Maura Murray

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jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#17160
Mar 22, 2012
 
Lighthouse 101 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no idea. I could see suicide, or she wasn't of clear mind after the crash she took off and died accidentally in the woods because of the shame of the crash and what was going on in her life.
Maybe the family is hiding the fact that she is suicidal. People close to her would feel guilt if that was the case. Maybe by them thinking she was murdered it makes them feel less emotionally responsible.
I don't think my opinion is stronger than anyone elses. I also try to keep an open mind to absorb anything else that they may find. If you have a solid idea in your head you may start to bend facts to work with your opinion.
Thank you for your feedback.

If she was going to commit suicide then why would she go back to an area that is more inhabited etc..east would make more sense to me with that scenario. JMO throwing thoughts out as all. I am open to all points of view.
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#17161
Mar 22, 2012
 
jwb wrote:
<quoted text>
If all reasoning skills where abandoned as you say-then all bets are off and she might have accepted a ride.
if so, she then made a choice, with all attending consequences realized. so far, no one has proven that she did or did not make that choice.
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#17162
Mar 22, 2012
 
jwb wrote:
people do make bad choices at times. We all make mistakes it is part of being human.when you are 20 as a rule you tend to make more mistakes and poor choices (not always). Maura made some bad choices that day no question about it. That doesn't mean that you don't give your full effort and time trying to find her.
When someone makes a bad choice while hiking on the mountains up here and gets lost do you just say oh well, they made a mistake and we have no obligation to look for them.
I would hope that no matter if a good or bad choice was made that the same search effort was given .
who said any continued "search", by whatever means, should be abandoned?
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#17163
Mar 22, 2012
 
Snowy wrote:
<quoted text>
if so, she then made a choice, with all attending consequences realized. so far, no one has proven that she did or did not make that choice.
I don't get your point? Are you saying if she made a choice to get into a car and was later murdered -then oh well she deserved it and we need not try and find the person (s) who did it?. I hope that is not what you are implying.
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#17164
Mar 22, 2012
 
Snowy wrote:
<quoted text>
who said any continued "search", by whatever means, should be abandoned?
you keep on point about "Choice" how does that matter? She is missing period.
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#17165
Mar 22, 2012
 
WTH writes:

"Yep, there are those out there who think when people make bad decisions that we will call out the National Guard, Search and Rescue teams, State Police, Fish and Game, K9 teams, Helicopters, and Boy scouts."

I say , what does a good or bad decision have to do with finding someone that is missing? I hope that doesn't determine the type of search given?

Since: Oct 08

Lowell, MA

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#17166
Mar 22, 2012
 

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How are you going to hear 'Help' coming from someone in a car in the Winter with the windows rolled up, if in fact she was taken. You're not going to be hearing 'Help' or anything else for that matter.

Also she didn't accept the ride with SBD, so it sort of follows that she's not going to go up to one of the residences in the area asking for help She didn't want help, she seemed like she just wanted to get away from that scene immediately for what could be a variety of reasons that we've gone over before 5,000 times. No, it does not make much sense that she got in to a car with someone if she refused the help from SBD, but if it was someone she knew or recognized, then yes, and that could have been exactly where the dogs lost the scent, at the point of entering that car/truck.

I wish I had the guest list from that New Year's Eve party in Goshen.

Since: Nov 08

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#17167
Mar 22, 2012
 
jwb wrote:
<quoted text>
Her scent went east correct? If she went west would the dogs have followed her scent east? just asking, I don't have expertise in that area.
Absolutely. Depends on the prevailing winds. What direction and strength and how long. I have watched dogs track me (my scent) going way off course. Then when they are downwind and turn straight for me. It also makes sense the the scent would be funneled in one direction or the opposite on the road as opposed to in the woods. Not impossible, but IMHO, far more likely. These are air scent dogs I am talking about. If they are tracking dogs, dogs that operate with their noses on the ground, they are less prone to these affects because the rafts of scent that they track are not in the air, they are already on the ground. I don't remember they types of dogs used other than they were scent discriminatory. i.e they were specifically tracking (at least the one I am familiar with) Maura and no one else. Again, little information on any of the searches was released and even less that I actually trust the source. I am familiar with the dog NEK9 used and Nancy who sadly passed away last year. I am also familiar with and have worked with CCSAR, the people and dogs. I have opinions on both the groups based upon what I have seen working with them and other groups not used. I am not familiar with any of the other dogs or handlers used in these searches (other than the ones mentioned) and don't know their capabilities.

Bill

Since: Nov 08

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#17168
Mar 22, 2012
 

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jwb wrote:
WTH writes:
"Yep, there are those out there who think when people make bad decisions that we will call out the National Guard, Search and Rescue teams, State Police, Fish and Game, K9 teams, Helicopters, and Boy scouts."
I say , what does a good or bad decision have to do with finding someone that is missing? I hope that doesn't determine the type of search given?
A good decision is waiting at the car. No need for a search. By the time you realize you need a search, in these types of cases, it is likely too late for a search to actually help.

For all of you who think running from the car is a good idea. She is the poster child for why running from the car is a bad decision. Wait at the car. Take your lumps.

Bill
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#17169
Mar 22, 2012
 
WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely. Depends on the prevailing winds. What direction and strength and how long. I have watched dogs track me (my scent) going way off course. Then when they are downwind and turn straight for me. It also makes sense the the scent would be funneled in one direction or the opposite on the road as opposed to in the woods. Not impossible, but IMHO, far more likely. These are air scent dogs I am talking about. If they are tracking dogs, dogs that operate with their noses on the ground, they are less prone to these affects because the rafts of scent that they track are not in the air, they are already on the ground. I don't remember they types of dogs used other than they were scent discriminatory. i.e they were specifically tracking (at least the one I am familiar with) Maura and no one else. Again, little information on any of the searches was released and even less that I actually trust the source. I am familiar with the dog NEK9 used and Nancy who sadly passed away last year. I am also familiar with and have worked with CCSAR, the people and dogs. I have opinions on both the groups based upon what I have seen working with them and other groups not used. I am not familiar with any of the other dogs or handlers used in these searches (other than the ones mentioned) and don't know their capabilities.
Bill
WTH < thank you for your response very informative
George

Washington, DC

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#17170
Mar 22, 2012
 

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Who knows? She may be in the witness protection program.
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#17171
Mar 22, 2012
 
WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
A good decision is waiting at the car. No need for a search. By the time you realize you need a search, in these types of cases, it is likely too late for a search to actually help.
For all of you who think running from the car is a good idea. She is the poster child for why running from the car is a bad decision. Wait at the car. Take your lumps.
Bill
No question,she should have stayed at the car, but that is not the case here. That doesn't or shouldn't determine the type of search effort given.
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#17172
Mar 22, 2012
 
gotta run thanks for the conversation. I'll check in tonight.
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#17173
Mar 22, 2012
 

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just to dovetail with the E/W debate from the perspective of an overview....i believe the discussion had merit only in the immediate aftermath of the accident scene/car slid off road.
now that she's been gone for eight years, there is no returning to or reversing the assessments made by LE and emergency personnel that evening.

at the very least, Fred Murray's "dirtbag theory" serves to shift the blame away from the circumstances under with Maura chose to travel to NH, and then, unfortunately, disappear, supposedly without telling anyone where she was going, and without anyone coming forward to explain the obvious distress she exhibited after the infamous phone call she received while working dorm security.

DC makes a strong, persistent effort in daily appearances here, with the support of others, to imply NH law enforcement was inept (which may very well be so...or not...i don't know) for failing to immediately locate FM's daughter at the scene of her crashed/slid off the road car.

if it was a random abduction, the identity of the abductor/dirtbag, not necessarily local, remains a mystery.

i believe the better focus would be to know where she was headed, and/or with whom she might have traveled, and especially to know the status of all of her relationships at that time. it might go a long way to explain why she left/ran from Amherst.
Fred Murray, according to James Renner, has effectively shut down those communications, both to him and to the public.
and, yet, there has been evidence of trouble in her life; enough to interfere with and possibly run from.

as citizens, we choose to live in certain locations and rely on the varied levels of provisions made for emergency services; they may be far from perfect.
i feel, with some certainty, however, that those workers evaluated what was before them and made appropriate decisions.
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#17174
Mar 22, 2012
 

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jwb wrote:
<quoted text>
you keep on point about "Choice" how does that matter? She is missing period.
then you are failing to separate the issues.

yes, she is missing, and she made a number of choices that would deter from safety.
poor choices and good choices are necessarily followed by consequences for having made those choices.

to points of poor choices made, Maura did not alert family or friends to her intended whereabouts, apparently before setting off on an ill-timed trip to NH, especially considering she had academic obligations to meet that week.

secondly, she refused an immediate offer of help from the SBD.

thirdly, she failed to remain with her car to avail herself of additional assistance.

and lastly, she did not opt to find assistance from nearby residences; they were well-lit and available.

any or all of those choices may have resulted in undesired consequences for her.

a forever-search for her is an entirely separate matter; no one is asking for a forever-search to be discontinued.
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#17175
Mar 22, 2012
 

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Laurieisgone wrote:
How are you going to hear 'Help' coming from someone in a car in the Winter with the windows rolled up, if in fact she was taken. You're not going to be hearing 'Help' or anything else for that matter.
Also she didn't accept the ride with SBD, so it sort of follows that she's not going to go up to one of the residences in the area asking for help She didn't want help, she seemed like she just wanted to get away from that scene immediately for what could be a variety of reasons that we've gone over before 5,000 times. No, it does not make much sense that she got in to a car with someone if she refused the help from SBD, but if it was someone she knew or recognized, then yes, and that could have been exactly where the dogs lost the scent, at the point of entering that car/truck.
I wish I had the guest list from that New Year's Eve party in Goshen.
to my understanding, there were no physical signs of a struggle in the immediate area of her disappearance.
passers-by and neighbors could have been alerted to the sounds of a scuffle, a blowing horn or a scream for help; evidence of articles of clothing or possessions left behind in the vicinity might have been obvious signs of a struggle. there were none.

correct. she didn't want help. she must have had another plan in mind.

Since: Nov 08

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#17176
Mar 22, 2012
 
jwb wrote:
<quoted text>
No question,she should have stayed at the car, but that is not the case here. That doesn't or shouldn't determine the type of search effort given.
You are not reading what I am writing. It has nothing to do with the search effort. Your best bet is preventing the need for a search because if you need one in these types of cases it is likely too late for a search to actually help.

If she was out in the woods somewhere, by the time they started the other searches (couple of days), does anyone believe that it would be anything but a recovery if she was found?

Searches for people who are stable are not an emergency. Dead people are considered stable. Their condition isn't going to deteriorate. We don't risk rescuers life and limbs in bad conditions/night searches/etc for people who are stable. That WILL effect the type and haste of the search.

Bill

Since: Mar 11

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#17177
Mar 22, 2012
 

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This article doesnt mention but Ms. Bello's car was damaged when found at the post office.
It goes to show how easy it is to "walk away".
http://www.q13fox.com/news/kcpq-washington-wo...
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#17178
Mar 22, 2012
 

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jwb wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't get your point? Are you saying if she made a choice to get into a car and was later murdered -then oh well she deserved it and we need not try and find the person (s) who did it?. I hope that is not what you are implying.
i have neither used nor have i implied the word "deserved".
i if intended to, i would have said it outright.

whether or not she was murdered, an official investigation by law enforcement authorities has been underway.

i sense that you fancy an unofficial, secondary investigation is useful to authorities, and that that should be carried out on this forum, or Websleuths or FB.
to that end, James Renner has also taken that position, and is also conducting an investigation.

“"CONFUSION CENTRAL"”

Since: Dec 11

Franconia NH

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#17179
Mar 22, 2012
 

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NO LE, FD, EMS whether in Emergency vehicles or private vehicles came from the east that evening. This is per interviews with all of the above.

It was stated by LE themselves that they did not search to the east that night past BHR.

This direction should not have been ruled out that early in the investigation.

How did they decide that going to the east was not a reasonable egress of the scene?

Sorry WTH....You are wrong...but maybe IF You were there that night things might have gone differently with your input.

OH NO that just would have been one more person saying, "WE don't need to go east, why would She go east, Her car was headed east but She probably went west, but She was running from the scene, maybe She did go east. NO

Maybe it was Fred Murray driving Smith says or did You see the girl that was driving the car or maybe She went to Mtn lakes or snowmobiling.

Don't go east....NO REASON....NOPE NONE AT ALL.

Give Me a break

John

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