Maura Murray

Bumping for Maura wrote:

<quoted text>
backspace,
IIRC it has been said, correct or not, that a neighbour (Mr M-e) across Rte 112 from the SBD observed the SBD backing his bus into his yard with the front facing Rte 112/BHR.
Apparently Mr M-e thought this manouevre somewhat unusual as the SBD otherwise - or so it´s being claimed anyway - normally parked his school bus in his yard along Rte 112 with the front facing west (towards the WB curve).
This is confusing for sure, but I believe this is what I´ve been reading repeatedly over the last few years following the MM case.

I believe you are correct. That is why I thought that. Also, wheeper stated he stood in SBD yard facing 112 to see if the sbd could have id'ed cars/trucks going by and he believed he could. I could have read it wrong. Do you think if he did park as Captain Jack stated could he have seen Maura's car and what was going on?

I ask this in the above post because it was said that the bus facing 112 could not see the accident site because of trees. But, if he was parked alonf the 112 facing west he may have been alot closer to the road and able to see. Now, I just don't know.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

<quoted text>
backspace,
IIRC it has been said, correct or not, that a neighbour (Mr M-e) across Rte 112 from the SBD observed the SBD backing his bus into his yard with the front facing Rte 112/BHR.
Apparently Mr M-e thought this manouevre somewhat unusual as the SBD otherwise - or so it´s being claimed anyway - normally parked his school bus in his yard along Rte 112 with the front facing west (towards the WB curve).
This is confusing for sure, but I believe this is what I´ve been reading repeatedly over the last few years following the MM case.

The issue of how the bus was usually parked was raised on this thread some time ago. IIRC, a poster questioned mr M-e´s statement and claimed SBD oftentimes parked his bus the way he did the night of Maura´s disappearance. No idea what is true.

backspace4me wrote:

Captain Jack,
Thank you. I always thought the bus was backed in facing 112. That is interesting.

Not to confuse, Backspace4me, but you are right. It was reported by a neighbor that the night MM disappeared BA came in from the west and backed the bus into the driveway & supposedly backed down beside a building which would have left the front of the bus facing 112.
What BA told Citigirl about parking was what occurred on a regular daily basis.
There has been much discussion about this.

backspace4me wrote:

<quoted text>
I believe you are correct. That is why I thought that. Also, wheeper stated he stood in SBD yard facing 112 to see if the sbd could have id'ed cars/trucks going by and he believed he could. I could have read it wrong. Do you think if he did park as Captain Jack stated could he have seen Maura's car and what was going on?

The scene was visible from where SBD parked his bus.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>The scene was visible from where SBD parked his bus.

Citigirl,
This is getting really confusing....
Do you mean to say that the scene of Maura´s accident would have been visible if the SBD had been parking his bus alongside 112 with the front facing west (towards Maura´s accident site)?
Isn´t it correct, thought, that the SBD backed his bus into his yard with the front facing the 112/BRH intersection on the night of Feb 9th 2004?
If so, I believe he wouldn´t have been able to see Maura´s car because of a number of trees, but he likely would have noticed a car or truck coming down BHR towards the 112 intersection as he would probably have got such a vehicle´s head beams hitting his face if sitting in the bus facing the 112/BHR corner.
Am I right or wrong here....???

hanson express:"Meanwhile Butch Atwood backed his school bus into his driveway and went inside to call the police. He had difficulty reaching the 911 operator due to busy phone circuits. Atwood eventually got through to the Hanover Regional Dispatch Center, which in turn alerted the Grafton County Sheriff's department at 7:43 p.m., 16 minutes after Faith Westman's original call.

Atwood spoke to the 911 operator from the front porch of his house. He could see the road, but Maura's car was not in his line of sight. As he spoke, a few cars passed by but Atwood was not able to identify any of them.

"I did not hear or see anything strange happen," Atwood said.

Three minutes later, at 7:46 p.m., Haverhill police Sergeant Cecil Smith arrived on the scene. He had been dispatched at 7:29 p.m. following the call from Faith Westman.

Atwood saw that a police vehicle had arrived so he went to his school bus to finish up some paperwork, he said during an interview."

Did BA see Smith arrive?or is this when the log says smith arrived.Didnt someone driving by see an LE vehicle at the accident scene much earlier?

How many minutes was BA inside?He could have been inside and missed alot.Or he saw too much&was scared,hence his story changes.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>The scene was visible from where SBD parked his bus.

So it must have been very possible for the SBD to see who parked nose to nose on Maura's car. HMMM

and again,LE seemed interested in red trucks that night,Why???It wasnt a crime scene,yet.

findmaura wrote:

and again,LE seemed interested in red trucks that night,Why???It wasnt a crime scene,yet.

Unless SBD also mentioned the red truck to the PD. We will never know.

backspace4me wrote:

<quoted text>
So it must have been very possible for the SBD to see who parked nose to nose on Maura's car. HMMM

Unless BA was inside..Or BA was scared of the person.Did anyone else report seeing the nose to nose vehicle?

findmaura wrote:

<quoted text>
Unless BA was inside..Or BA was scared of the person.Did anyone else report seeing the nose to nose vehicle?

I believe it was the same witness who reported an empty red truck up on BHR who also reported seeing a Haverhill PD SUV cruiser (#1) nose to nose with Maura´s Saturn (not driven by Officer Smith) and with no people visible around.
Another (?) witness is also supposed to have driven past Maura´s car and seeing LE there with the doors of the Saturn open, despite these being said to have been locked when the car was found.
I´ve been following the MM case since at least 2008-2009 and I´m still confused regarding all these seeming inconsistencies of various kinds.

Weeper Post:

"A witness returning home from her/his place of employment at Cottage Hospital on Goose Lane stated she/he observed a cook “Bronco style” police unit with #1 stenciled on it passed her/him heading (with blue lights flashing) toward the intersection of Goose Lane and French Pond Road in Swiftwater. Please have a map of this area to follow along as it gets confusing since these routes twist from Haverhill into the Swiftwater portion of the town of Bath and back into the northern section of Haverhill. Goose Lane and the Cottage Hospital are in Haverhill, then into Bath where it continues south-south west back toward the Woodsville portion of Haverhill. As the witness drove further up Goose Lane she/he observed the police unit continue on Goose Lane back toward Swiftwater. As this witness turned off Goose Lane in Bath and onto French Pond Road and the very short distance on French Pond Road to the intersection with route 112 (the Wild Ammonoosuc Road as it’s called) almost across from the general store, she/he observed the same unit (#1) pass her/him at that intersection heading east toward where the Saturn was ultimately located. When the witness came to the corner at the Weathered Barn she/he saw this police unit, nose to nose with the Saturn (bacon-end into the snow bank) but did not see any officers or people around the two vehicles (it is assumed Sgt. Smith was at this point either speaking with the Westermans or down speaking with Mr. Atwood."

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on that one, Bill. What you describe takes great skill, special training and calculation IMHO. I see Columbo as a genuinely good person who has taken this case to heart, and who has been frustrated for 8 years by a lack of answers. I get that way when I try to do algebra in my head; if I tried to work the same problem for 8 years, I would lose my mind. In this instance, there are too many variables to solve the problem. I've seen Columbo post previously that he has tried to ask these questions of the people who should know the answers, and that they refused to talk to him. Refusing to answer is the right of LE or anybody else. But it's gotta be frustrating, not feeling like you can move on with your life until an unsolvable problem is solved. Just my perspective, for what it's worth.

Reasonable people can disagree. But, keep this in mind. I have seen his work on more than this forum and over a much greater time than you.

I have seen the trailer hitch bullshit which he won't even discuss anymore like he wasn't the originator of that turd. People wasted months on that. Now by the way, he is starting to float the turd about Maura's car being "pushed". I suspect by a police vehicle, but he hasn't thrown the second part of that turd out there yet. I am waiting. Just recently he talked about how Patric's body was moved around at the site where he was found. Why would a thinking human being, knowing the suffering that the mother is going through, even say something like that without rock solid proof? There have been many more. I have very little respect for his manner of "investigation" which seems to primarily consist of throwing bullshit out into a public forum and seeing how people react. Your experience with him may be different, but that is what I have witnessed for many years.

Bill

Sorry to keep re posting But I hope these help answer some questions being asked.

Weeper Post:"THE SBD WAS ABLE TO SEE IF (AND I SAY IF ONLY BECAUSE THERE IS ALWAYS AN AMOUNT OF TRUTH HIDDEN IN ALL FALSEHOODS) WE SELECT CERTAIN STATEMENTS HE'S MADE TO LE AND THE MEDIA BACKED UP LATER WITH FACTS.... SBD HAD AN UNOBSTRUCTED VIEW ALL THE WAY TO THE ACCIDENT SCENE WHILE SITTING IN HIS SCHOOL BUS. IN FACT ONE SHOULD ASK WHY DIDN'T SBD WALK DOWN TO THE ACCIDENT SITE WHEN SGT. SMITH ARRIVED ON SCENE..(HE BEING SO CONCERNED ABOUT MAURA'S SAFETY AND ALL).WHY DID HE WAIT IN THE BUS FOR SMITH TO COME TO HIM?? THERE IS A WITNESS (YOU WILL NOT FIND THIS IN THE MEDIA OR ON THIS SITE..THIS FROM ME TO YOU ALL..AS PROMISED.) WHO PLACES SBD IN HIS BUS FOR "A LONG TIME" AFTER RETURNING TO HIS RESIDENCE."

The strange thing is we now know Sgt. Smith was not driving the #1 Bronco.

I have never heard that the witnesses in the homes ever saw or stated or admitted they saw this Bronco. Why?

backspace4me wrote:

The strange thing is we now know Sgt. Smith was not driving the #1 Bronco.

It was a Ford Explorer cruiser, not a Bronco. Just to clarify.

John