Maura Murray

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oo00oo

Tucson, AZ

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#14677
Feb 29, 2012
 

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amy researches wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Snowy. From what I have learned so far, here are my opinions:
Without knowing which areas were searched, by whom and when, it's impossible to determine the probability of her being in the woods. That would be my best guess for the following:
Statements made to keep records from being released to Maura's father, plus CCU involvement, lend me to believe that
1) foul play is suspected
and/or
2) LE doesn't want to be sued.
It's suspicious that Mr. Murray was initially denied even the most basic records, accident report for example, back when the case was still being handled as a missing person case. Lends me to believe that
1) foul play was suspected earlier on than publicly admitted
and/or
2) LE doesn't want to be sued.
LE refusing help from FBI lends me to believe that
1) they have more answers than they are letting on, but are waiting for a solid piece of evidence to bring the case
or
2) LE doesn't want to be sued.
When I say maybe LE doesn't want to be sued, I don't imply they intentionally did anything wrong. My understanding is that it's a small department, probably not used to handling situations of this nature, and they did the best they could at that time. Hindsight is 20/20, and everything I've read leads me to believe that even family members initially believed Maura fled the scene on her own. While everyone expected her to turn up, not handling certain items such as her car, laptop, etc, as evidence COULD HAVE compromised the investigation. Not accusing, just a possibility.
I agree that her past behavior and the planning could be relevant. If she was meeting someone, someone no one else knew about, that would be a strong POI. It makes sense that such a person's existence would not be released to the public or even to family.
If there was no such person, and she ran into some very coincidental bad luck, then her past behavior and planning would be irrelevant. Unlikely, but still a possibility.
Just windmilling. Woooosh.:-)
That was not windmilling, that was refreshing.

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#14678
Feb 29, 2012
 
Desenrascanco wrote:
Just so everyone knows.. This is me, Emmett.. Desenrascanco translates to : A fresh start from a bad one.
Ahha... tried to find Desenrascanco on the Google map but it did not compute!

“Tha Gooch”

Since: Feb 12

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#14679
Feb 29, 2012
 

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Frostman wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahha... tried to find Desenrascanco on the Google map but it did not compute!
its a portugese word.. one of those words that has much meaning for one word.. I used it in the meaning that I want to start over on this forum & put the bad stuff behind me.. "solution to problems"..
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#14680
Feb 29, 2012
 
Captain Jack wrote:
<quoted text>
You just said it "hindsight is 20/20. Perhaps she was not anticipating the unexpected.
well, it just so happens that our constellation of family keeps in touch with one another. that's what we do.
cell phone connectivity was available then, but MM apparently didn't alert anyone to the trip she was planning.....a trip that was out of character for her in mid-semester.
it is also strange that no one has come forward to say they had knowledge of her intention, or was significantly troubled enough by her emotional outburst to follow-up.
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#14681
Feb 29, 2012
 
WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, all the unknowns and possibilities.
Respect. An interesting word. That is what gets generated when people take the time to research and reason and back up their work, instead of throwing out their first most fanciful guesses.
I would love to see the areas that were searched and the thinking of why there were searched and how extensively. All very important things I wish we could know that has been lacking.
And no. No one takes it personally when it is the theory that is being talked about because you are searching for the truth. Getting to it requires honest gathering of the facts. That doesn't involve personalities or stories.
And yes, you also have my respect.
Bill
am i mistaken? i've never heard you express doubt about the extent to which, and the expense at which authorities devoted resources to search for MM.
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#14682
Feb 29, 2012
 
Captain Jack wrote:
<quoted text>
You just said it "hindsight is 20/20. Perhaps she was not anticipating the unexpected.
sorry. the "hindsight" at 20/20 refers to FM's (and now citigirl's) claims that authorities should have been able to immediately evaluate the scenario and determine there was foul play....and, therefore, know in which direction to chase MM.
again, presuming it was MM at the scene of the accident, she was offered and refused help.
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#14683
Feb 29, 2012
 
WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll just touch on this part. People in water have a very nasty habit, of ALWAYS bobbing to the surface. ALWAYS. Water is likely the absolute worst way to dispose of a body. Ask Peterson. He had an entire bay and he couldn't get it right. Both his wife and unborn son came back to shore, not just bobbed to the surface, they landed on shore. I mean, how lucky is this guy. He disposes of one body, and two come back on shore.
The rest is interesting but no one noticed all the friends missing from school at the same time? Why did they convoy up there? No one looked at the email address that the death in the family email came from? Am I the only one that thinks that this is a real stretch? Again, aren't there much easier ways to have Maura winding up at the corner with a crashed car? Than the pin stealing, kidnapping, fake emailing scenario?
I'm trying to do this in the nicest way possible without mentioning my hero, you know who.
Agree/Disagree???
Bill
it is beyond a stretch of imagination, imho.
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#14684
Feb 29, 2012
 

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amy researches wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, Snowy. From what I have learned so far, here are my opinions:
Without knowing which areas were searched, by whom and when, it's impossible to determine the probability of her being in the woods. That would be my best guess for the following:
Statements made to keep records from being released to Maura's father, plus CCU involvement, lend me to believe that
1) foul play is suspected
and/or
2) LE doesn't want to be sued.
It's suspicious that Mr. Murray was initially denied even the most basic records, accident report for example, back when the case was still being handled as a missing person case. Lends me to believe that
1) foul play was suspected earlier on than publicly admitted
and/or
2) LE doesn't want to be sued.
LE refusing help from FBI lends me to believe that
1) they have more answers than they are letting on, but are waiting for a solid piece of evidence to bring the case
or
2) LE doesn't want to be sued.
When I say maybe LE doesn't want to be sued, I don't imply they intentionally did anything wrong. My understanding is that it's a small department, probably not used to handling situations of this nature, and they did the best they could at that time. Hindsight is 20/20, and everything I've read leads me to believe that even family members initially believed Maura fled the scene on her own. While everyone expected her to turn up, not handling certain items such as her car, laptop, etc, as evidence COULD HAVE compromised the investigation. Not accusing, just a possibility.
I agree that her past behavior and the planning could be relevant. If she was meeting someone, someone no one else knew about, that would be a strong POI. It makes sense that such a person's existence would not be released to the public or even to family.
If there was no such person, and she ran into some very coincidental bad luck, then her past behavior and planning would be irrelevant. Unlikely, but still a possibility.
Just windmilling. Woooosh.:-)
and might there be questions about the father's initial responses to authorities that would cause them to withhold certain documents from him?

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#14685
Feb 29, 2012
 

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Snowy wrote:
<quoted text>
and might there be questions about the father's initial responses to authorities that would cause them to withhold certain documents from him?
I do question that, yes. I've never seen FOIA denied because "this guy is a pain in our behind." Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that I have never seen it. It's not an area where I have much experience, frankly, and I'm not a lawyer. My personal opinion is there would need to be a strong reason to withhold it from him, but I can't back that up with definitive proof.

Did you by any chance watch the video of the hearing in front of the New Hampshire Supreme Court?

Since: Nov 08

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#14686
Feb 29, 2012
 
Snowy wrote:
<quoted text>
am i mistaken? i've never heard you express doubt about the extent to which, and the expense at which authorities devoted resources to search for MM.
Not sure what you are asking snowy.

I don't doubt that they did everything correct that night knowing what they knew. I also don't think that they need any help then or now at this point including the FBI and if they did, they would ask.

Bill

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#14687
Feb 29, 2012
 
amy researches wrote:
<quoted text>
I do question that, yes. I've never seen FOIA denied because "this guy is a pain in our behind." Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that I have never seen it. It's not an area where I have much experience, frankly, and I'm not a lawyer. My personal opinion is there would need to be a strong reason to withhold it from him, but I can't back that up with definitive proof.
Did you by any chance watch the video of the hearing in front of the New Hampshire Supreme Court?
I am going from memory but my interpretation of the hearing resulted in this. Very straight forward.

The state basically lost. The court said that the exemption they were asking for was too broad. They had a right to claim it, but, in doing so they must explain why the exemption covered so much, basically everything. Did the lower court ever do an in camera review of this case after the supreme court review?

I would much rather hear what your thoughts on the opinion were because as I have stated often and repeatedly in the past, I could be completely full of crap.

Bill

Since: Nov 08

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#14688
Feb 29, 2012
 
Frostman wrote:
<quoted text>
If two students decided to confront MM because of, say, the CC incident and things got out of control in a single dorm room (an over-spiked drink) they would need to get rid of the evidence. In this scenario, I'm NOT suggesting that MM was close friends with them.
By evidence you mean Maura's body? They needed to drive her body, to NH stopping for drinks and more along the way? Now that I think of it, wasn't Maura seen packing the car? I thought I remember that?

Sorry, it seems a stretch to me.

Still on my best behavior.

Bill
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#14689
Feb 29, 2012
 

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amy researches wrote:
<quoted text>
I do question that, yes. I've never seen FOIA denied because "this guy is a pain in our behind." Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that I have never seen it. It's not an area where I have much experience, frankly, and I'm not a lawyer. My personal opinion is there would need to be a strong reason to withhold it from him, but I can't back that up with definitive proof.
Did you by any chance watch the video of the hearing in front of the New Hampshire Supreme Court?
let me be more direct, then. some have suggested he might be, unofficially, a POI. if that were the case, would that be reason, then, to deny him full disclosure?

not yet....saw the first video. hope to get back to it. i was impressed with the lawyer's argument on behalf of FM.
whiston

Waterbury, CT

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#14690
Feb 29, 2012
 

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Hi citigirl and all.Assuming your post is correct did SBD get face to face with JKM and recognize him before sgtSmith arrived at the saturn.When JKM met RO on the road we were told he said something like 'oh its you',When had they met before.The cottage hospital witness reported the police vehicle that passed her/him on goose lane turned left away from the saturn and then came back toward the saturn.Lets suppose sgtSmith was lost.What if it was a second police vehicle that the witness saw and assumed it was sgt.Smith nose to nose with the saturn when they passed it.Anyone know how many suv's they had at that time and who was driving them that night.take care philip

“"Dancing with wolves"”

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#14691
Feb 29, 2012
 

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WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
Wowzer. I didn't know that. Did you hear the earlier reported crash report on the scanner? Just curious. I use to believe that might have happened but I find it unlikely because of the lack of documentation that should be there. Can you explicitly state there was none? Or maybe you weren't near the scanner at that time?
Very interested in hearing what you have to say about this.
Bill
I heard the scanner call for her car off the road. It was no big deal and normally I wouldn't have paid attention but this was very near to me so it caught my interest.I've mentioned it before but I guess no one paid attention or missed it.
I did not hear any other call for this area or any other call for a car off the road. Many times I confronted Anne with the fact that she seemed to be the only one in the North Country that heard it.
Also if there was such a call it would at least been on the dispatch report.JMHO
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#14692
Feb 29, 2012
 

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WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
Not sure what you are asking snowy.
I don't doubt that they did everything correct that night knowing what they knew. I also don't think that they need any help then or now at this point including the FBI and if they did, they would ask.
Bill
i may not be expressing myself clearly.

amy states:
"Without knowing which areas were searched, by whom and when, it's impossible to determine the probability of her being in the woods."

WTH/Bill replies:
"I would love to see the areas that were searched and the thinking of why there were searched and how extensively. All very important things I wish we could know that has been lacking."

if i am not mistaken, i thought you felt confident the searches were adequate to excellent.

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#14693
Feb 29, 2012
 
Wowzer the real one wrote:
<quoted text>
I heard the scanner call for her car off the road. It was no big deal and normally I wouldn't have paid attention but this was very near to me so it caught my interest.I've mentioned it before but I guess no one paid attention or missed it.
I did not hear any other call for this area or any other call for a car off the road. Many times I confronted Anne with the fact that she seemed to be the only one in the North Country that heard it.
Also if there was such a call it would at least been on the dispatch report.JMHO
That is what I thought. Just wanted to check. I assume that she heard something, don't know what it was or when. And like I said, the most worrisome part was there was nothing in the dispatch log. And there would have been.

I assume it was an honest mistake and I believe she believes she heard it.

Bill

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#14694
Feb 29, 2012
 

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Snowy wrote:
<quoted text>
i may not be expressing myself clearly.
amy states:
"Without knowing which areas were searched, by whom and when, it's impossible to determine the probability of her being in the woods."
WTH/Bill replies:
"I would love to see the areas that were searched and the thinking of why there were searched and how extensively. All very important things I wish we could know that has been lacking."
if i am not mistaken, i thought you felt confident the searches were adequate to excellent.
I never said that. I have always maintained and said that the INITIAL search (the first hasty search), done by the officer and others during the crash, that night, were adequate and what I would have expected and to be perfectly reasonable, prudent and to a very acceptable standard given the circumstances.

The searches done by the search teams, later. I have no idea where they searched, why they searched where they did, how adequate or well the areas where searched or if the planning for the searches even made sense. I know nothing about those later searches.

Hope that clarifies.

Bill

“"Dancing with wolves"”

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#14695
Feb 29, 2012
 

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Frostman wrote:
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UMass is a large university, not junior kindergarden; there's no roll call and nobody would miss a few college kids for a day or two. If something went wrong with a college dorm "prank", the perps might want to make it look like a Walk Away... far away I should think. Perhaps the car accident interrupted a hastily hatched plan? Unfrozen water, cement, it's anyone's guess.
Who's your hero, Genghis Khan?
Didn't the FBI investigate the school and her friends? WOuldn't the FBI think it odd that some students were also missing during the time Maura disappeared?
And if the unfrozen water is in MA then why drive north thru two states with a body in the trunk when they could have saved time and gas and stayed right there in MA?

Since: Feb 12

Loveland, OH

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#14696
Feb 29, 2012
 
mcsmom wrote:
<quoted text>
Assuming you are saying this was Monaghan?
That's what I ASSumed. I asked about this last week here - too lazy right now to look up the post #- and believe I was told a credible poster (RO maybe? again, too lazy to look, feel free to) knows that NHSP officer M had a perfectly legit reason to be there, having heard it over the scanner and deciding to stop by. Citigirl, is that to whom you are referring? I mean, even if he said that at the time, are we just to flat-out believe it because he said it. Not accusing here, just covering all bases since the Whitman-Hanson article claimed he didn't want to comment about it.

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