So although I believe the West Point fraud occurred,(can't recall who convinced me with their posts...whitewash or whiston I think)....I do not believe there were resulting criminal charges.

However, that could merely be a matter of the State declining to prosecute based upon lack of evidence, or the Complaintant refused to sign the complaint.

hannah_b wrote:

I am at a loss why charges would be dropped in February if she didn´t screw up again.

Pre-trial probation?

Tom wrote:

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This was a thread created to find Maura Murray, not make excuses for her behaivor. It seems the more negative things come out the more excuses we make for her. I think everyone was so attracted to this disappearance because she was the All American Girl. Fred Murray did a great job stealing our hearts and manipultaing this from us. I think a lot of people feel dupped and sad over the events. Now wether we like it or not is a girl who went missing running from a crime. This isn't the innocent girl we all thought she was.
I think now that the cat is out of the bag and people are starting to realize that she had some issues perhaps someone will come out and give us the final piece of the puzzle. Why did she go to her father's hotel room at 2:30AM and then call Bill about 2 hours later. what was so important.

I was in no way condoning or excusing her behavior. Addiction is a REASON....not an excuse, trust me, I work in the legal system in Chicago, where we frequently are prosecuting habitual offenders who state that its not their fault....they are addicted. I find that a cop-out. However, I do think addiction at least EXPLAINS what she was doing, and that brings us a lot closer to the truth than the initial pretty picture we were painted.
Further, her father is curious to me in several respects....namely, I wonder just how much he was aware of regarding her potential addiction to food and alcohol. I wonder if he was aware of the CC fraud. It's my opinion that if he was aware of her spiraling out of control at UMASS and left her there, picking up fraud charges, binge eating, and abusing alcohol....well. I find that highly suspicious. She had a history of bulimia. He knew this. The fraud for food and alcohol abuse blow my mind in respect to....why would you buy her a new car and leave her there to fend for herself in the midst of a breakdown? Yank her arse outta school and get her into therapy or
Let her face the criminal charges and get back into school after she's stable enough to be on her own.

That being said, I have no proof that he knew about the CC fraud or current bulimia issue, were there one. But I wonder who posted her bond on the fraud charge...or did they give her a personal recognizance bond? Not sure if they are easy to get in Mass.

hannah_b wrote:

This was posted to topix in Sept 2009:
"I lived in Thoreau dormitory in Southwest in 2004 when Maura disappeared. Maura often worked security in my building and I would see her running on campus. Friends that lived on her floor in Kennedy told me that she allegedly suffered from a terrible case of bullimia and was stealing credit numbers from discarded takeout receipts left in the trash room. I heard this from people who were friends with people who had their cc numbers stolen. I believe the school was aware of the situation and it was said that Maura may have been facing disciplinary and/or criminal proceedings."
The reason Iam bringing this old post up is: this poster claims Maura had stolen cc numbers from several people, not just the girl Renner mentioned. Maybe there were more charges coming up and she knew it.

But how do you steal 16-digit credit card numbers if there are only the last four printed on the receipts? Maybe if you actually take the credit card in the first place, you might know the whole number, but I don't thing you'd get it from going through the trash looking for discarded receipts. If that's all there is to it, I'm charging my winter vacation by staying a block ahead of the trash truck this week.

In order to use the card, either Maura or someone else would have had to know the entire 16-digit series. Plus, possibly, the 3 or 4-digit series printed on the card's reverse side.

Tom wrote:

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Snowy I'd also like to make an apology to you. Over the last couple days you have been making a lot of references to "something happening at MA" Now I know most of what you were focusing on was the first crash, but apparently something did happen. I was giving you a lot of crap about it saying you were creating a conspiracy. I apogize. You were right about something happening.

Bet you still want to know what I was doing the night of 2/9/2004, don't you?

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>Pre-trial probation?

Usually, PTP is for a longer length of time....like six months to a year. Three months is not unheard of, though. However, if she DID get offered PTP I find it unlikely that her family was unaware, as she would have to report to the probation department for regular appointments, submit to alcohol and drug testing at the court's discretion, and there would have been at least one, if not more, court dates she would have attended, in order for the Commonwealth to offer her this diversion program. Also, upon picking up any new criminal charge, her bond could and likely would be revoked, she would spend some time in the county lockup, and be out back on the court docket to face the charges...and no longer be allowed to participate in alternative programs such as probation.

She would have been screwed if she got a DUI. Utterly screwed. That makes me question by on earth she would take the chance of going to her Dads hotel so late at night, post-party, if only to avoid the Very appearance of impropriety, I'd not be driving that late.

Forget getting kicked out of school....if she was on pre trial probation, a DUI would necessarily mean a criminal conviction and a few weeks minimum in county (until arraignment on the new charges and the probation revocation for the initial charge.) I think you guys are on the right track here

How to get the last four digits of a credit card number.

http://www.stemkoski.com/how-to-get-the-last-...

Beagle wrote:

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But how do you steal 16-digit credit card numbers if there are only the last four printed on the receipts? Maybe if you actually take the credit card in the first place, you might know the whole number, but I don't thing you'd get it from going through the trash looking for discarded receipts. If that's all there is to it, I'm charging my winter vacation by staying a block ahead of the trash truck this week.
In order to use the card, either Maura or someone else would have had to know the entire 16-digit series. Plus, possibly, the 3 or 4-digit series printed on the card's reverse side.

No, in 2004 it was not legally required to only put the last four digits. That changed in or around 2005 / 2006...and the restaurant I worked at in college only required the full number and expiration date to run a credit card from 1999 through at least 05..no security code required. It was a major chain restaurant and the register system printed the full number on the customer copy of the receipt, but not the store copy. So, if the girl tossed out HER copy, it would have her full number...but on our system, for some reason, the exp. was not listed on receipt.

Also, when we took phone orders, we wrote out the cc.digits and exp. on the handwritten order sheet, which was stapled to the order when we delivered it. Someone coulda grabbed those, too.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>Bet you still want to know what I was doing the night of 2/9/2004, don't you?

I'd like to dismiss those charges if you'd let me.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

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Tom,
So you obviously are in the know as regards what happened to Maura after the accident on Rte 112.
You have quite clearly ruled out foul play in this context, judging by your comments.
The problem here is that whatever happened to Maura after her crash on Rte 112 constitutes as much a mystery now as before Mr Renner´s most recent revelations.
If I interpret your comments correctly, you are more or less saying that everybody should now give up searching for Maura and that whatever happened to her she brought upon herself, even though that "whatever" still might include any kind of possible foul play.

What he's saying is that she deserved it because her skirt was too short.