Maura Murray

jwb wrote:

how about the idea that Maura had an emergency flashlight and what FW saw was the lit up red platic back end?

I think that's a good deal more likely than a cigarette or a phone but I still struggle to see why it especially matters.

Is there a reason why it might be important? It's a genuine question: I dip in and out and scan read aplenty.

jwb wrote:

<quoted text> with all respect wth, Columbo did say damage to the drivers side and not the passenger side.

CORRECT, as I read it Det. Columbo wrote:

"That object pushed in the hood and crumpled it TOWARDS the Left passengers side..."

Free eye examinations, today only at Topix.com !

AcidHouseMartin wrote:

<quoted text>
I think that's a good deal more likely than a cigarette or a phone but I still struggle to see why it especially matters.
Is there a reason why it might be important? It's a genuine question: I dip in and out and scan read aplenty.

I think it just goes back to the question of whether or not anyone else was in the car with her smoking a cigarette.

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
I think it just goes back to the question of whether or not anyone else was in the car with her smoking a cigarette.

JWB - I'm pretty confident no one was in the car with Maura. When a car airbag is deployed it puts a lot of garabage in the air that you don't want to breath in. The last thing you would want to do is stay in the car. Therefore anyone driving bye would have saw the Mystery person.

Also if there was another accident it would have happened only in a short time frame. Because she was on the road for three hours or so. I'm not sure how many people are quick to continue a drive when a airbag blows out in their face. An airbag is a captured explosion in a bag meant to stop the kinetic energy of a body from moving forward. An airbag can hit you so hard it can do serious damage. The chemicals from the aftermath of the explosions can cause lung damage. I doubt anyone would stay in the car or want to light up right after that. Just my opinion.

WAS the Saturn locked or were the doors (wide) open? If there was indeed a crime scene inside or outside the car, was it tainted by LE from the get-go?

From the SOCO article, April, 2011:

"North Haverhill resident Susan Champy, who drove by the scene of Maura’s accident, also recalled the road conditions that night.“The weather was cold, 15-20 degrees and maybe light flurries, but I do not remember it snowing that night. Her car did not have any snow on it,” Champy said.

"When she drove by, Champy remembered noticing that police officers had one of the doors of Maura’s car open. She recalled reading in the newspaper afterward that they’d obtained a search warrant the next day to search the vehicle, which mad her wonder whether they should have had the door open without first getting a search warrant.

"Champy was scheduled to finish work at 7PM At the Loon Mountain Club the evening of Feb. 9, but she left late, at 7:20PM, and had a 30 to 35 minute commute home. She drove by the scene of Maura’s accident around 7:50PM, she recalled, where she saw police and a couple of bystanders near the car.

"After learning about Maura’s disappearance in the news, Champy said she has always wondered if she may have seen Maura and perhaps been able to give her a ride somewhere or help her, had she only left work on time."

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
I think it just goes back to the question of whether or not anyone else was in the car with her smoking a cigarette.

Thank you.

Why do people think someone might have been in the car with her? Eloping for a new life without a vehicle or causing someone harm without a means of fleeing the scene both sound highly improbable acts even for someone desperate.

I can't imagine a person who thought either was a good move evading discovery for eight years. I doubt anyone that daft could get dressed each day unscathed.

a little off the topic but here it goes: sorry I don't have the time lines handy on this computer:

Fw called in at 7:27 and she saw sbd as she was on the phone with LE . The sbd said that maura appeared fine but she was shivering. If Maura was already shivering at that point, then when did the accident first take place? 15-20 min prior? She wouldn't have been shivering as soon as she crashed her car.

AcidHouseMartin wrote:

<quoted text>
Thank you.
Why do people think someone might have been in the car with her? Eloping for a new life without a vehicle or causing someone harm without a means of fleeing the scene both sound highly improbable acts even for someone desperate.
I can't imagine a person who thought either was a good move evading discovery for eight years. I doubt anyone that daft could get dressed each day unscathed.

It was just based on the witness FW saying she thought she saw a man in the car smoking a cigg

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
It was just based on the witness FW saying she thought she saw a man in the car smoking a cigg

Thanks again. I see nothing to suggest that particular testimony was particularly reliable.

AcidHouseMartin wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks again. I see nothing to suggest that particular testimony was particularly reliable.

agree, unless LE picked up Butts at the scene and we will never know

jwb wrote:

Fw called in at 7:27 and she saw sbd as she was on the phone with LE . The sbd said that maura appeared fine but she was shivering. If Maura was already shivering at that point, then when did the accident first take place? 15-20 min prior? She wouldn't have been shivering as soon as she crashed her car.

Maybe the heat went out in the car en route? Unless she was shivering out of fear or she had been there for 10, 15, or 20 minutes.

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
If I had just received a brand new flip phone with a color display for Christmas I probably would not have opted to make the display orange.
In the dark, at 75 feet away, it's easy to tell the difference between a lit cigarette and a cell phone with a color display. We tried it and there's no confusing the two.

I'm glad someone tried it bc that's what I was saying, how do u confuse someone casually smoking a cig and someone trying to use their phone? Totally different kind of glow, totally differen movements..I just don't see how that could b confused but I guess anythings possibl

Frosty , you should post your cigarette and cell phone experiment on you tube, Maybe start the Frosty Channel?

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm glad someone tried it bc that's what I was saying, how do u confuse someone casually smoking a cig and someone trying to use their phone? Totally different kind of glow, totally differen movements..I just don't see how that could b confused but I guess anythings possibl

Agree. It may not be 100% about the red light or the glow. You might see smoke emanating or the hand motions.

jwb wrote:

Frosty , you should post your cigarette and cell phone experiment on you tube, Maybe start the Frosty Channel?

You go first!

jwb wrote:

a little off the topic but here it goes: sorry I don't have the time lines handy on this computer:
Fw called in at 7:27 and she saw sbd as she was on the phone with LE . The sbd said that maura appeared fine but she was shivering. If Maura was already shivering at that point, then when did the accident first take place? 15-20 min prior? She wouldn't have been shivering as soon as she crashed her car.

Shivering could be a symptom of shock.

Actually, excessive alcohol users and pregnant women are more at risk of shock.

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
You go first!

I don't smoke

hannah_b wrote:

<quoted text>
Shivering could be a symptom of shock.

good point Hannah

Frostman wrote:

WAS the Saturn locked or were the doors (wide) open? If there was indeed a crime scene inside or outside the car, was it tainted by LE from the get-go?
From the SOCO article, April, 2011:
"North Haverhill resident Susan Champy, who drove by the scene of Maura’s accident, also recalled the road conditions that night.“The weather was cold, 15-20 degrees and maybe light flurries, but I do not remember it snowing that night. Her car did not have any snow on it,” Champy said.
"When she drove by, Champy remembered noticing that police officers had one of the doors of Maura’s car open. She recalled reading in the newspaper afterward that they’d obtained a search warrant the next day to search the vehicle, which mad her wonder whether they should have had the door open without first getting a search warrant.
"Champy was scheduled to finish work at 7PM At the Loon Mountain Club the evening of Feb. 9, but she left late, at 7:20PM, and had a 30 to 35 minute commute home. She drove by the scene of Maura’s accident around 7:50PM, she recalled, where she saw police and a couple of bystanders near the car.
"After learning about Maura’s disappearance in the news, Champy said she has always wondered if she may have seen Maura and perhaps been able to give her a ride somewhere or help her, had she only left work on time."

That puts her going by just about 4 minutes before the BOL was put out and 6 minutes before EMS and FD arrived.

So were the doors of the saturn open befor EMS and FD arr.?

John