Maura Murray

Jenkins wrote:

What's up with all the damage seen in renner's pics?
How did maura's car get so much more damage from sitting in a field at the SP barracks?
Do the regularly let people come and vandalize cars that r impounded?
Do they regularly damage cars that r being potentially held as evidence?
There's a few things like this that r really difficult to find an innocent explanation for.
What could have possibly caused the extensive damage seen in renner's photos that is not there in the original photos taken from the same field?

Maybe the SP just checked for more clues?

Jenkins wrote:

What's up with all the damage seen in renner's pics?
How did maura's car get so much more damage from sitting in a field at the SP barracks?
Do the regularly let people come and vandalize cars that r impounded?
Do they regularly damage cars that r being potentially held as evidence?
There's a few things like this that r really difficult to find an innocent explanation for.
What could have possibly caused the extensive damage seen in renner's photos that is not there in the original photos taken from the same field?

Jenkins,
I have wondered the same thing many times regarding the amount of damage shown in Renner´s photos compared to earlier pictures.
On another note:
Very, very sad news from Vermont. One can´t help wondering whether this and other similar cases in the NH/VT area are unrelated or not.
We still don´t know the identity of the Danby Hill Road skulle found earlier this year near Danby, VT.
The murderer(s) of elderly Mrs Pat O´Hagan, of Sheffield, VT, is/are still at large.
The 2004 Brianna Maitland case in Montgomery, VT, back in 2004 is still unsolved and Brianna, like Maura Murray, remains missing.
Those cases might or not be related...

Jenkins wrote:

She disnt have a remote starter or remote trunk latch, just look a the car, it doesn't even have power locks.
It's a bare bones no perk car, manual locks. Manual windows. U can't put in a remote if it doesn't have power locks

you're right, so I guess that's all she wrote on that one, thanks for pointing that out.

The photo of the gas gauge doesn't really tell us much. If we r assuming that she filled her car up all the way then that means she got gas nowhere near the accident scene.
The gauge is clearly halfway between full and 3/4's. On a car like that that's about a 2 hr drive from full, maybe more if it's topped off.
In my old camry which was a 6 cylinder I could make it from Ct to Nh using barely more than a quarter tank.
Also, as most people know, for some reason the gas gauge goes much slower on the top Half of the tank than the bottom.

There is no way u can look at that pic and determine that she had filled up in the area, to my eyes it looks like she didn't.
Back then gas was relatively cheap and all gas stations were pump first so people generally topped their cars off and then went to pay. Unlike today where u put in 50$ and it looks exactly how her gauge looks in that pic

mcsmom wrote:

<quoted text>
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/MauraM...

This picture is Maura's Saturn (black steering wheel) with a full tank of gas.

The other photo linked earlier today had a tan steering wheel and the gas tank showed empty probably because the automobile was off. IIRC the car with the tan steering wheel was provided on an older MMM forum as an example of what a Saturn with deployed and removed air-bags would look like.

The tank is full even after driving 130 miles... OF COURSE you'd fill up before heading up into the mountains. I don't see any other possible scenario other than someone saw her, followed her and grabbed her. She was obviously unaware of the danger or she wouldn't have refused SBD's offer to help.

About the red truck. According to RO's statement, she was walking to the store around 7 PM, so she apparently encountered the red truck maybe roughly 7:10 or 7:15. The truck was in the parking lot of the store and left there when she arrived in the well lit lot. She said she was in the store about 30-45 minutes and the police car and ambulance went by when she'd been there about 20 minutes.

Her time line corresponds pretty well with the time line in the Grafton Co Log as to when CS arrived on the crash scene. Crash was called in by FW at 7:27 ... allow a few minutes for the Ws to hear the crash and go and look before the phone call was made, so crash probably actually happened around 7:20.

What interests me is that the occupants of the red truck seemed to be looking for someone ON FOOT *PRIOR* to the crash. Plus, RO was walking on Bunga Rd, not on Rt. 112, so red truck occupants were looking for someone ON FOOT but not necessarily on Rt. 112.

If the red truck occupants were responsible for shoving the rag deep up into the tailpipe of Maura's car, then possibly they were expecting the car to stall out and for the driver to therefore be on foot. But why look on Bunga Road? If they were following Maura, did she turn down Bunga Road? Per the map of the area, Bunga Road doesn't circle around to connect with another road in the area -- you come off Rt. 112, drive down Bunga Road, then have to turn around and come back to Rt. 112. So given RO's account, the truck had to already have gone down Bunga, turned around, and was on its way back up Bunga toward Rt. 112 when it passed her.

So to me it sounds like the red truck was AHEAD of Maura on Rt. 112 and had gone down Bunga before Maura crashed on Rt. 112 at the WB curve. The red truck then came back up Bunga and passed RO, went on to the store and sat in the parking lot there until RO arrived. Maura in the Saturn likely passed the store just before the red truck stopped there in the parking lot, or shortly after the red truck left the parking lot.

When exactly was a red truck seen parked up Bradley Hill Road? Was this before Maura's accident was called in by FW -- in other words, was it between 7:15 PM and roughly 7:30 PM? Or was it earlier or later than that time frame? For the sake of argument, I'm assuming RO's red truck and the red truck on Bradley Hill Road were the same truck.

mcsmom wrote:

As you can see the needle to the tank is on the nearly full mark.
Why fill the tank if the plan is to ditch the car?
Or commit suicide?
Or runaway?

There must certainly be a record of the amount of gas found in the tank. MR Renner....go back and ask the tow truck driver if he knows or not how much gas was in the tank. Some look full when in rest so who knows really?

Oh and Jenkins, I'm really happy you decided to speak up. I'm saying it again because you really get me thinking.

mcsmom wrote:

As you can see the needle to the tank is on the nearly full mark.
Why fill the tank if the plan is to ditch the car?
Or commit suicide?
Or runaway?

What kind of gas mileage did that year Saturn get? Maybe she filled the tank prior to leaving Amherst and that's all the gas it had used between Amherst and the crash site. My van isn't great on gas mileage but still only uses about 1/4 tank to drive 85 miles, and presumably her Saturn could have gone farther on less gas.

Per RO:

"I wish I could give an exact description of the truck but I can not. I was walking that night about 7 p.m to the local store. As I was walking up the hill, a truck passed me and slowed down. When it got to the middle of the hill it stopped in the road. I immediately looked at the plate and noticed it was from Massachusetts. There is only 1 street light there and I could not tell how many people were in the vehicle. As I got closer to the truck it took off up the hill. When I rounded the corner to the store, I could see the truck in the driveway of the store. As I walked into the parking lot, which is well lit, the truck took off toward the crash site,(of course at that time I did not know there was a crash).

"As for the red truck, it slowed, then stopped and waited for me to get closer, then took off up the hill. He did not leave the store parking lot in any sort of hurry.

"When I entered the store I asked if she saw the people in that truck and she said no, no one had come in. I told her about them stopping in the hill. Then we just forgot about it. I stood in the store a while and was there when the police and ambulance went by. I never saw that truck again. The only way I can describe it is that it looked like someone who delivered wood. That was my first thought about it........red, MA plates and delivered wood. Either having a wood body or even just slats in the body. It was not a king cab or extra cab. Just a regular truck. That is all I can tell you.

"I was in the Swiftwater store for 1/2 hour - 45 minutes. It was about 20-30 minutes after I was there that the police went by. I am not at all Maura's size and in fact I was bundled up that night. I believe I caught the truck off guard as I was walking well off the road and as they passed I walked back on, which is why I believe they stopped completely. They could not see me without any street lights and maybe went to the store and waited for me to get up there to get a better look??? I don't know. That is just how it seemed to me.

"The truck didn't scare me. My thought is that they/he/she thought I was someone else. That is what I was thinking that night. When I saw them sitting at the store, I again thought, they really think I am someone else. And as I got closer and I could see the driver moving around - I was thinking, there, I am not the person you are looking for, and he drove off. I wish to God I could remember what I was wearing that night, but I can't.

"Someone asked about the truck and whether it was 4 wheel drive. I believe it was. I have been looking at trucks and have determined that it was definitely a four wheel drive or at least it was a 3/4 ton pick up, because it sat up high. The other thing I remember is that the window in the back was hard to see in....it wasn't very large.....which tells me it was an older truck maybe???"

Jwb wrote:

In this pic of the interior of the saturn it shows part of the dash hanging down. I am wondering if this is the Data recorder? In other interior pics, the recorder (or dash item) is still intact.
(dislodged)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/MauraM...
(intact)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a126/MauraM...

To me these pictures seem the opposite. The first picture that says "dislodged" has a nice unripped or whatever way you want to describe it looking passenger airbag for one. Side note, what's that rusty thing down near the excelerator?
The second picture looks more roughed up than the first, wow. Thanks for the links.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenkins,
I have wondered the same thing many times regarding the amount of damage shown in Renner´s photos compared to earlier pictures.
On another note:
Very, very sad news from Vermont. One can´t help wondering whether this and other similar cases in the NH/VT area are unrelated or not.
We still don´t know the identity of the Danby Hill Road skulle found earlier this year near Danby, VT.
The murderer(s) of elderly Mrs Pat O´Hagan, of Sheffield, VT, is/are still at large.
The 2004 Brianna Maitland case in Montgomery, VT, back in 2004 is still unsolved and Brianna, like Maura Murray, remains missing.
Those cases might or not be related...

Great post.....Thanx

John

Per RO:

" I was walking that night about 7 p.m to the local store. As I walked into the parking lot, When I saw them sitting at the store, I again thought, they really think I am someone else. And as I got closer and I could see the driver moving around - I was thinking, there, I am not the person you are looking for, and he drove off. the truck took off toward the crash site
I stood in the store a while and was there when the police and ambulance went by.

"I was in the Swiftwater store for 1/2 hour - 45 minutes. It was about 20-30 minutes after I was there that the police went by.

Frostman wrote:

Per RO:
"I wish I could give an exact description of the truck but I can not. I was walking that night about 7 p.m to the local store. As I was walking up the hill, a truck passed me and slowed down. When it got to the middle of the hill it stopped in the road. I immediately looked at the plate and noticed it was from Massachusetts. There is only 1 street light there and I could not tell how many people were in the vehicle. As I got closer to the truck it took off up the hill. When I rounded the corner to the store, I could see the truck in the driveway of the store. As I walked into the parking lot, which is well lit, the truck took off toward the crash site,(of course at that time I did not know there was a crash).
"As for the red truck, it slowed, then stopped and waited for me to get closer, then took off up the hill. He did not leave the store parking lot in any sort of hurry.
"When I entered the store I asked if she saw the people in that truck and she said no, no one had come in. I told her about them stopping in the hill. Then we just forgot about it. I stood in the store a while and was there when the police and ambulance went by. I never saw that truck again. The only way I can describe it is that it looked like someone who delivered wood. That was my first thought about it........red, MA plates and delivered wood. Either having a wood body or even just slats in the body. It was not a king cab or extra cab. Just a regular truck. That is all I can tell you.
"I was in the Swiftwater store for 1/2 hour - 45 minutes. It was about 20-30 minutes after I was there that the police went by. I am not at all Maura's size and in fact I was bundled up that night. I believe I caught the truck off guard as I was walking well off the road and as they passed I walked back on, which is why I believe they stopped completely. They could not see me without any street lights and maybe went to the store and waited for me to get up there to get a better look??? I don't know. That is just how it seemed to me.
"The truck didn't scare me. My thought is that they/he/she thought I was someone else. That is what I was thinking that night. When I saw them sitting at the store, I again thought, they really think I am someone else. And as I got closer and I could see the driver moving around - I was thinking, there, I am not the person you are looking for, and he drove off. I wish to God I could remember what I was wearing that night, but I can't.
"Someone asked about the truck and whether it was 4 wheel drive. I believe it was. I have been looking at trucks and have determined that it was definitely a four wheel drive or at least it was a 3/4 ton pick up, because it sat up high. The other thing I remember is that the window in the back was hard to see in....it wasn't very large.....which tells me it was an older truck maybe???"

Meant to quote you Frostman. Thanks for posting this. I tried something with her words. I didn't twist them around I don't think. Just put it in the simplist way using her words and no distraction. Thoughts anyone?

Advocate wrote:

About the red truck. According to RO's statement, she was walking to the store around 7 PM, so she apparently encountered the red truck maybe roughly 7:10 or 7:15. The truck was in the parking lot of the store and left there when she arrived in the well lit lot. She said she was in the store about 30-45 minutes and the police car and ambulance went by when she'd been there about 20 minutes.
Her time line corresponds pretty well with the time line in the Grafton Co Log as to when CS arrived on the crash scene. Crash was called in by FW at 7:27 ... allow a few minutes for the Ws to hear the crash and go and look before the phone call was made, so crash probably actually happened around 7:20.
What interests me is that the occupants of the red truck seemed to be looking for someone ON FOOT *PRIOR* to the crash. Plus, RO was walking on Bunga Rd, not on Rt. 112, so red truck occupants were looking for someone ON FOOT but not necessarily on Rt. 112.
If the red truck occupants were responsible for shoving the rag deep up into the tailpipe of Maura's car, then possibly they were expecting the car to stall out and for the driver to therefore be on foot. But why look on Bunga Road? If they were following Maura, did she turn down Bunga Road? Per the map of the area, Bunga Road doesn't circle around to connect with another road in the area -- you come off Rt. 112, drive down Bunga Road, then have to turn around and come back to Rt. 112. So given RO's account, the truck had to already have gone down Bunga, turned around, and was on its way back up Bunga toward Rt. 112 when it passed her.
So to me it sounds like the red truck was AHEAD of Maura on Rt. 112 and had gone down Bunga before Maura crashed on Rt. 112 at the WB curve. The red truck then came back up Bunga and passed RO, went on to the store and sat in the parking lot there until RO arrived. Maura in the Saturn likely passed the store just before the red truck stopped there in the parking lot, or shortly after the red truck left the parking lot.
When exactly was a red truck seen parked up Bradley Hill Road? Was this before Maura's accident was called in by FW -- in other words, was it between 7:15 PM and roughly 7:30 PM? Or was it earlier or later than that time frame? For the sake of argument, I'm assuming RO's red truck and the red truck on Bradley Hill Road were the same truck.

per RO
Also on 10.24 in her posting RO identifies Trooper Monaghan as the one who stopped behind the returning ambulance at Bunga Rd probably around 8pm as she was nearly home, and he "asked if I had seen anyone walking" on 112 which she had not.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
I know nothing about cars, but I looked it up:
"The inflation of the airbag coincides with the forward movement of the driver or passenger, so by the time a person contacts the airbag, deflation has begun."
http://www.enotes.com/airbag-residues-referen...
Sounds like it would happen quickly.

Mom was nearly killed April fools of 2010. Airbags hit her and son so fast it was "like a slap in the face", mom said. She chocked, they both choked.

If Red Truck and passengers were lurking around for Maura with evil intentions, they must have told her or known (overheard? at a gas station) that she was planning to take Route 112 as opposed to Route 302 which would have been the obvious choice if she was en route to Bartlett.

It's too big a coincidence, IMO, that the Red Truck was there and she went missing in a matter of minutes. They had to have known her driving plan in advance if they were waiting at the store (SSS).

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree. And the damage/scrape marks could have been from unpainted wood, metal or cement posts or something like that. If the Saturn had scraped a brightly painted surface you might easily be able to see any transfer.
Locking yourself in your brand new car... hmm sounds like something I might do!

Almost didn't see this. I'm trying to interact today more. I tend to pop in and out so much that I may be disruptive.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
"On cross-examination Timothy Ervin pushes Sgt. Landry to reveal whether or not there is a person of interest in the case and Ms. Smith objects:
Ms. Smith: I'm concerned about that, because, again, this is, to the extent this is a small community, the people know... the people, the identity of those people is fairly well known."
This is from an official document, posted to Renner's blog:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/02/what-...
"Assistant AG Nancy Smith says some interesting things while explaining why the records should not be released. Here's some highlights:
While we don't in any way suggest it's the case here, what we are being asked to do in this case would open up the state of New Hampshire and law enforcement investigatory files at a pre indictment phase to the suspected perpetrator as well as everyone else in the world."
This is an official person stating on the record "investigatory files at a pre indictment phase to the suspected perpetrator as well as everyone else in the world".
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/02/why-r...

ok, this is what I was referring too also but thinking of simple things like,~ my brother did this, my sister did that, the guys that make snow never showed up for work, the guys who plowed never did after that night and then MS Smith gets picked on by the town for saying as much. See what I mean? AND:

noun a person who perpetrates , or commits, an illegal, criminal, or evil act..........

NOBODY KNOWS THIS, it's all hearsay and who-done-it, mixed with gossip, speculation, personal observations based on ones own fears and that can be dangerous when you have so little, to accuse, then be exposed in the "blaim game", your protection and anonimity taken away. This is what all this Giberish sounds like to me.
Honestly and with a level of humilty I share my thoughts is all.

If EMS (the first call) went to Bunga Rd, at about the time RO was leaving for the SSS, and the red truck passed RO at that time, perhaps the red truck had an interest in this EMS call as well. Perhaps they were expecting a crash, if in fact they were responsible for the rag in the tailpipe.