Maura Murray

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
And anyone who has been knocked to the head can know that they senses and memory is going to be off. I do think her being off in the woods is very possible but the dog picking up then losing the scent so quickly and the police not giving up the files makes me think there is more.

It is an unsolved case. They want to solve it and if there is any chance of foul play they need to maintain the integrity of the case if it becomes a criminal matter. The dogs, again, did the scent disappear or was it so long the scent was to dispersed, by time and vehicles, for the dogs to track? I know the possibilities, but I don't know the answer. The only one that might is the dog handler. Haven't heard her speak to what she thinks.

Bill

Ohh & one more thing about the airbags.. I will describe it because my caravan isnt untill 4:15 & I still have a few minutes..

It was a 1995 Dodge Intrepid, one year older than the 1996 Saturn..
There were 3 of us headed to Burger King.. It was my first new car as I was 16 & had graduated the previous year (some of us graduate real young down here in VA, especially depending on your birthday, to when you started school, Mine is July 9'th)

Anyway.. It was as loud or louder than a shotgun blast!! It left my ears ringing!! My friends, Ross in the passenger seat & Lee in the back seat (in the middle as we were teenagers talking).. I honestly wasnt paying attention to the lights & it turned red almost instantly & I slammed on the breaks.. Next thing I know is that I was burning real bad, & I checked my friends to see if they were ok.. They were & I checked to see what I hit.. Nothing.. I then started burning really bad & it was a smell of something like gun powder & my shirt was tore & the burning started on my chest area.. After a few minutes of "gathering myself", I jumped out of the car.. I was a sports player & at the time I was 6'2 205.. My friends were much smaller.. There was blood on both Ross & Lees' face, and they were hollering about the burning.. I pulled them out of the vehicle, & threw my shirt off as the smell & burning was really hurting..

After I made sure we were all ok.. I assisted them with removing their shirts & tore off rags for their wounds.. I called 911 across the street & EMS came, along with a Trooper, & I recieved NO ticket, & EMS wiped us down real good with water & something else.. I had bruises on my head, face & chest.. As did Ross & Lee.. We had cuts on our faces & Lee had one from where the airbags tore up everything! The rearview mirror, cd player, dashboard, steering wheel, the gadgets behind the steering wheel (where the speedomoter is) the little places where the AC or heat comes from were ripped out.. The rearview mirror had hit Lee in the face!

All in all, the next day.. Ross had a black eye & several abrasions.. Lee had a huge cut on his forhead & several abrasions... & While I didnt have a black eye, I had a busted lip, and several abrasions, a gash on my cheek (which caused a scar) a weird rash (which we all had that cleared up the following day) severe pain where I had my seatbelt on in that area where it covers.. I looked like someone had kicked my butt very badly!!
As Bill stated - Very Violent!!

This could be seen as "off-topic" but I dont see it that way.. People often ask (on every place Ive read about Miss Maura Murray) about the air bags..

Someone weighing 120lbs could have been SEVERLY affected by being hit with them!! All 3 of us played Varsity football & was used to being hit..
It burns very badly!! We all had small 1'st degree burns & light 2'nd degree in some small spots! Our shirts were no good anymore & we all were shirtless untill we went home (we lived right beside each other)..

It is one major experiance in my life that I never have nor will ever forget & am very scared of airbags!!
I hope this personal information of my 2 friends & myself, may help anyone that was wondering or overlooking the effect that the airbags could have caused!
Ill see yall 2moro or maybe later tonight.. All depends on what they want to do & what I have to watch..

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
And anyone who has been knocked to the head can know that they senses and memory is going to be off. I do think her being off in the woods is very possible but the dog picking up then losing the scent so quickly and the police not giving up the files makes me think there is more.

before I leave.. I have a copy of the Hadley car accident.. It doesnt state much other than how she wrecked..

does anyone know if the airbags were deployed in the 04 corrola? If she was hit by airbags twice in less than 48 hours, my owe my would it hurt!!

Jenkins wrote:

One thing we have to remember is that in the days following her dissapearance it wasnt only dogs and people brought in for the search, it also was a helicopter with flir(heat seaking camera)
Scarinza talks about how he personally flew in the helicopter using the flir, he mentions how with it he could see footprints and even tiny animals clear as day because their heat signature stuck out like a sore thumb.
After doing this search scarinza is able to tell us fairly certainly that she did not go into the woods in that area.
Besides, how far could she possibly get into the woods with 2 feet of snow? She didn't have snowshoes.
Yes she was an experienced trail hiker, but going straight into the woods with 2' snow and no trail is a completly different story.
She must have left in a car, it's the only thing that makes sense knowing the few facts that are known, occams razor here.

There was 2 feet of snow on the sides of the road. Far less in the woods. It was crusty not soft as the descriptions of the time. By the time the helicopter went up she might have already been dead. If she was dead her temperature would take on the surrounding temperatures. FLIR shows in false greyscale or color, differences in temperature. Alive she shows up as seriously different in temperature (color) as the surrounding terrain. Dead she looks little different than the surrounding terrain. The only thing that shows different is because she MAY cool or heat faster or slower than the surrounding terrain.

They might not have been looking in the correct area and there are areas that have such a heavy canopy and understory that FLIR wouldn't help.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text> What you mean is. The only way your theory of an abduction works, is if she was forced, into a car. Of course she could have gotten into a car and gotten out and then got herself into trouble, couldn't she?

Was Maura Murray forced into a car? Did she get into a car and then get out? Nobody reported picking her up. Bill, is there something we're missing here?

Nobody believes Brianna Maitland was drunk on March 19, 2004. She was an intelligent, independent, and hard-working girl with fabulous parents, family and friends. You should read the posts before you regurgitate them and hit the send button.

Twist and Shout... that's your M.O. Hope all the twisting doesn't get your Depends in a knot.

Jenkins wrote:

I think debating the search dog's findings has no real Merritt because it downtown really tell us anything. The dog lost the scent either bc she got in a car, or because the scent was too old. It's possible the dog wasn't even following maura's scent. It's been said that they used a glove that she may have never worn, so the dog could've been confused as to the Scent.
I feel she got a ride from someone that she knew, the reason I think that? Because when she left the vehicle according to scarinza the only liquor she brought with her was the kahlua. Everyone knows u don't drink kahlua by itself, it looks like she bought that to complete a mixed drink.
I would suspect someone else was coming with the vodka and the milk.
She was obviously scared the sbd would call LE, but why wasn't she at all concerned about getting a ride? You would think that if she was out there all alone she would be concerned about getting a ride. I find it extremely hard to believe that she thought she could run to north Woodstock...she knew the north country well & nobody, no matter how great a xc runner is gonna think they can run to n Woodstock. That's not a xc run, that's a marathon.
Why wasn't she worried about finding a ride?
If she was going to a hotel by herself why wouldn't she want the sbd to help her cal aaa. If your going to nh to get a hotel that's not booked and u crash, wouldn't u want aaa to tow you to a hotel so u could stay the night and get your car fixed? Wouldn't the accident dictate that you were now staying in the Haverhill area as opposed to bartlett or n Conway? She lied and said she already called aaa and that was why he called police, she could have easily just asked him to call aaa for her and there would've been no need for LE to b called.
To me, these are the actions of someone who has someone coming to pick her up.
Think about it, after she crashed she wasn't trying to reach anyone, she was packing up her belongings that she had in her car, which brings us back to the kahlua.
If she was planning on being alone wouldn't she take the 6 pack of Seagrams? Maybe the wine but that's a big box to carry if your alone and think u have to walk far.
But If your all alone, that kahlua would b the last choice, not the only one you bring.
You can't drink kahlua by itself.
Debating what the dog did is pretty much useless because it's literally impossible to draw any sort of educated conclusion from.

What about her aaa card that was left behind ? Wouldn't she need that if she was going to get a tow after she was away from the scene?

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Uh Oh. You are so screwed now. Likely everyone now knows that you are either me, FrmLe, wowzer or snowey.
Your in for a hell of a ride. What you said is logical, makes perfect sense and agrees with what is known and the evidence at the scene. There are many here that are not going to like that. Prepare to be drawn and quartered. They take no prisoners. 8-)
Bill

Or me. I was already asked.:-)

The less interesting story is that I was busy this morning. I have a job.

I'm not sure why anyone would want more than one name on this board. I have enough trouble keeping up around here just being myself.

Yes, she could have gotten into a car and then gotten out and that's where she could have encountered some trouble. We don't know if she was meeting someone up there, the someone that had the other part of the mudslide ingredients as stated by the other poster, met him and then ran into trouble later. who. the. heck. knows? I am not of the mindset that I have to prove my suspicion of abduction, because I'm not convinced of that either. I know she's gone and that could mean anything really. Maybe she did run because that was what she was used to doing being a runner and that's who the CW saw running, then perhaps she got into some trouble after that sighting. Hit by a car, went in the woods, attacked by a moose.

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
Sadly, you're just an old dog with no new tricks. Curiously still here with the same old schtick.
Those NH LE search dogs got it right... which makes everyone believe that Maura was abducted and the Saturn was a crime scene. Just like Brianna Maitland's. Not the same killer perhaps, but the same attitude: "oh just another drunkard who abandoned their vehicle... no need to process it for evidence or DNA."

Who's everyone? I doubt everyone believes she was abducted.While there's a possibility she could have been abducted I don't "believe" that it was.
She could have gotten into a car of someone she knew that was following or she could have run miles down the road and headed into the woods or she could have made it to Lincoln and called someone etc. etc.
The truth is that no one knows what happened to MM. We can only guess.

hannah_b wrote:

<quoted text>
Why wouldn´t anyone know? Family and/or friends gotto have known if her charger was found in her dorm room = not with her, found in her car = not with her, or if it was missing = prolly with her. As for the phone being turned on or off, LE should have records of when it last pinged off a cell tower. Wasn´t there cell service along the highway, or where did cell service turn too bad/non existant in 2004 along Maura´s presumed route?

if family or friends know, no one is tellin'. there was once considerable debate about that very topic right here; of course, there were no definite answers.
assuredly, LE knows.
debate about the route she took is also unresolved.
more questions than answers; more unknowns than facts.
that's the reality.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
And anyone who has been knocked to the head can know that they senses and memory is going to be off. I do think her being off in the woods is very possible but the dog picking up then losing the scent so quickly and the police not giving up the files makes me think there is more.

I agree. Except, I don't think their not releasing the files points specifically toward foul play. Just that if it does turn out to be foul play, they want everything to be admissible in court. No way for us to know.

People are all excited about some stuff Renner dug up recently. It's interesting, for sure, but not new info. Those people could have been cleared as POIs a couple years ago, for all we know. Or, they could suspect who did it but just have not enough evidence.

There are so many possibilities, I don't know what to think anymore. Everything I find out leads to five more unanswerable questions.:-)

WTF? You know, this forum is for theories & questions.. You damn yanks keep leaving me peanuts & clueless lightbulbs & shit.. I atleast have a life where I dont HIDE behind a muthafukin internet screen & JUDGE others.. Only God can judge me you yankee muthafuka!!! I would welcome you very much to say that im "nuts" or "clueless" to me in person!! Whomever left me those things.. Your a JOKE, a p**** punk bitch!! Say it to my face, my address & pictures, along with my name is posted here & everywhere else on the internet.. I fought for your damn rights & your yankee ways of being so damn judgemental are down right rude!! Do the world a favor and just kill yourself!! You have no life whatsoever!! Probably no job nor education!! Some 30-40 yr old still living with mommy... get a life punk

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
Was Maura Murray forced into a car? Did she get into a car and then get out? Nobody reported picking her up. Bill, is there something we're missing here?
Nobody believes Brianna Maitland was drunk on March 19, 2004. She was an intelligent, independent, and hard-working girl with fabulous parents, family and friends. You should read the posts before you regurgitate them and hit the send button.
Twist and Shout... that's your M.O. Hope all the twisting doesn't get your Depends in a knot.

I see the first part of your post it makes sense. Your logic is if Maura got into a car and no one reported picking her up is foul play?

Did you watch the maitland disappeared show. I believe it mentions her smoking crack and having connects to drug dealers. I can see how LE said those cases wouldn't be related.

This is from the Whitman- Hanson Express:

Maura also packed a cell phone charger and a Samsung travel adapter for her cell phone.

Finally, Maura grabbed her favorite stuffed animal, a monkey her father had given her, and a diamond necklace from Billy.

Sometime around 3:30 p.m. on Monday, Feb. 9, Maura left her dorm and got into her Saturn.

Your experience doesn't necessarily agree with what a normal deployment is. She may have been far less injured then you. What is confusing me though is that the seatbelt pain you are talking about is unusual because you didn't actually have an accident. The seatbelt pain is usually a sign that the seatbelt did its job by restraining you. Bruising at the seatbelt areas are also common. Broken noses, detached retinas, ruptured eardrums, concussions, busted lips, black eyes all happen. Things that are different and wrong with your experience is not what Maura necessarily would have experienced. For the following reasons.

Clearly something happened in your experience that is not the norm. Remember, you were sitting, well skidding to a stop, in your car minding your own business when someone, for no reason, detonated a bomb in your car and hit you in the head and face without you expecting it. Now, airbags are designed to be deployed in front end collisions. They determine that front end collision with sensors. Modern airbags and even early ones determine a crash has occurred when at least two sensors turn on indicating a crash has occurred. These are very simple inertia devices in most cases, not prone to failure. In your case you were able to decelerate your car so fast that the sensors identified what they thought was a crash, even when there wasn’t one. I checked that car (model and year) for similar reports in the consumer complaint and found none similar to yours relating to air bags. Most of the time the complaint was that the airbag didn’t go off when they were supposed to.

Now, she actually had an accident and the system appeared to work the way it was supposed to. Now her seatbelt would have also tightened and locked, by another very simple, mechanical, inertia device, before the airbag went off keeping her back in the seat and farther away from the airbag than you might have been. I don’t think she had pre-tensioners on that model seatbelt so that wouldn’t have helped her but being smaller she would have likely needed to travel further to be hit as hard as you were by the airbag. Also that airbag is not going to give up, meaning that with your larger mass, you would have hit the bag harder than Maura and it was, and is, capable of hitting you just as hard as needed to keep you off of the steering column (which was one of the things that use to kill people all the time, as well as shooting under the dashboard, or through the windshield). You clearly suffered the effects of that airbag deployment. But look at what you saw and had and compare that to what was seen at Maura’s accident. Your bell was clearly rung. There was no known blood in or around the car (certainly of any significance) indicating that she wasn’t injured. And again, she was likely pumped up on alcohol and adrenaline. I’ve already stated what a remarkably potent anesthetic and motivator that can be.

Bill

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text> Just like Brianna Maitland's. Not the same killer perhaps, but the same attitude: "oh just another drunkard who abandoned their vehicle... no need to process it for evidence or DNA."

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
Was Maura Murray forced into a car? Did she get into a car and then get out? Nobody reported picking her up. Bill, is there something we're missing here?
Nobody believes Brianna Maitland was drunk on March 19, 2004. She was an intelligent, independent, and hard-working girl with fabulous parents, family and friends. You should read the posts before you regurgitate them and hit the send button.
Twist and Shout... that's your M.O. Hope all the twisting doesn't get your Depends in a knot.

I guess it is just your incredibly imprecise use of the language that confused me when you said: "Just like Brianna Maitland's. Not the same killer perhaps, but the same attitude: "oh just another drunkard who abandoned their vehicle"

I thought that you were implying that Brianna was drunk. So you are actually trying to say that she wasn't drunk and was a stalwart of the community. Are you also saying that there is or isn't evidence of a struggle at the scene?

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

Clearly something happened in your experience that is not the norm. Remember, you were sitting, well skidding to a stop, in your car minding your own business when someone, for no reason, detonated a bomb in your car and hit you in the head and face without you expecting it.
Now, she actually had an accident and the system appeared to work the way it was supposed to. Now her seatbelt would have also tightened and locked, by another very simple, mechanical, inertia device, before the airbag went off keeping her back in the seat and farther away from the airbag than you might have been. I don’t think she had pre-tensioners on that model seatbelt so that wouldn’t have helped her but being smaller she would have likely needed to travel further to be hit as hard as you were by the airbag. Also that airbag is not going to give up, meaning that with your larger mass, you would have hit the bag harder than Maura and it was, and is, capable of hitting you just as hard as needed to keep you off of the steering column (which was one of the things that use to kill people all the time, as well as shooting under the dashboard, or through the windshield). You clearly suffered the effects of that airbag deployment. But look at what you saw and had and compare that to what was seen at Maura’s accident. Your bell was clearly rung. There was no known blood in or around the car (certainly of any significance) indicating that she wasn’t injured. And again, she was likely pumped up on alcohol and adrenaline. I’ve already stated what a remarkably potent anesthetic and motivator that can be.
Bill

Yes, Bill.. Very much so.. Thats why they gave me a new one so I wouldnt sue.. I was just stating that they hurt & what they could do to someone.. It is VERY un-common for what happened in my situation to happen, but has happened many times as seen in lawsuits from back in the 90's.. I had a friend with a mustang back then that got alot of money cus it didnt deploy..
Do you not agree with me that at 120lbs if it did hit her in the face in a 96 model, that she might have had "her bell rung"?

I don't think her leaving her aaa card really means much, she could've simply forgot it.
And a aaa card is not necessary to get a row from aaa, all u need is an account.

I can tell u I've used aaa on several occasions over the yesrs and have never had my card on me.

She probably was planning on returning to the car later & I'm sure assumed the cops would tow her car anyways

Besides not releasing files There are several things LE has done that points to this being more than a girl who got lost in the woods.
Namely this case is being worked by the major crimes division which specifically investigates homicides. They've alps recently classified it as a cold case, in order to be classified a cold case that means they suspect a homicide to have occurred.

I'm sorry but It looks like Maura is most likely not in the woods near the crash site. With the snow cover she wouldn't have been able to make it very far into the woods. Also the river runs along 112 for a long way, so that eliminates one side of the road as a possible direction of travel into the woods.

The simplest answer is usually the correct one, the simplest answer, the one that fits with the evidence best is that she most likely got in a car voluntarily.
Lt scarinza sounds very confident when he says that they feel she left the area in a vehicle.
The question is who's car was it?
I feel it was someone she knew, & I'd bet they had some vodka and milk with them.

Emmett Dove wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, Bill.. Very much so.. Thats why they gave me a new one so I wouldnt sue.. I was just stating that they hurt & what they could do to someone.. It is VERY un-common for what happened in my situation to happen, but has happened many times as seen in lawsuits from back in the 90's.. I had a friend with a mustang back then that got alot of money cus it didnt deploy..
Do you not agree with me that at 120lbs if it did hit her in the face in a 96 model, that she might have had "her bell rung"?

Like I said, her much lighter weight and her emotional state and the alcohol and adrenalin she may have had in her system may have made her not nearly as broken as you were after the deployment. The other thing that plays into the damage is, the amount of stored energy being disbursed in the collision. Double the weight, and you double the energy. Double the speed and you quadruple the energy. So how fast she was going during the actual collision and the fact that she is half the weight of you, all plays into how much energy the airbag, and she had to absorb. That is trade between her, the car, and the airbag.

And as far as the judging thing. Don't sweat it. If they could write something even remotely cogent they wouldn't be using the buttons.

Bill