Maura Murray

WTH-the-original wrote:

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Holy shit!
Someone that disagrees with me that I don't need to beat the crap out of verbally. Why you ask?
She backs up everything she says with facts. While I don't necessarily agree with her I really can't argue with her because she has stated facts to back up her theory. I especially can't argue with a lot of what she says because she knows much more about the legal way things are done than I do.
I have always thought that the FBI wasn't needed. Your theory could certainly be correct. Mine was similar in that I figured that NHSP didn't have anything that they couldn't yet figure out in the case. If they ever needed the FBI lab or help I am sure they would accept/request it.
Again, I see it as less likely that there was foul play but your logic, and your laying out your case was impeccable. Many could learn a great deal from your approach. Examine, check the facts, investigate, use logic to figure out what you can, and then not only write something, back it up with well thought out, logical statements. Problem is. This takes time and a lot of work to do. Some might not be so inclined.
Again, WOW, great job, but, actually, I guess that is your job, so I probably should say, great work. 8-)
Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text> By evidence you mean Maura's body? They needed to drive her body, to NH stopping for drinks and more along the way? Now that I think of it, wasn't Maura seen packing the car? I thought I remember that? Sorry, it seems a stretch to me. Still on my best behavior. Bill

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Snowy wrote:

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let me be more direct, then. some have suggested he might be, unofficially, a POI. if that were the case, would that be reason, then, to deny him full disclosure?
not yet....saw the first video. hope to get back to it. i was impressed with the lawyer's argument on behalf of FM.

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Wowzer the real one wrote:

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Didn't the FBI investigate the school and her friends? WOuldn't the FBI think it odd that some students were also missing during the time Maura disappeared?
And if the unfrozen water is in MA then why drive north thru two states with a body in the trunk when they could have saved time and gas and stayed right there in MA?

WTH-the-original wrote:

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I never said that. I have always maintained and said that the INITIAL search (the first hasty search), done by the officer and others during the crash, that night, were adequate and what I would have expected and to be perfectly reasonable, prudent and to a very acceptable standard given the circumstances.
The searches done by the search teams, later. I have no idea where they searched, why they searched where they did, how adequate or well the areas where searched or if the planning for the searches even made sense. I know nothing about those later searches.
Hope that clarifies.
Bill

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Frostman wrote:

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Of course my scenario is a bit of a stretch. But I can see how a couple of students might want to teach another a lesson. If that "lesson" then went a little overboard and there was a scramble to hide evidence, who knows what crazy, post-incident schemes might have been hatched. If someone else was driving the Saturn, perhaps they weren't aware that it was mechanically unreliable?
Sure, if you're going to hide evidence or a body why drive all the way to upstate New Hampshire unless there was information in the dorm room that gave the un-subs an idea to go to the Whites? Leave at 4pm on a Monday after classes, dispose of the evidence (or make it look like a suicide/OD) and be back for classes on Tuesday morning. But then there's an unexpected crash and a witness (SBD)... ergo Plan B -- fly like a bat out of h*ll.
(I know, you just don't want me to return that box set of DVDs to Amazon.)

Frostman wrote:

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(I know, you just don't want me to return that box set of DVDs to Amazon.)

amy researches wrote:

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I respect your theory also, and I would agree with you if someone could tell me which areas were searched by whom and when. If someone could tell me that the construction worker definitely saw Maura five miles down the road. If we knew who posted on Renner's blog that there were definitely footprints leading into the woods, and that person turned out to be credible or had photographs. But with all of the unknowns, I'm left with grasping at the straws of the few things I do kinda sorta understand. If any of what I stated is factually wrong, please feel free to correct me. I won't take it personally.

WTH-the-original wrote:

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Yes they did and I am sure they would have. And again, the thought that several kids could keep this a secret borders on the impossible.
And yes, I don't know why anyone would drive around with a body in the trunk for a couple hundred miles, risking being pulled over, being seen at gas stations, or convenience stores etc. The body could have been disposed of much easier, closer, with less fanfare than crashing a vehicle in NH.
JMHO,
Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

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I am going from memory but my interpretation of the hearing resulted in this. Very straight forward.
The state basically lost. The court said that the exemption they were asking for was too broad. They had a right to claim it, but, in doing so they must explain why the exemption covered so much, basically everything. Did the lower court ever do an in camera review of this case after the supreme court review?
I would much rather hear what your thoughts on the opinion were because as I have stated often and repeatedly in the past, I could be completely full of crap.

Det Columbo wrote:

Anyone for a game of Blackjack.?
John

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Wowzer the real one wrote:

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Amy I've never heard that there were definitely footprints leading into the woods. As far as I know the air and ground searches didn't find any human tracks going into the woods.
Common sense tells me that if there were prints they would have been followed until the person making the prints was found.JMO

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Advocate wrote:

A couple of thoughts ....
First on the rag in the tailpipe and the fact that CS apparently knew about it early on that night. Over the last 8 years several posters have experimented with putting a similar type rag into the tailpipes of their cars and have reported that the rags were blown out either immediately or pretty quickly. This would suggest that the rag was not placed in her tailpipe by someone when she made a stop for gas (if she did), etc. Therefore, the rag was likely placed in the tailpipe there at the scene after the Saturn crashed.
The Saturn was supposedly running on only 3 cylinders. I wonder if the decreased power would have allowed a rag to stay pushed up in the tailpipe had it been placed there at some time prior to the crash -- does anyone know?
If Maura herself put the rag in the tailpipe at the scene of the Saturn crash before she left (however she left), it could only have been pushed in as far as her fingers could push it which would not be very far. So, since apparently it was really shoved way up in there, maybe she picked up a stick and pushed it far in with that. If she had some concern the car might be stolen, maybe she thought it would not be driveable with a rag wedged up in the tailpipe. If she then dropped the stick on the ground under the tailpipe or left it leaning against the back of the car, that might have prompted CS to have taken a flashlight and looked into the tailpipe. Something had to have attracted his attention to the tailpipe since it sounds like the rag was not hanging out.
My other thought is this: were there any high school students at the time who rode with the SBD when he headed home because the student/s lived near him? Or maybe a student rode with him that night because someone was going to pick the student up at or near the SBDs home? If there was a student on the bus still, that student might have got out to help Maura. Something like that could explain what F Westman thought was a lit cigarette at the Saturn location. It could also explain a red pickup sitting on BHR (if that is a fact)-- maybe the student and Maura went to the truck and left the scene that way.
This may be information that LE knows but has not been released to the public for any number of good reasons.

amy researches wrote:

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Before I go on a possibly pointless ramble, is this what we're talking about?
"Accordingly, because the respondents have not met their burden to justify withholding the requested documents, we remand the matter for a new hearing. On remand, if the respondents continue to resist disclosure, they must make a presentation that will allow the superior court to determine how disclosure of the requested information could interfere with an ongoing investigation or enforcement proceedings."
Murray v. NH Div. of State Police, 913 A. 2d 737 - NH: Supreme Court 2006
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case...

amy researches wrote:

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I agree. It's interesting that this person continues to post on Renner's blog that they "know for a fact" this is true. If untrue, I wonder why they are so adamant.