Maura Murray

Jenkins wrote:

Something else that could make her need to leave for a week could be If she had another black eye, one that couldnt be covered up with makeup.

she'd have to explain it, over and over again.
an abusive relationship would affect every aspect of her life.

Det Columbo wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry....I do not dismiss UMASS at all. My statement meant to mean that "this is when things started to go wrong with the plan."
If there was a plan or something just quickly triggered the event that led to her departing Umass.
Something went terribly wrong at The Weathered Barn Corner on Feb 9th 2004.
John

So what do you think? Sounds like you think LE was highly inept - which is what I believed for a long time - or that they were involved - which I am starting to believe more and more when I look at it from that view point. You allude to things but you never say them. Then you say "the truth will come out," or something to that affect. Annoying.

Det Columbo wrote:

I believe the real times to be concerned with are from 6:45 til 7:46 PM on Feb. 9th 2004.
I believe this is when the suspicious disappearance of Maura started to play out.
John

is it reasonably feasible to make it from Amherst, MA to Haverhill, NH in that time frame in a vehicle that doesn't run well?

Here's what I'm curious about.

Maura was on some form of probation - very likely pre-trial probation. Thus, she was arrested and booked. Why was the photograph given to Renner, the one from the file @ the dorm -the photo in front of the wall? Why not the mugshot? That's standard procedure, here at least, that the rap sheet as it's nicknamed, contains the arrested individual's mugshot. But also....with her being on pretrial probation, a DUI would have (not could have - WOULD have) resulted in some form of sanctions, whether it be short-term incarceration, stringent probation rules, etc. and COULD have resulted in the State's rescinding the offer of probation - and proceeding with the charges. The charges were set to be dismissed, per Renner, shortly after her disappearance. Having new criminal charges filed against her is an automatic violation of her probation. THUS....I wonder if the 'upsetting' phone call she rec'd could have been notification of another pending charge - like another student finding out she had used their credit card, for instance. Hell, the Vasi thing could be an option (I don't subscribe to that, but you never know).

My point is - she had a LOT to lose at this point in her life. Like, her freedom. Stronger people than she have caved under the threat incarceration.

Darn Topix and it's lack of an edit button --
the above last sentence should read

"Stronger people than she have ran at the threat of incarceration."

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
she'd have to explain it, over and over again.
an abusive relationship would affect every aspect of her life.

It's been theorized that Fred Murray may have had an anger management issue. I'm not family bashing: It's a fact, that that has been theorized. I don't know if it's been supported anywhere, but the same posters suggesting his anger issues and past domestic battery/violence charges, were the ones long-ago talking about Maura's arrest for CC fraud (which was later confirmed). It's very common for women raised in abusive households, to end up in violent relationships. That being said, I don't know that we can conclude she had a black eye. But it is suggestive.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

Here's what I'm curious about.
Maura was on some form of probation - very likely pre-trial probation. Thus, she was arrested and booked. Why was the photograph given to Renner, the one from the file @ the dorm -the photo in front of the wall? Why not the mugshot? That's standard procedure, here at least, that the rap sheet as it's nicknamed, contains the arrested individual's mugshot. But also....with her being on pretrial probation, a DUI would have (not could have - WOULD have) resulted in some form of sanctions, whether it be short-term incarceration, stringent probation rules, etc. and COULD have resulted in the State's rescinding the offer of probation - and proceeding with the charges. The charges were set to be dismissed, per Renner, shortly after her disappearance. Having new criminal charges filed against her is an automatic violation of her probation. THUS....I wonder if the 'upsetting' phone call she rec'd could have been notification of another pending charge - like another student finding out she had used their credit card, for instance. Hell, the Vasi thing could be an option (I don't subscribe to that, but you never know).
My point is - she had a LOT to lose at this point in her life. Like, her freedom. Stronger people than she have caved under the threat incarceration.

Yeah, I said basically the same thing yesterday and for some reason got flamed for it.

Snowy wrote:

for newbies....
there truly is a "gang", a gaggle, a sisterhood, a Pointy Boots Brigade....and there was a virtual bartender on topix.
this dude, i'm told, served "actual" drinks during a gathering / original search for MM in NH....and later, served "virtual" drinks online to the "gang" under a big top in a circus-like atmosphere associated with the original MMM forum.
the inner circle was, i'm told, privy to info about MM before her disappearance....and they've pretty much held tight to stuff until it's been revealed over the past year, and confirmed by Renner.
crazy, much??!
to me, the most important take-away is that the levity that took place inside the big top is contrasted with the scoldings we've all received on various forums about respecting the solemn nature of her disappearance.
in the past, MM has been held up as a deity....a young woman of beauty, brains and perfection by this group.
and, yet, they pointed their fingers with blame at any number of local NH residents.
some of us continue to be here to make sure a full-out e-lynching doesn't happen again.
it's become a no bullshit zone, at least on topix.
********
bobfather99
Chesterton, IN
Reply »|Report Abuse|Judge it!|#21231Sep 25, 2009
Just checking in with the gang for an update.
Im still alive and doing ok. Please update me on anything new, if theres anything to report.
Bob
"tip your bartender"

Snowy:
Along the lines of 'SimplyCaustic cracks open a Budweiser and hands it to Snowy'? Like, that kind of virtual bartender? Just want to make sure I'm reading this right. If I'm way off, I'm way off LOL

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

"Stronger people than she have ran at the threat of incarceration."

I agree, but she didn't have much money to run with. Running to a boyfriend, or someone else, and something went wrong? I don't believe that she could have stayed hidden for 8 years, do you?

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree, but she didn't have much money to run with. Running to a boyfriend, or someone else, and something went wrong? I don't believe that she could have stayed hidden for 8 years, do you?

No. But I think she may have been trying to run, when whatever DID happen, happened.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

<quoted text>
Snowy:
Along the lines of 'SimplyCaustic cracks open a Budweiser and hands it to Snowy'? Like, that kind of virtual bartender? Just want to make sure I'm reading this right. If I'm way off, I'm way off LOL

+1 What are the pointy boots for?

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

<quoted text>
No. But I think she may have been trying to run, when whatever DID happen, happened.

Ok, so we are on the same page.

OK, Trying to summarise somewhat:
There might have been several possible reasons for Maura´s perceived need to flee Amherst, MA - even driving a car which might or might not have been unreliable into the relative wilderness of central NH.
1. CC Fraud
2. The Vasi hit-and-run case (possibly involving Maura´s Saturn, with or without MM driving it at the time)
3. Possibly using drugs of some kind (and possibly being threatened in the context of the drug scene)
4. Possibly being in an abusive relationship with a "secret" boyfriend in or near Amherst,MA.
5. The possible risk of being jailed because of one or two of the points raised above.
6. Possibly being pregnant and perhaps not wishing to undergo an abortion in MA, but conceivably somewhere far away (Could "Death in the family" perhaps refer to a planned abortion?
I think that we can safely conclude that Maura likely perceived an imperative need to flee UMass and Amherst.
However, whether this had anything - directly or indirectly - to do with what happened to Maura after her crash on Rte 112 in NH is of course a completely different matter.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

Here's what I'm curious about.
Maura was on some form of probation - very likely pre-trial probation. Thus, she was arrested and booked. Why was the photograph given to Renner, the one from the file @ the dorm -the photo in front of the wall? Why not the mugshot? That's standard procedure, here at least, that the rap sheet as it's nicknamed, contains the arrested individual's mugshot. But also....with her being on pretrial probation, a DUI would have (not could have - WOULD have) resulted in some form of sanctions, whether it be short-term incarceration, stringent probation rules, etc. and COULD have resulted in the State's rescinding the offer of probation - and proceeding with the charges. The charges were set to be dismissed, per Renner, shortly after her disappearance. Having new criminal charges filed against her is an automatic violation of her probation. THUS....I wonder if the 'upsetting' phone call she rec'd could have been notification of another pending charge - like another student finding out she had used their credit card, for instance. Hell, the Vasi thing could be an option (I don't subscribe to that, but you never know).
My point is - she had a LOT to lose at this point in her life. Like, her freedom. Stronger people than she have caved under the threat incarceration.

I have those same questions. A final question for now, did you ever watch these videos? http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/02/fred-...
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

Jenkins wrote:

& one thing that we can be sure of is the fact that that car was not running on only 3 cylinders, that's just ridiculous. There is no way in hell that car would have made it up to Nh, at least not in the time she got there. If it was only running on 3 cylinders.
My first car ended up running on only 3 cylinders for a short time before I got rid of it and it could barely make it up hills in Ct, I remember literally driving 15 mph up a couple hills on the Merritt parkway, that was as fast as it could go. & I was a good driver, if my gf back then was driving it she wouldn't have even been able to make it up the hill.
If a far is running on 3 it will not start up and idle like had been described NY Fred and Billy, they said the car started up kist fine at lavoies.
Which also begs the question, why didn't she try to drive the car away? From what I can tell the car was messed up but there was no damage that made that car undriveable after that accident, there's nothing hitting the tires or anything like that.
I feel like there's a very strong circumstantial case for someone travelling in tandem with her up to Nh. Thing that proves it in my mind: the fact that the only bottle of liquor she took with her when she left the car was the bottle of kahlua. So who had the vodka and the milk?

totally agree on all points.
once statements are made...such as "3 cylinders"....they take on a life of their own.
i've always leaned toward someone traveling w/her in tandem.

If u think about it logically, she pretty much had to be travelling with somebody that night.
Think about this, she withdrew $280, & then spent 40 on liquor, which was clearly 2 different types of drinks good which generally would b for 2 different people. Honestly it reminds me exactly of what me and my girl in college would drink, she drank wine(often franzia) & I drank white russians.

So one of the last calls she made was to the salamones to Inquire about rentin a condo. This is a condo, not some little crappy motel room. How much do u think that condo was a night? Probably around 200, no way it's cheaper than 150. Come to think about it, there aren't even really any hotels in Nh thy r much cheaper than 100 a night.
The other places she looked? 1-800-go-Stowe. Do u really think you can get a room in Stowe for under 1-150? I don't.

So how was she even gonna pay for this room for the week long getaway as it's been described? Honestly those phone calls make no sense unless there was someone else owing along with her who had more money, she barely would've been able to stay one night and still have enough for gas to make it back to mass.
I think there had to be someone travelling with her, or someone she was planning on meeting.
I see it like this, she's in an abusive relationship and the phone call that made her catatonic was just a fight with this asshole. The only time I've ever seen college girls in that type of state is after a big fight w their bf.
I'd bet sometime on sunday she got in a fight with him and he ended up hitting her giving her a black eye. She's probably pissed at him but wicked embarrassed at the same time bc it's too bad to cover up with makeup. She would have to explain this to everyone she knows and rather than lie repeatedly to everyone she knows she instead lies to professors to give herself an excused absence from school so she can come back when she healed.
I can see this guy being like "oh we'll go to Nh for the week, I'll pay for us to get a nice condo and just go relax where you don't know anyone"
Probably not seeing much more of an option she agrees, and that could explain why she drove that car. Maybe she drove it up there be use she didn't want to be forced to be stuck with this asshole in case he got violent and she wanted to leave. If he's following behind her than she doesn't have to worry about her crappy car because she knows she won't be stuck if it does break down.
The one thing that seems obvious is after the accident, when she was talking to the sbd, she didn't seem very concerned about needing a ride or how she was gonna get to where she was going. Why not? Seems to me that if she was travelling alone that would be her #1 concern.

I would bet that when the truth finally comes out about this case, that is if it ever comes out, an abusive bf is going to be the real reason she left Amherst that day and I would bet she left Amherst with that same abusive bf.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

OK, Trying to summarise somewhat:
There might have been several possible reasons for Maura´s perceived need to flee Amherst, MA - even driving a car which might or might not have been unreliable into the relative wilderness of central NH.
1. CC Fraud
2. The Vasi hit-and-run case (possibly involving Maura´s Saturn, with or without MM driving it at the time)
3. Possibly using drugs of some kind (and possibly being threatened in the context of the drug scene)
4. Possibly being in an abusive relationship with a "secret" boyfriend in or near Amherst,MA.
5. The possible risk of being jailed because of one or two of the points raised above.
6. Possibly being pregnant and perhaps not wishing to undergo an abortion in MA, but conceivably somewhere far away (Could "Death in the family" perhaps refer to a planned abortion?
I think that we can safely conclude that Maura likely perceived an imperative need to flee UMass and Amherst.
However, whether this had anything - directly or indirectly - to do with what happened to Maura after her crash on Rte 112 in NH is of course a completely different matter.

You bring up an excellent point. When I had my wisdom teeth taken out in college, in 2003, I couldn't drive myself home. I had to have my roommate drive my car. I couldn't even take the El. I had to have a ride with me and stay there from when I went in the office 'til I left. I would imagine that an abortion is the same thing - correct me if I am wrong. Thus, if she were driving to have such a procedure done, it would make sense that she had someone following her (perhaps to a hotel/motel to stay at until the next morning when she had the procedure done). I wonder if the Londonderry ping could have been a clinic calling to confirm - or perhaps the motel? Or, maybe the friend wasn't following her but was going to meet her somewhere along the way - in which case, I would believe that she perished in the woods en route (which I kinda believe, anyway). Just some thoughts.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I have those same questions. A final question for now, did you ever watch these videos? http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/02/fred-...
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

No, but I surely will. Someone had stated that the defense's argument was persuasive - but in a case like this, the potential for a future prosecution is a tantalizing prospect for the State to dangle in front of the Judge, to really bolster their argument. I'm not surprised Fred lost.

Jenkins wrote:

If u think about it logically, she pretty much had to be travelling with somebody that night.
Think about this, she withdrew $280, & then spent 40 on liquor, which was clearly 2 different types of drinks good which generally would b for 2 different people. Honestly it reminds me exactly of what me and my girl in college would drink, she drank wine(often franzia) & I drank white russians.
So one of the last calls she made was to the salamones to Inquire about rentin a condo. This is a condo, not some little crappy motel room. How much do u think that condo was a night? Probably around 200, no way it's cheaper than 150. Come to think about it, there aren't even really any hotels in Nh thy r much cheaper than 100 a night.
The other places she looked? 1-800-go-Stowe. Do u really think you can get a room in Stowe for under 1-150? I don't.
So how was she even gonna pay for this room for the week long getaway as it's been described? Honestly those phone calls make no sense unless there was someone else owing along with her who had more money, she barely would've been able to stay one night and still have enough for gas to make it back to mass.
I think there had to be someone travelling with her, or someone she was planning on meeting.
I see it like this, she's in an abusive relationship and the phone call that made her catatonic was just a fight with this asshole. The only time I've ever seen college girls in that type of state is after a big fight w their bf.
I'd bet sometime on sunday she got in a fight with him and he ended up hitting her giving her a black eye. She's probably pissed at him but wicked embarrassed at the same time bc it's too bad to cover up with makeup. She would have to explain this to everyone she knows and rather than lie repeatedly to everyone she knows she instead lies to professors to give herself an excused absence from school so she can come back when she healed.
I can see this guy being like "oh we'll go to Nh for the week, I'll pay for us to get a nice condo and just go relax where you don't know anyone"
Probably not seeing much more of an option she agrees, and that could explain why she drove that car. Maybe she drove it up there be use she didn't want to be forced to be stuck with this asshole in case he got violent and she wanted to leave. If he's following behind her than she doesn't have to worry about her crappy car because she knows she won't be stuck if it does break down.
The one thing that seems obvious is after the accident, when she was talking to the sbd, she didn't seem very concerned about needing a ride or how she was gonna get to where she was going. Why not? Seems to me that if she was travelling alone that would be her #1 concern.
I would bet that when the truth finally comes out about this case, that is if it ever comes out, an abusive bf is going to be the real reason she left Amherst that day and I would bet she left Amherst with that same abusive bf.

Respectfully, I think the very fact that she was researching those locales as potential lodgings, illustrates how uninformed she was regarding the actual cost of hotels/motels/lodgings. Hell, when I was in my early twenties, I thought that I could get a hotel room downtown Chicago post-concert for about $75. I was only off by a hundred bucks or so.:) She was young - her father likely always paid for the lodgings, and I know in my experience, my parents never shared the details of the bill with me. Perhaps she THOUGHT she could afford it, initially: Hell, even with another person with her, she barely had enough to make it through two nights (if they went 'dutch' on the room and food). I don't discount that she likely had someone following her/meeting her/etc, but I don't know that her naivete on lodging fares can deduce that.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

<quoted text>
No, but I surely will. Someone had stated that the defense's argument was persuasive - but in a case like this, the potential for a future prosecution is a tantalizing prospect for the State to dangle in front of the Judge, to really bolster their argument. I'm not surprised Fred lost.

I wish there were more available about what happened once it was remanded back. Renner posted a few tidbits, but I'm dying to see the rest of what he has. I'm off for now. Later gator.:-)