Maura Murray

Frostman wrote:

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You're such a martyr. Please someone, pass me a hankie.

There, there. Stop crying, your life will get better. But you need to work on it and get a valid diagnosis and take your prescribed meds daily.

Bill

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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She would have had to travel about 15 miles to Lincoln/Woodstock area before picking up a signal back then. And that's even iffy as her provider wasn't one that had good coverage in this area.

Do we know how far Maura could run comfortably? She was on the XC team, which according to Wikipedia generally 2.5 to 7.5 miles per course ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_country_ru... ). It's not inconceivable that she could run 15-20 miles at a time, especially if she braced herself and didn't take the miles as fast as she could. If this is the case, the area of search would be much wider than is speculated currently.

Coupling this info with "the dogs lost the scent," I personally think she could have got in a car immediately, had the car drop her somewhere close by (but not so close the police would see her) and from there... Who knows. It was never proven that the 8:30ish sighting eastbound on 112 was actually her.

WTH-the-original wrote:

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I don't know if you are aware but there is something called Occam's razor. You have basically paraphrased his axiom. A few people here can get highly agitated when you mention this axiom. He came up with this axiom seven centuries ago. Of course we still talk about it because it is a part of bedrock in logical thought. Some, who want to think out of the box (i.e. make stuff up) don't like the bedrock of foundation and principles that have been the mainstay of logical thought for over two thousand years, including the very useful Occam.
So be forewarned, your foray into "using the simplest explanation to explain the evidence" is often frowned upon by those that want grandiose made for TV movie material. They may just ignore you, or they may attack.
Bill

Understood.. Thanks for taking the time to answer fully.. I have only heard of Occam's Razor here on this forum.. & I understand that they may attack, but its the internet.. I didnt know I could attack back untill I seen people using curse words & it not being censored.. I honestly am not on the net that much.. The main part of it is for my job or to keep up with some friends.. Im usally online only during football season (or if something comes up on my job or a potential client reaches out to me or I release a new album) I am not to familiar with internet talk.. Thats why I ask simple questions.. I thought this was a private forum at first, LOL..

kitten wrote:

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Do we know how far Maura could run comfortably? She was on the XC team, which according to Wikipedia generally 2.5 to 7.5 miles per course ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_country_ru... ). It's not inconceivable that she could run 15-20 miles at a time, especially if she braced herself and didn't take the miles as fast as she could. If this is the case, the area of search would be much wider than is speculated currently.
Coupling this info with "the dogs lost the scent," I personally think she could have got in a car immediately, had the car drop her somewhere close by (but not so close the police would see her) and from there... Who knows. It was never proven that the 8:30ish sighting eastbound on 112 was actually her.

Very interesting! Thanks for adding this knowledge!!
Just a question, please.. I know everyone disregards those videos, but one of them had XC on the one with the ticket.. The ticket said XC, is that the same thing or something different alltogether? I have never been to a ski resort & know nothing of the meanings from most things up yonder..

Emmett Dove wrote:

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Very interesting! Thanks for adding this knowledge!!
Just a question, please.. I know everyone disregards those videos, but one of them had XC on the one with the ticket.. The ticket said XC, is that the same thing or something different alltogether? I have never been to a ski resort & know nothing of the meanings from most things up yonder..

There's XC skiing and XC running -- same principles, different sports. Both are long-distance sports, versus say, Track & Field, which is less about distance and more about speed/agility/ability to throw cumbersome, heavy objects.:)

WTH-the-original wrote:

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Oh, and to your point about JWB's dog. I agree, I think he writes better and may be smarter than JWB. JWB should let Patch express all of his thoughts. Unless, of course, his dog is smart enough to not always agree. Bill

Sadly, you're just an old dog with no new tricks. Curiously still here with the same old schtick.

Those NH LE search dogs got it right... which makes everyone believe that Maura was abducted and the Saturn was a crime scene. Just like Brianna Maitland's. Not the same killer perhaps, but the same attitude: "oh just another drunkard who abandoned their vehicle... no need to process it for evidence or DNA."

Emmett Dove wrote:

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Ok thanks.. That clears that up.. simple, yet effetive.. I slammed on the breaks of a 95 Intrepid, in 95 when I was 16, & it tore everything up.. cd player, whole dash, etc; Just not the windshield! It hurt like hell too!! It burns! Oliver McCall used to trian with us at his boxing gym before he went all crackhead on everyone.. I went to school with his daughters, sparred with him 1 time & he hit hard, but the airbag hit harder!

I agree with you about the airbag. Getting cracked in the head in boxing with the head gear on can suck but an airbag deployment without seatbelt or even with could hurt more. That could lead to a concussion also the airbag could burn your face, so I can understand if Maura looked different in pictures than what butch remembers.

kitten wrote:

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There's XC skiing and XC running -- same principles, different sports. Both are long-distance sports, versus say, Track & Field, which is less about distance and more about speed/agility/ability to throw cumbersome, heavy objects.:)

Ok, I understand now.. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me about my question!! I feel I have to start small to understand the "bigger picture".. Thanks again!

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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I agree with you about the airbag. Getting cracked in the head in boxing with the head gear on can suck but an airbag deployment without seatbelt or even with could hurt more. That could lead to a concussion also the airbag could burn your face, so I can understand if Maura looked different in pictures than what butch remembers.

Yes, very correct!! I didnt even hit a car, I just hit the breaks at a red light really hard.. Those airbags burnt really bad :( Its the hardest ive ever been hit in my life by anything! It burnt my mouth area really bad & messed up my shirt!! They may be better now, as this was a 95 model, but, I honestly didnt like it!! The burning sensation was worse to me than being shot in the military.. The wounds burn real bad at first, but it took a good 20-30 minutes for the burning to stop with the airbags!! & your correct, it made marks all over my face!! Maybe it was because I was only 16 at the time, but its a feeling that Ive never forgot & never will!!

Frostman wrote:

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Those NH LE search dogs got it right... which makes everyone believe that Maura was abducted and the Saturn was a crime scene. Just like Brianna Maitland's. Not the same killer perhaps, but the same attitude: "oh just another drunkard who abandoned their vehicle... no need to process it for evidence or DNA."

What you mean is. The only way your theory of an abduction works, is if she was forced, into a car.

Of course she could have gotten into a car and gotten out and then got herself into trouble, couldn't she?

And I wasn't aware Brianna was drunk. Where did you get that tidbit, or is it just more crap you are flinging around trying to obfuscate? I actually see evidence of a possible struggle at Brianna's car. Guess you haven't looked too close. And lets not forget some of the people she hung around with. I often think that you are just more interested waxing poetic than actually trying to figure things out. Seems to be your M.O.

Bill

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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so I can understand if Maura looked different in pictures than what butch remembers.

Yep, think it might knock the bun right off of you head? It can detach retinas so I think it might straighten your hair. I have talked about this before and you can find examples on youtube. Most people see an airbag deployment in slow motion and have no idea how violent it actually is.

Bill

well, It was a good day for me here.. I actually learned some stuff today.. The small things help me out very much looking at this case.. Thanks again to all that provided decent conversaton & answering my small questions..

I have to get ready for work as a Diplomat is in town for the weekend & my shift wont end till round 4am or later if they request..

Thanks Again!

Snowy wrote:

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no*one*knows*if*she*had*a*char ger*with*her*and/or*whether*he r*phone*was*turned*on*or*off*d uring*her*trip*to*NH.

Why wouldn´t anyone know? Family and/or friends gotto have known if her charger was found in her dorm room = not with her, found in her car = not with her, or if it was missing = prolly with her. As for the phone being turned on or off, LE should have records of when it last pinged off a cell tower. Wasn´t there cell service along the highway, or where did cell service turn too bad/non existant in 2004 along Maura´s presumed route?

Frostman wrote:

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Sadly, you're just an old dog with no new tricks. Curiously still here with the same old schtick.
Those NH LE search dogs got it right... which makes everyone believe that Maura was abducted and the Saturn was a crime scene. Just like Brianna Maitland's. Not the same killer perhaps, but the same attitude: "oh just another drunkard who abandoned their vehicle... no need to process it for evidence or DNA."

Frostman I'm trying to keep options open for some theories. I don't think anyone can look at the crash and say abduction. I think we can say as of now she went into another car and or possibly ran off.

I think debating the search dog's findings has no real Merritt because it downtown really tell us anything. The dog lost the scent either bc she got in a car, or because the scent was too old. It's possible the dog wasn't even following maura's scent. It's been said that they used a glove that she may have never worn, so the dog could've been confused as to the Scent.

I feel she got a ride from someone that she knew, the reason I think that? Because when she left the vehicle according to scarinza the only liquor she brought with her was the kahlua. Everyone knows u don't drink kahlua by itself, it looks like she bought that to complete a mixed drink.
I would suspect someone else was coming with the vodka and the milk.
She was obviously scared the sbd would call LE, but why wasn't she at all concerned about getting a ride? You would think that if she was out there all alone she would be concerned about getting a ride. I find it extremely hard to believe that she thought she could run to north Woodstock...she knew the north country well & nobody, no matter how great a xc runner is gonna think they can run to n Woodstock. That's not a xc run, that's a marathon.
Why wasn't she worried about finding a ride?
If she was going to a hotel by herself why wouldn't she want the sbd to help her cal aaa. If your going to nh to get a hotel that's not booked and u crash, wouldn't u want aaa to tow you to a hotel so u could stay the night and get your car fixed? Wouldn't the accident dictate that you were now staying in the Haverhill area as opposed to bartlett or n Conway? She lied and said she already called aaa and that was why he called police, she could have easily just asked him to call aaa for her and there would've been no need for LE to b called.
To me, these are the actions of someone who has someone coming to pick her up.
Think about it, after she crashed she wasn't trying to reach anyone, she was packing up her belongings that she had in her car, which brings us back to the kahlua.
If she was planning on being alone wouldn't she take the 6 pack of Seagrams? Maybe the wine but that's a big box to carry if your alone and think u have to walk far.
But If your all alone, that kahlua would b the last choice, not the only one you bring.
You can't drink kahlua by itself.

Debating what the dog did is pretty much useless because it's literally impossible to draw any sort of educated conclusion from.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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Frostman I'm trying to keep options open for some theories. I don't think anyone can look at the crash and say abduction. I think we can say as of now she went into another car and or possibly ran off.

With all due respect I don't think we can say anything as of now. I think we can say as of now we simply don't know what happened to her. That is a definate. Whether she was abducted, she went into another car, ran off, all possibilities. I think if you weren't there you just don't know.

WTH-the-original wrote:

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Yep, think it might knock the bun right off of you head? It can detach retinas so I think it might straighten your hair. I have talked about this before and you can find examples on youtube. Most people see an airbag deployment in slow motion and have no idea how violent it actually is.
Bill

And anyone who has been knocked to the head can know that they senses and memory is going to be off. I do think her being off in the woods is very possible but the dog picking up then losing the scent so quickly and the police not giving up the files makes me think there is more.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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Frostman I'm trying to keep options open for some theories. I don't think anyone can look at the crash and say abduction. I think we can say as of now she went into another car and or possibly ran off.

Uh Oh. You are so screwed now. Likely everyone now knows that you are either me, FrmLe, wowzer or snowey.

Your in for a hell of a ride. What you said is logical, makes perfect sense and agrees with what is known and the evidence at the scene. There are many here that are not going to like that. Prepare to be drawn and quartered. They take no prisoners. 8-)

Bill

Laurieisgone wrote:

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With all due respect I don't think we can say anything as of now. I think we can say as of now we simply don't know what happened to her. That is a definate. Whether she was abducted, she went into another car, ran off, all possibilities. I think if you weren't there you just don't know.

No offense taken but so we are on the same page if she didn't run off or get into a car what other theory is there?

One thing we have to remember is that in the days following her dissapearance it wasnt only dogs and people brought in for the search, it also was a helicopter with flir(heat seaking camera)
Scarinza talks about how he personally flew in the helicopter using the flir, he mentions how with it he could see footprints and even tiny animals clear as day because their heat signature stuck out like a sore thumb.
After doing this search scarinza is able to tell us fairly certainly that she did not go into the woods in that area.
Besides, how far could she possibly get into the woods with 2 feet of snow? She didn't have snowshoes.
Yes she was an experienced trail hiker, but going straight into the woods with 2' snow and no trail is a completly different story.

She must have left in a car, it's the only thing that makes sense knowing the few facts that are known, occams razor here.