Maura Murray

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
Bill, please explain:
I thought you had said that LE was treating it as a another DUI Runaway at the beginning. What difference would it have made if Fred (assuming he knew) told LE that Maura was Bulimic and had charges of CC fraud against her three months prior.
What would LE have done differently? I am only trying to understand the connection.

I think that if it was clearer that she was having these problems and that a DUI might have really sunk her career. The police and the SAR teams would have taken the suicide theory as opposed to just a DUI runaway much more seriously and planned more searches and different methodology. I still don't think that Maura went up there to commit suicide. I have said for years that the accident might have been the tipping point that made her commit suicide and now we even have a lot more information that seems to indicate that such an accident could have been a real tipping point for her to consider suicide as an option. Considering all the other things, what her father said, what we know about the lie to get away, the credit card problems both at Amherst and the identical same rumored actions at West Point. Suicide would have been considered a much stronger likelihood.

In my opinion.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Never said any such thing. I have only gone by the report that the officer wrote and has been published.
Bill

Agreed. It was Wowzer who posted that.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the credit card theft seems hard to believe at face value. I just checked my records going back to Jan. 2001. Charge card receipts did in fact have only the last four digits printed on them, not the entire 16-digit sequence. That's almost three years before Maura was supposedly looking for discarded receipts.

Without the full 16 digit sequence, it would be kind of hard to charge something.

The credit card theft/bulimia story helps cement the image of a troubled young college student, one who would behave irrationally and ditch her car at the WB curve. But the story seems almost entirely based on Maura's access to all the information on a credit card that's needed to use it. Unless she had some other means of acquiring this information, the story, at least so far, does not stand up.

Was the full cc info skimmed? Was someone else involved? If Maura skimmed credit cards, which seems unlikely but possible, did she use an electronic skimming device?

Roughly a couple of years ago, Bill Belichick's daughter, a student at UMass, noticed fraudulent charges on her credit card. A local businessman was charged by police, who, instead of taking the criminal's photo at his home, actually arrested him and brought him to court for arraignment. The regular way.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>I have said for years that the accident might have been the tipping point that made her commit suicide and now we even have a lot more information that seems to indicate that such an accident could have been a real tipping point for her to consider suicide as an option.

Bill

You're right, the cc/bulimia story sounds great for placing Maura at the WB curve, but you might want to consistently apply your ever-present skepticism regarding sources of information. Renner's writing is sloppy and at least a few of his facts are wrong. Not to mention his questionable use of the WP persons.

Consider this wrote:

<quoted text>
Well if that's the case, someone is covering their tracks well. Accordint to the #'s provided by Topix there are 10,412 posts and yet you post is #10630....600 post difference!!

correct. That's how many are deleted.

Can anyone reliably provide Maura's date of birth, please? I would like to double-check something that might be very relevant. Thank you.

In the mean time, what are your thoughts on this version of Maura Murray?

http://results.beenverified.com/index.php...

Beagle wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but the credit card theft seems hard to believe at face value. I just checked my records going back to Jan. 2001. Charge card receipts did in fact have only the last four digits printed on them, not the entire 16-digit sequence. That's almost three years before Maura was supposedly looking for discarded receipts.
Without the full 16 digit sequence, it would be kind of hard to charge something.
The credit card theft/bulimia story helps cement the image of a troubled young college student, one who would behave irrationally and ditch her car at the WB curve. But the story seems almost entirely based on Maura's access to all the information on a credit card that's needed to use it. Unless she had some other means of acquiring this information, the story, at least so far, does not stand up.
Was the full cc info skimmed? Was someone else involved? If Maura skimmed credit cards, which seems unlikely but possible, did she use an electronic skimming device?
Roughly a couple of years ago, Bill Belichick's daughter, a student at UMass, noticed fraudulent charges on her credit card. A local businessman was charged by police, who, instead of taking the criminal's photo at his home, actually arrested him and brought him to court for arraignment. The regular way.

I agree Beagle, unless the receipt found in the trash was from a retailer using an older style or manual credit card processor that included all 16 numbers.

It all sounds so weird that they would take a photo at the dorm rather than at the police station. Maybe Maura was covering up for somebody else or for a larger scheme of events and she was the fall "guy".

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>
You're right, the cc/bulimia story sounds great for placing Maura at the WB curve, but you might want to consistently apply your ever-present skepticism regarding sources of information. Renner's writing is sloppy and at least a few of his facts are wrong. Not to mention his questionable use of the WP persons.

On this I will partially agree. I am putting faith in this because it isn't the first time we have heard it and it not the only school these rumors have floated around. As for the bulimia, I still consider the case still out on that. The credit card fiasco, I, personally, have a higher degree of confidence in.

Bill

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree Beagle, unless the receipt found in the trash was from a retailer using an older style or manual credit card processor that included all 16 numbers.
It all sounds so weird that they would take a photo at the dorm rather than at the police station. Maybe Maura was covering up for somebody else or for a larger scheme of events and she was the fall "guy".

She got caught in a sting there is no way you can set yourself up and get caught in sting. She order the pizza via phone and they caught on to the address the pizza was being delivered with the fraudlent cc.
You can score cc numbers very easily. Chances are she just saw the number out and copied the cc number down. Or took a rubbing of it.
Maybe she was a part in catching the Great MA Pizza Caper.

Beagle wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but the credit card theft seems hard to believe at face value. I just checked my records going back to Jan. 2001. Charge card receipts did in fact have only the last four digits printed on them, not the entire 16-digit sequence. That's almost three years before Maura was supposedly looking for discarded receipts.
Without the full 16 digit sequence, it would be kind of hard to charge something.
The credit card theft/bulimia story helps cement the image of a troubled young college student, one who would behave irrationally and ditch her car at the WB curve. But the story seems almost entirely based on Maura's access to all the information on a credit card that's needed to use it. Unless she had some other means of acquiring this information, the story, at least so far, does not stand up.
Was the full cc info skimmed? Was someone else involved? If Maura skimmed credit cards, which seems unlikely but possible, did she use an electronic skimming device?
Roughly a couple of years ago, Bill Belichick's daughter, a student at UMass, noticed fraudulent charges on her credit card. A local businessman was charged by police, who, instead of taking the criminal's photo at his home, actually arrested him and brought him to court for arraignment. The regular way.

I know you don't know me, Beagle, but I swear to you they DID have the full number in restaurant systems like Micros systems ....popular POS (point of sale) register system. To prove thins, I will hunt down some links to the relevant law for credit card purchases when I get home. But I am positive that the full number was printed at Pizza Hut, where I worked in college.

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
It all sounds so weird that they would take a photo at the dorm rather than at the police station. Maybe Maura was covering up for somebody else or for a larger scheme of events and she was the fall "guy".

And at West Point also? The rumors about credit card fraud first started in relation to her "leaving" West Point.

Bill

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree Beagle, unless the receipt found in the trash was from a retailer using an older style or manual credit card processor that included all 16 numbers.
It all sounds so weird that they would take a photo at the dorm rather than at the police station. Maybe Maura was covering up for somebody else or for a larger scheme of events and she was the fall "guy".

If I have credit card receipts that show only the last four digits, and if they're dated January 2001, then it's a stretch to believe that Amherst pizza places were using technology outdated by at least three years.

Renner makes it sound like the police, after Maura signed the receipt, meekly poked their heads in her room for a minute and said, "Excuse me, sorry to bother you, but we'd just like to take a quick photo of you standing against the wall. We apologize for the intrusion, but it won't take any time at all. We'll send something to you in the mail about this. Thanks for your hospitality. Enjoy your pizza."

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
And at West Point also? The rumors about credit card fraud first started in relation to her "leaving" West Point.
Bill

Honestly, I believe Renner on this point. We have heard the whisperings of credit card fraud throughout the past few years.....what I think is queer, is that Renner stated she left West Point for an honor code violation and that alcohol was involved. I really believe she left due to another credit card fraud...do you all think alcohol was a contributing factor in the cc fraud, and that's what he meant....or that it was not cc fraud at West Point, after all? It's highly coincidental if the rumblings about cc fraud at West Point were incorrect, but then she just so happens to commit fraud at UMASS, a year later....too coincidental.

Please excuse my typos. On my iPad and I suck at typing on it.

simply caustic wrote:

<quoted text>
I know you don't know me, Beagle, but I swear to you they DID have the full number in restaurant systems like Micros systems ....popular POS (point of sale) register system. To prove thins, I will hunt down some links to the relevant law for credit card purchases when I get home. But I am positive that the full number was printed at Pizza Hut, where I worked in college.

I just gave a diner owner hell because their POS system was displaying the entire number set on the copies that it was providing. I gave them hell and told them I won't use my CC (meaning I won't return) until they fixed it. They did within a week. I worked on a POS system for gasoline monitoring and dispensing systems. When you swipe your card at the pump, the data is supposed to be encoded between the dispensers and the POS system. I know many (most) weren't but that was in 1999. It would not surprise me that when this was happening that it was fairly easy to get the credit card numbers from several ways.

Bill

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>If I have credit card receipts that show only the last four digits, and if they're dated January 2001, then it's a stretch to believe that Amherst pizza places were using technology outdated by at least three years.
Renner makes it sound like the police, after Maura signed the receipt, meekly poked their heads in her room for a minute and said, "Excuse me, sorry to bother you, but we'd just like to take a quick photo of you standing against the wall. We apologize for the intrusion, but it won't take any time at all. We'll send something to you in the mail about this. Thanks for your hospitality. Enjoy your pizza."

Via Lexis/Nexis legal research database... In 2006, H.B. 2693, it became required for MA Merchants to only print last 5 digits. If you don't have a subscription, you can't view it, but look up Massachusetts H.B. 2693.
So until then, it was not an issue to print the full number on the customer copy of the receipt. Which is how, IMO, Maura obtained it (per Renners blog and another site saying she got it through the trash room..I'll find link)

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
I just gave a diner owner hell because their POS system was displaying the entire number set on the copies that it was providing. I gave them hell and told them I won't use my CC (meaning I won't return) until they fixed it. They did within a week. I worked on a POS system for gasoline monitoring and dispensing systems. When you swipe your card at the pump, the data is supposed to be encoded between the dispensers and the POS system. I know many (most) weren't but that was in 1999. It would not surprise me that when this was happening that it was fairly easy to get the credit card numbers from several ways.
Bill

I agree 100%....the updating was costly for some merchants and they avoided the mandatory upgrade of their systems to save cash...and since the law didn't pass too 2006, it's a safe bet that many (most) as you wrote above, were not upgraded years early.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>If I have credit card receipts that show only the last four digits, and if they're dated January 2001, then it's a stretch to believe that Amherst pizza places were using technology outdated by at least three years.
Renner makes it sound like the police, after Maura signed the receipt, meekly poked their heads in her room for a minute and said, "Excuse me, sorry to bother you, but we'd just like to take a quick photo of you standing against the wall. We apologize for the intrusion, but it won't take any time at all. We'll send something to you in the mail about this. Thanks for your hospitality. Enjoy your pizza."

You are totally right about how he worded it. I cannot fathom why they would photograph her at the dorm, when they CHARGED her per Renner....meaning, she at least was taken in, fingerprinted, mugshot taken, etc. even if she was let go on a personal recog bond. Is it feasible that, like Beagle said, the local college police were the jurisdictional LE and thus, only photographed her there, wrote her out a ticket or summons, etc. and she was NOT formally arrested? Just wondering, I'll defer to Beagle as I am not familiar with the legal process on e UMASS property...but I can't comprehend how this was kosher,

Yep, gotta keep Maura irrational, maybe suicidal, and definitely at the WB curve because of it.

After all, if she wasn't irrational and suicidal, as evidenced by her behavior at UMass, then why would she abandon her car and apparently disappear into the woods where she died?

It's kind of hard to claim her bahavior in Haverhill was irrational without having her previous behavior at UMass charaterized as irrational.

So far, these arguments in favor of her irrational behavior boil down to things like a 4-digit vs. 16-digit credit card format on a receipt, and Maura's access to them. These are dubious arguments at best.

It is pointed out that Maura had boxes stacked in her room. Bad sign. She was spending a lot of time elsewhere. Awful. She drank alcohol in the same amounts SW students are famous for. Unstable girl. She supposedly sent an email to her instructors saying there was a death in the family. First time that excuse has ever been used!

It's amazing how much the truth-hounds will scoff at sources they don't like, but accept on blind faith sources of a similar nature or veracity if these later sources back up their pet theories. If news accounts in general are not to be truly relied on, then you cannot pick and choose which news accounts on which to rely and which ones to dismiss. If Renner is to be regarded skeptically, then he must consistently be regarded skeptically, not just when it's convenient.

Simply caustic wrote:

<quoted text>
You are totally right about how he worded it. I cannot fathom why they would photograph her at the dorm, when they CHARGED her per Renner....meaning, she at least was taken in, fingerprinted, mugshot taken, etc. even if she was let go on a personal recog bond. Is it feasible that, like Beagle said, the local college police were the jurisdictional LE and thus, only photographed her there, wrote her out a ticket or summons, etc. and she was NOT formally arrested? Just wondering, I'll defer to Beagle as I am not familiar with the legal process on e UMASS property...but I can't comprehend how this was kosher,

I am not LE but I have seen enough shows were for prostitution and other offenses they ticket and photograph people on the spot. Also mass arrests, like groups of disorderly I have witnessed them doing that. I don't think that it particularly unusual. Doesn't mean that they don't need to appear before a judge.

Bill

I should say that it amounts to a release on their own recognizance. The penalty for not showing up is court is pretty severe. A bench warrant would likely be issued for your arrest......... I suspect.

Bill - not a lawyer but not dumb either.