Maura Murray

Emmett Dove wrote:

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No there is no normal :( when my wife passed, I went from good to bad almost instantly.. Started getting tattoos, etc.. & her father had never drank in his life, he passed a few years back drinkin.. There is no normal at all when you lose a family member, specially at a young age!! The rest of what u said.. I havent really thought about & dont want to comment on at this moment..
Im not gonna jump on the "hate Mr Murray" wagon just yet...

Damn bro, truly sorry for your loss. I couldn't imagine losing my girl.

I agree that there shouldn't be a "hate mr Murray" bandwagon just yet but there are some things that should make people take a closer look at him.

I'm sure LE has done this over and over and te fact that theyve ne'er publicly ruled him out speaks volumes IMO.
I wonder if they've ever had him under surveillance when he's doing his searches up here. Probably a good idea but I guess with the small population of Nh and the way the roads r it would b next to impossibly to tail someone without being made, so that would pretty much tell them nothing.

hannah_b wrote:

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People were kicked off the forum for just asking questions, not just for having the "wrong" opinion. That´s why I never registered, just lurked on both Helena´s forums.

Seriously? I saw your post about the Rule #1. Was that a joke? Sorry if I sound like an idiot, but it's hard to tell when someone is joking or not. I guess I should not be surprised.

amy researches wrote:

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Seriously? I saw your post about the Rule #1. Was that a joke? Sorry if I sound like an idiot, but it's hard to tell when someone is joking or not. I guess I should not be surprised.

No joke. That was the forum policy.

hannah_b wrote:

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Yes, I was. I´ve been following the case since the spring of 2006, actively posting since 2008. I guess Mason would know close family are usually the first ones to be checked out by LE. I still wonder did he have info this was not done with regards to FM?

Where did you get the info you posted a while back, that someone called her at 8:10? Was that from the old boards that are now deleted? Just wondering, because that's the first I heard of it. I'm only 8 years behind.:-)

Jenkins wrote:

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Damn bro, truly sorry for your loss. I couldn't imagine losing my girl.
I agree that there shouldn't be a "hate mr Murray" bandwagon just yet but there are some things that should make people take a closer look at him.
I'm sure LE has done this over and over and te fact that theyve ne'er publicly ruled him out speaks volumes IMO.
I wonder if they've ever had him under surveillance when he's doing his searches up here. Probably a good idea but I guess with the small population of Nh and the way the roads r it would b next to impossibly to tail someone without being made, so that would pretty much tell them nothing.

Thx brah!! July 1st 1998 :( my bday is July 9th.. Had 2 wait on her fam from Oklahoma & mine from Sicily so I spent my 20th bday at her funeral... I havent celebrated it since! Its really weird that he waited over 2 years to talk! Its weird that he wasnt ruled out!! But, & im not takin up for him, what would you do? I dont agree with most of all of it, but he was oldschool MA townie!!
I honestly dont know how to comment cus I can see both sides of this & I would hate to be wrong about him! Some weird stuff but something I cant answer!! Ill talk theories all night but I cant go that far..

Mason putting FM on trial online was one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen. Ironically, up until he did that, I had suspected FM to a degree. Mason's hit-job totally changed my mind about it. It was wrong and he shouldn't have done it, especially if he really believed FM was guilty. I don't think he did, I think someone hired him to do that hit-job.

amy researches wrote:

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Where did you get the info you posted a while back, that someone called her at 8:10? Was that from the old boards that are now deleted? Just wondering, because that's the first I heard of it. I'm only 8 years behind.:-)

From cell phone records shown on the ID Disappeared show.

Brilliant Brian wrote:

Mason putting FM on trial online was one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen. Ironically, up until he did that, I had suspected FM to a degree. Mason's hit-job totally changed my mind about it. It was wrong and he shouldn't have done it, especially if he really believed FM was guilty. I don't think he did, I think someone hired him to do that hit-job.

Mason isnt far from me.. If someone did hire him for that & all the time he spent.. It wasnt cheap by any means!! Your talking a few hundred grand!! Mr. Leatherman was one of the best CDLs in the south!! It would make sense to hire someone that far away, but alot of money just to say that stuff? I read everything he posted thats still on the net.. He spent time on it & hes not cheap!! Hell, even some small things to be looked at & put on his blog cost alot!!

hannah_b wrote:

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From cell phone records shown on the ID Disappeared show.

Oh! Thank you, Hannah. I have that show saved on my computer. I should watch it again. It's been a while.

It's too bad the old forums aren't archived someplace, so people could still read them. Did anyone save them? Simply Caustic asked that the other day, but I didn't see if anyone responded.

Emmett Dove wrote:

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Mason isnt far from me.. If someone did hire him for that & all the time he spent.. It wasnt cheap by any means!! Your talking a few hundred grand!! Mr. Leatherman was one of the best CDLs in the south!! It would make sense to hire someone that far away, but alot of money just to say that stuff? I read everything he posted thats still on the net.. He spent time on it & hes not cheap!! Hell, even some small things to be looked at & put on his blog cost alot!!

A CDL prosecuting someone online. Talk about irony.

Emmett Dove wrote:

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Mason isnt far from me.. If someone did hire him for that & all the time he spent.. It wasnt cheap by any means!! Your talking a few hundred grand!! Mr. Leatherman was one of the best CDLs in the south!! It would make sense to hire someone that far away, but alot of money just to say that stuff? I read everything he posted thats still on the net.. He spent time on it & hes not cheap!! Hell, even some small things to be looked at & put on his blog cost alot!!

It would be unethical for a lawyer to be paid to request records from the family, which I understand he did, and not disclose who he's working for. I don't think he was even still practicing at that time. I find it highly unlikely that he was paid to do something like that. JMHO

6. January 18, 2009: I posted this message on the new site in the thread entitled Character Assassination and Gossip:“I have never posted under any other name than Mason since I started using the internet many years ago. I am not afraid to own anything I've said and I accept full responsibility for what I've said and will continue to say on this site.” 7. February 9, 2009: I sent the following PM to Dawn.“On Friday, January 30th, when almost everyone in western Kentucky was without heat, electricity, telephone service, and access to the internet including me, you posted the following false information on the Topix site.“1. Any updates on Gary Ridgeways attorney? You know he has a horrible reputation.(Message # 13166, p. 654) 2. Keep in mind the DEFENSE attorney for Gary Ridgeway would NOT let people know where his home address or town was located. This guy has a target on his back and always will for DEFENDING a cold blooded murderer. He would not use the public internet either. Dedicated connection so those that are looking for him - can't find him. Believe me – a lot of families are looking for him." (Message # 13168, p. 654) 3. Although I do think it was a brilliant attempt at diversion. Picked the wrong attorney to impersonate.(Message # 13171, p. 654) 4. He was briefly in Kentucky......... there is another Fred Leatherman there..... not the one you are looking for.( Message # 13173, p. 654) My power was not restored until a few days ago and my cable service was restored yesterday. I read your remarks today and I'm not surprised that you selected a time when I was unlikely to read and contradict your false statements. I expect you to post messages on this site and Topix retracting your false statements and apologizing to me. You also need to see a counselor because your persistent and factually unsupported obsession to convince everyone on both sites that I am not the person I claim to be is irrational. I have politely asked you several times to stop this nonsense and you have willfully refused. If you're looking to be sued for libel, you're doing a damn good burrito.”(My Comment: Her statement that I have “a horrible reputation” is false. The correct spelling is Ridgway. I was one of eight lawyers appointed to represent Mr. Ridgway at public expense. We do not have targets on our backs and I do not fear retaliation by a member of a victim’s family. Mr. Ridgway pled guilty to 48 counts of Aggravated Murder in exchange for a sentence to life in prison without possibility of parole.)

8. February 10, 2009: I sent this PM to Dawn. “I do not fear reprisals from anyone and I do not feel the need to change the way I connect to the internet. You said some nasty things about me. I have an excellent reputation as a lawyer and I'm proud of my thirty years of service to the public. You said I have a bad reputation and a lot of people are after me. That is BS. I also am proud of the burrito I've done teaching. Disagree with me all you want but don't spread lies about me and stop with the nonsense that I am not the person I claim to be. I am sick of it.” 9. On February 10, 2009, Dawn replied with the following PM. “I would look into using a dedicated service. Look it up. DSL uses the public internet - people have and can access information on DSL. In fact this year medical offices are required to switch from DSL to internet ports due to security. It is not that expensive - for financial and personal data highly recommended. Also the storm happened after I posted the information. I kept waiting for a reply. At least back me up on the search warrant piece. Show your legal expertise.” (My Comment: Since I am not a circus animal trained to perform on command, I ignored her insulting request.) 10. On February 10, 2009, Dawn also posted Topix Message # 13742 at page 682, “ Mason et al Since Mason sent me a PM saying if I am looking to be sued for libel - I am doing a great burrito. My personal opinion - freedom of speech I still do not believe he is who he states he is. My opinion. I do agree Gary Ridgeway was a cold blooded murderer. Hence - his conviction with DNA to prove it.” (My comment: Mr. Ridgway was convicted because he pled guilty. I never claimed otherwise on these forums.) 11. The Washington State Bar Association lists my current home address and cellular telephone number in Paducah, KY, as well as my Yahoo email address. If a person googles “Fred Leatherman, Attorney” the first twenty entries refer to me. Additional references to me appear on subsequent pages, but they are mixed with references to other people with my surname. The cell phone number on the WSBA website matches the cell phone number that I posted for everyone on the new site on January 17th. The email address listed on the WSBA website matches the email address that I provided to Dawn in my PM on January 8th and to the group on January 17th. 12. Detective Columbo and I have exchanged PMs on January 18, 21, and 25. We also exchanged voicemail telephone messages. He made the first call, so he knew how to reach me. I agreed to meet with him in Paducah, KY, but he was too busy to make the trip. 13. Dawn’s statements that I have a bad reputation and a lot of people are after me are absolutely false. I have an ironclad cause of action against her for libel per se because she has damaged my business reputation. She has no defense under the First Amendment because I am not a public official or a public figure.

I do not need to prove that she intentionally or recklessly published her false statement. I only need to prove that she was negligent. Her failure to check-out the readily obtainable information about me was negligent. Therefore, the only issue is the amount of damages. Nevertheless, she has not retracted or apologized for the false statements and she has not attempted to contact me by email or phone. She did, however, implicitly concede that I am the person I claim to be with this request in her PM on February 10, 2009.“At least back me up on the search warrant piece. Show your legal expertise.” 14. John inserted himself into this unpleasantness by supporting Dawn’s false claim that I am not Fred Leatherman. He approved of her attacks because her actions were protecting the “real” Fred Leatherman’s reputation. John’s attack began with his response to a post by Lady Gray.(My Comment: I may have a theoretical claim against Dawn and John for libel based on their false statements that I am not myself, but the monetary damages are too speculative to justify pursuing these claims.) 15. On February 10, 2009, Lady Gray posted Topix Message # 13826, at page 686,“Oh oh, wait....one more thing. Mr. Leatherman, I worked side-by-side with attorneys for 25 years. Big law firms. International law firm. Nice professional working relationships. I find you incredulous in the fact that you profess to be an esquire. You have lost your professionalism. Are you licensed in the State of Kentucky? Do you practice there? Is your license still current in the State of Washington? Ever heard of such a thing as ethics in a professional capacity? You certainly don't employ them in the public forum for all to see. Are you reallllyyyyyyyy Fred Leatherman????” 16. On February 10, 2009, John responded to her post with Topix Message # 13833, at page 687.“I would like to add to this fine post that - being an experience attorney myself - that are some rhetorical give aways that Mason probably is not an attorney. Why are so many people living out fantasies about themselves in the context of a forum concerning such a tragic incident?” 17. On February 11, 2009, I responded to Lady Gray in Topix Message # 13848, at page 688.“I am a member of the Washington State Bar Association. I changed my membership status from active to inactive because I retired from the practice of law at the end of 2004. I am now a law professor. I am not a member of the Kentucky Bar Association because I do not practice law here and have no need for a license.” 18. On February 11, 2009, John posted his response to my message with Topix Message #13911, at page 691.“Curious, where are you a law professor? U Dub? Seattle Pacific?”(My Comment: Seattle Pacific University does not have a law school. Presumably, he was thinking of Seattle University. Is John the only person who does not realize that I live in Paducah, KY? How could he possibly be confused about that? Giving him the benefit of the doubt since he is a newbie to this site, he may have made an innocent mistake. However, asserting the newbie defense causes me to wonder why he so enthusiastically supported Lady Gray’s hostile and groundless personal attack against me in which she falsely accused me of unethical behavior in Topix Message # 13826, at page 686, which is set forth in paragraph 15, and his hostile, insulting, and quite personal attack against me in Topix Message # 13833, at page 687, where he said,“Why are so many people living out fantasies about themselves in the context of a forum concerning such a tragic incident?” See paragraph 16) 19. On February 11, 2009

Brilliant Brian wrote:

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A CDL prosecuting someone online. Talk about irony.

If you're on Twitter, you should look at some of the CDLs I follow on there. Most I know personally, as in I've sat down and broken bread with their families. CDLs, in general, are some real goofballs. They do strange things in their spare time.:-)

Firecat answered his question with Topix Message # 13917, at page 691.“John, he's since moved to Kentucky. A quick Google search will answer all your questions. Well, maybe not all, on second thought.” 20. On February 11, 2009, John said in Topix Message # 13936, at page 692.“Oh, I thought he said he left Kentucky and was teaching in WA. Thanks.”(My Comment: Innocent mistake or intentional obfuscation?) 21. On February 12, 2009, responding to a post by Dawn in which she mentioned that she lives in Seattle, John said in Topix Message # 14068, at page 698,“Your tag says Omaha so I did not know you are from Seattle. That is where I went to law school. LOVELY beautiful awesome city.” 22. On February 12, 2009, Firecat noted in Topix Message # 14092, at page 700,“Aha!!! THAT'S why you were asking Mason if he taught at U-dub or at SPU.”(My Comment: Maybe she is right and maybe she isn’t) 23. On February 12, 2009, John responded to Firecat in Topix Message # 14101, at page 700,“Yes, I did not believe that he was an attorney. I thought he was saying he taught law in Seattle. I wanted to see if he said U Dub as that is where I went and I would be able to easily discover if he were lying about that. But the group seems to believe that he is in fact a lawyer, so perhaps I will shut my cynical bacon up.”(My Comment: in Topix Message # 13848, at page 688, I said:“I am a member of the Washington State Bar Association. I changed my membership status from active to inactive because I retired from the practice of law at the end of 2004. I am now a law professor. I am not a member of the Kentucky Bar Association because I do not practice law here and have no need for a license.” See paragraph 17. How could John have innocently misconstrued my post as an assertion that I live and teach law in Seattle? I do not believe him.) 24. On February 12, 2009, I responded to John in Topix Message # 14122, at page 701.“I don't know when you attended the U DUB, but I co-founded Innocence Project Northwest there with Professor Jackie McMurtrie in 1997. I recruited the 40 lawyers in private practice and I organized the lawyers and law students into teams that represented pro bono 17 innocent people who were wrongfully convicted in the Wenatchee kitchen Ring witch hunt prosecutions in the early to mid-nineties. Jackie supervised their work.” 25. On February 12, 2009, John responded in Topix Message # 14128, page 701.“I was there 92-95. I knew Jackie McMurtrey, but not well. She was teaching there then but had only graduated a short time before. Enough said, your credibility is established. My apologies for having doubted your claim of being an attorney.”(Comment: The professor’s name is spelled McMurtrie and I was willing to accept his word.) 26. On February 12, 2009 Firecat responded to John’s Topix Message # 14101 (see paragraph 23) with Topix Message # 14135, at page 702.“Well, let's just say the jury is not back on that yet. Have you checked out the "other" forum yet? 27. On February 12, 2009, John responded to my Topix Message # 14122 (see paragraph 24) with Topix Message # 14141, at page 702.“Feeling like if I think about it I am going to remember who you are, either because you were there when I was or because I probably read your name in Columns as I read an article about the Innocence project on it.” 28. On February 12, 2009, John responded to Firecat’s Topix Message # 14135 (see paragraph 26) with Topix Message # 14143, at page 702.“Actually, based on what he just said to me, he is either who he said he is or he is posing pretty credibly as a specific person I know to exist.

amy researches wrote:

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It would be unethical for a lawyer to be paid to request records from the family, which I understand he did, and not disclose who he's working for. I don't think he was even still practicing at that time. I find it highly unlikely that he was paid to do something like that. JMHO

If he wasn't practicing then why would it be unethical? To whom? A lot of people think what he did on the forum was unethical...

Please don't paste that shit here. We can read it there if we want.

Emmett Dove wrote:

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Thx brah!! July 1st 1998 :( my bday is July 9th.. Had 2 wait on her fam from Oklahoma & mine from Sicily so I spent my 20th bday at her funeral... I havent celebrated it since! Its really weird that he waited over 2 years to talk! Its weird that he wasnt ruled out!! But, & im not takin up for him, what would you do? I dont agree with most of all of it, but he was oldschool MA townie!!
I honestly dont know how to comment cus I can see both sides of this & I would hate to be wrong about him! Some weird stuff but something I cant answer!! Ill talk theories all night but I cant go that far..

Damn dude, shitty birthday huh? I can relate, 2 yrs ago my dad and my dog both died on my birthday...that day just doesn't have the same meaning anymore for me.

As for Fred your totally right and I can see both sides too, that's what I meant by saying I don't think there necessarily should be a hate mr Murray bandwagon, at least not just yet.

But I'd you've been sound since the beginning I think you might have a different take like I do. I was on the orig mm site and then the mmm site and the whole family was made out to be saints. I remember even arguing that the FBI should be brought in.
But now I feel like I was totally scammed by Fred. He is definitely good at spin and made it out like he was left out in the cold by Nh LE and I filly supported him, but then I also assumed that he had sat down for many official interviews w LE and he was ruled out.
Then I come to find out that he didn't sit down for a real interview for 2 years after and brought 2 lawyers with him when he finally did.
I was appalled when I found that out an honestly felt like an idiot for supporting him and jumping on LE so bad.
You will never get me to say that Nh LE r good at investigating things or they did a great job in this case but it looks like they did pretty much as good of a job as they could considering the circumstances. There was definitely a few key things they didnt do but for the most part they have investigated the case fully.
Major crimes was brought in within 2 days but listening to fred in the first 2 yrs u would think that nobody even bothered to look.

I'm not ready to say Fred is resonsivle but I am saying that I feel completely scammed by the guy, he def tricked me. That leads me to my thinking of what else did he trick us about ad ten the 2 days when Maura went missing he was Bo where to be found, that's after telling Maura to call him bc he would be Around. Hmmmm

Brilliant Brian wrote:

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If he wasn't practicing then why would it be unethical? To whom? A lot of people think what he did on the forum was unethical...

I am talking about legal ethics, the stuff that gets you disbarred. Not people's personal opinions of what is ethical in general. If he was indeed not practicing, that means he has no current law license and cannot take on clients. Are you suggesting that someone paid him in some non-lawyer capacity to do this? Not trying to be rude. I just don't think I understood what you meant.