Maura Murray

Advocate wrote:

Here's the thing in a nutshell about MM possibly going into the woods. Presuming she headed east, it's something like 17 miles to the next town. Few houses, apparently. So, woods and "wilderness country" on both sides of the road for most of 17 miles. If Scarinza's helicopter search did not cover that whole distance, and cover both sides of the road to a range of maybe 1/4 mile into the woods on both sides of the road, then chances are excellent that MM *could* have entered the woods anywhere along there and any track she left easily missed. This is just one reason why -- if she entered the woods -- her remains may never be found.

Very true that if she is in the woods she may never be found, but it is very unlikely she made it into the woods.
Scarinza was in the helicopter that flew the length of 112 looking for signs that someone entered the woods.
At most they only has to look 1/8-1/4 mike in bc if there's no tracks, then she can't be in the woods.
Also the river runs along he road for miles so that eliminates one direction of travel.
Scarinza said they flew 112 several times and was up in the chopper for a long time.

While je doesn't sound confident saying she left in a vehicle he sounds extremely confident that she isn't in the woods.
He has stated on several occasions that he does not think she is in the woods near the crash site.

Until I saw scarinza's interview where he talks about flying in the chopper and how nun detail he could see through the flir, including tracks from small animals, I thought that there was still a possibility she was in the woods. After seeing that interview and reading a few other comments he made I don't c how anyone looking at this objectively can think she entered the woods, at least anywhere near the crash site.
I suppose it is possible she walked 20 miles and went in the woods there but it is highly unlikely she is in the woods nearby.

Why would a red truck not be inconspicuous in Nh in the winter time?

We aren't talking about a cherry red corvette here, we r talking about a 10-20 yr old work truck. She said it looked like it was a truck proper deliver wood in.
Do u realize how many trucks r driving around Nh?
It's Nh In February, everybody's car is dirty as hell from the sand and salt on the roads.
This isn't a bright red, shiny truck. It's like that dull red that most red pickups look like.
In reality that wouldnt be any more conspicuous than any other car. In fact any truck would b better than a car. Trucks r everywhere up here, plowing, delivering wood, etc. Good vehicle to use if your committing a crime up there bc people just assume the driver is working or driving home from work.

Certainly nothing like a tank or pink rv, I mean what the hell r u even talking about? Your actually saying that a mid 80's-early 90's red work truck would stick out like a pink rv??!

Again, it's not a cherry red polished corvette here.
That's a pretty ridiculous assumption you've made there. Your assuming it's some bright red truck when in reality it was a rather dull red work truck. Just like the thousands of dull red work trucks driving the roads of Nh delivering wood and plowing driveways.

findmaura wrote:

<quoted text>
I believe the red truck has been downplayed for a specific reason.I believe LE #1 car and the red truck may have worked together somehow,get a friend out of a jam kind of thing.Who was driving the #1 car that night?Again the Logs&timelines dont add up..Im sure SBD saw something&was threatened..Im not so sure the red truck had ma. plates either...why wasnt the FBI called in?

If I wasnt having health issues I could follow better.
Great question.

When was the last update from LE?

Whats the reward here?

Have the Murrays ever hired a real pi at anytime?

Why wont Fred Murray speak out?

Maura isnt even listed in the FBI mp website.

To all the regs here... IME when someone mocks all of your work... sometimes its a troll and sometimes its by someone who knows a heck of alot more about the details of case than we do. IE: REAL LE.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Damn it. How did these people find out about me and my red truck??
Bill
p.s. fortunately, I have never owned a red truck or had access to one in my entire life. But, I admit, that if I ever wanted to conduct a kidnapping, I cannot think of a better, least identifiable, more stealthy vehicle to use. It would be on my short list of vehicles to use. Along with a tank, a garbage truck, and pink RV.

What about the truck mentioned with a Delaware license plate?

It seems like there is a big resistance from certain people to discussing this red truck. Every time it starts being talked about someone comes out of the woodwork to change the subject. Generally by personal attacks & other things that get people all riled up.
I'm a total dumbass, I fell for it again.
The thing is, the red truck is the one thing that the majority of posters agree on, maybe like 75%(total estimate based on no #'s) but def over 50% of people think something's up w it. It's funny bc last week everyone was actually agreeing & reaching similar conclusions about the truck. Then all of sudden bam, got people trying to make fun of people, talking mad shit.

If u look at it objectively, without any preconceptions, its hard to just write off the red truck as a coincidence. Granted there obviously is a chance that it's all just a weird coincidence but that's pretty hard to believe. If someone just reported seeing a red truck driving thru the area, then fine, I'd b much more willing to write it off as a coincidence.

But the truck was in the exact same area, at the exact same time as the accident. That still even could be written off, but the driver of the truck was also looking for someone. Looking for someone specific. They actually stopped in the rd and backed up to try to get a better look at RO. They were then waiting in the store parking lot, they did not go into the store. As RO got close to the truck they could actually see her, RO actually thought to herself "there, I'm not who your looking for"(something like that)& then the truck left the store. So basically the driver was specifically looking for someone, who was not RO. About 10 mins later RO saw smith going by to the accident scene. That places the truck at the accident scene in that one 10 minute window where Maura was alone. That's when the sbd was calling 911& the wmans stopped looking bc the sbd showed up.

How can this just be written off as a strange coincidence? How can anyone just say that it's ridiculous? I'm seriously asking, does anyone have one good reason why the red truck should be discounted as a red herring?
but then we also have another witness who reported seeing a red truck parked on bhr, with its door open and they told the cops that night that they saw it. I would think that if that person felt the need to report it to the cops that night they must've thought it was at least somewhat suspicious. Very possible they just heard a girl was missing and they were just trying to b helpful by reporting anything unusual, & obviously they at least thought seeing a truck parked there, driver out of the truck w his door open was unusual.
It appears that the cops thought something of it too; in the early hours of 2/10 they had a lot of interest in trucks. Most of, if not every vehicle they pulled over late was a truck and 3 were red. IMO they were hoping for a long shot at that point. They were pulling over trucks just hoping to get lucky and pull over the one that she was in. Maybe it's another coincidence there was 3 red trucks pulled over and most of the other vehicles pulled over were trucks as well but at some point all these coincidences can't just b coincidence. How many strange coincidences can there b before there not coincidences anymore?
Any way u slice it the red truck appears to have something to do with this.
Unless u want to write off RO as a Liar, but then you'd also have to write off the witness that felt the need to report the truck to police that night. I found RO to b an extremely reliable witness. She anwered so many q's asked so many different ways and her story never changed in the slightest.
I believe, find the owner of the red truck: find out what happened to Maura.
Maybe he drove her out of there to a bus station and she left and started a new identity.
Whoever drove that red truck is at the very least a possible key witness to what happened that night.

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
Try not to confuse them, they're old and retired. They probably think an iPhone is some kind of new hearing aid.

Typed to you fom The iPad. It doesn't get much sweeter than that.
My credentials include The Google and The FB. When The Community Colleges are mentioned by The Community Organizer you always come to mind.
I have some good years left following this brain drain and Topix induced coma to continue to annoy the crap out of most of you.

Follow The Red Truck (caps intended).
Just do it.

Jenkins, for the most part, I enjoy your posts and I am very pro speculative discussion.

However, other than saying that the red truck may or may not be significant I'm at a loss as to where you're going with this one.

Bill is entirely correct in saying that a theory must be proven for it to be accepted as fact, irrespective of how many people might believe it.

A great many people believe in fairies but that doesn't make them real.

With the greatest respect, I do think you're trying to bend reality to suit your particular belief and, to be honest, that does rather fit your job in fraud prevention.

When your company doesn't want to make a payment, I'm sure every possible means of escaping doing so and 'what if' is duly employed. However, in this instance, it's just coming accross as some sort of 'I know more than LE' type stance.

Personally, I have an open mind as to Maura's fate and, until (or if) further evidence materialises, I'll stay that way. Doesn't mean I don't speculate or have an interest in all theories. Just that I have seen nothing concrete to support any one theory over another.

If you're so utterly convinced of your own 'red truck' idea, why not share the evidence behind your belief with us all?

AcidHouseMartin wrote:

Jenkins, for the most part, I enjoy your posts and I am very pro speculative discussion.
However, other than saying that the red truck may or may not be significant I'm at a loss as to where you're going with this one.
Bill is entirely correct in saying that a theory must be proven for it to be accepted as fact, irrespective of how many people might believe it.
A great many people believe in fairies but that doesn't make them real.
With the greatest respect, I do think you're trying to bend reality to suit your particular belief and, to be honest, that does rather fit your job in fraud prevention.
When your company doesn't want to make a payment, I'm sure every possible means of escaping doing so and 'what if' is duly employed. However, in this instance, it's just coming accross as some sort of 'I know more than LE' type stance.
Personally, I have an open mind as to Maura's fate and, until (or if) further evidence materialises, I'll stay that way. Doesn't mean I don't speculate or have an interest in all theories. Just that I have seen nothing concrete to support any one theory over another.
If you're so utterly convinced of your own 'red truck' idea, why not share the evidence behind your belief with us all?

Acid, I believe Jenkins explained his reasoning of the red truck Theory in his previous posts and very lengthy I must add. He has also stated that if new evidence comes up that says differently then he will adjust. This is not a court of law. This is a forum to discuss theories,express ideas and share information. If this offends people then maybe this is not a place for them to hang out. Jenkins has every right to post his theories and if you feel differently then try an poke holes in it. Some would rather verbally abuse the messenger as they find it to be entertainment. Ask yourselves, What are these posters (verbal abusers) bringing to the table?

I know some of the verbal abusers were banned from the moderated forums and are still holding a grudge.

Amen

Caledonian:

John Healy, who is a member of the team of investigators working on the Murray case in concert with the Molly Bish Foundation, said the team has come up with other theories about what happened that dark February night.

Healy said although police have said Murray crashed her car into the trees, he and the other investigators do not believe it to be true.

He said, based on the damage to the Saturn, that it appears as if the car was traveling at a slow speed when it may have struck the underside of another vehicle; the actual crash site may have taken place somewhere else. Not only that, they believe Murray may not have been the young woman then-First Student school bus driver Butch Atwood saw.They believe the scene where the Saturn was found by Atwood may have been staged.

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
Acid, I believe Jenkins explained his reasoning of the red truck Theory in his previous posts and very lengthy I must add. He has also stated that if new evidence comes up that says differently then he will adjust. This is not a court of law. This is a forum to discuss theories,express ideas and share information. If this offends people then maybe this is not a place for them to hang out. Jenkins has every right to post his theories and if you feel differently then try an poke holes in it. Some would rather verbally abuse the messenger as they find it to be entertainment. Ask yourselves, What are these posters (verbal abusers) bringing to the table?
I know some of the verbal abusers were banned from the moderated forums and are still holding a grudge.
Amen

I agree with you about a couple things. The first is that people should be entitled to discuss and debate their theories on this forum. I was trying to explain this yesterday there is a very strong chance Maura ran off into the woods and died. But there are other theories that can be discussed like the red truck, Vasi, Fred and hitched a ride.

I do value bills opinion to help offer a different side to the debate where it is sometimes needed. There are many theories as to what happened and some are stronger than the others.

Snowy wrote:

Follow The Red Truck (caps intended).
Just do it.

(Caps intended?) Are we to follow the red truck with a cap on it or are we to follow the red truck with our PI caps on?

jwb wrote:

Caledonian:
John Healy, who is a member of the team of investigators working on the Murray case in concert with the Molly Bish Foundation, said the team has come up with other theories about what happened that dark February night.
Healy said although police have said Murray crashed her car into the trees, he and the other investigators do not believe it to be true.
He said, based on the damage to the Saturn, that it appears as if the car was traveling at a slow speed when it may have struck the underside of another vehicle; the actual crash site may have taken place somewhere else. Not only that, they believe Murray may not have been the young woman then-First Student school bus driver Butch Atwood saw.They believe the scene where the Saturn was found by Atwood may have been staged.

What would be the benefit of staging a crash? I can't see that to risky and why would you need to? If Maura was going to go missing you wouldn't need to stage a crash to do that.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree with you about a couple things. The first is that people should be entitled to discuss and debate their theories on this forum. I was trying to explain this yesterday there is a very strong chance Maura ran off into the woods and died. But there are other theories that can be discussed like the red truck, Vasi, Fred and hitched a ride.
I do value bills opinion to help offer a different side to the debate where it is sometimes needed. There are many theories as to what happened and some are stronger than the others.

I value others opinion as well even if I don't agree, but there has been way too much verbal attacking and less information or insight given. When I first started posting here, I looked at the SBD and I was able to debunk my theory by piecing together the information of the timeline. Some of this information was difficult to put together because of so many different accounts> I asked questions to try and gather facts and this got some all worked up but it helped me work towards the truth of it. That is the process here because so little is known on our end of it.

John Healy qualifications:

SUMMARY OF QUALIFICATIONS:
NH State Police, Lieutenant (Retired)
Over thirty three years of progressive investigative, security and management experience in law enforcement and the private sector
Experienced in all phases of major investigations and crisis management and disaster planning
State Police Training Instructor /Commander State Police Training Unit
Coordinator NESPAC (New England State Police Administrators Compact) NCO Academy
Commander, State Police Narcotics Interdiction Unit
Commander, Special Enforcement Unit
Proven ability to organize, direct, and perform major investigations and operations
Effective written and oral communication skills
Ability to manage a multitude of people and tasks in an administrative or field operational environment
Experienced in covert video surveillance
Experienced prosecutor, with an in depth knowledge of case preparation and presentation and the Court System
Presented testimony in local, state and federal courts, and a variety of administrative forums
Former Member: Board of Directors New Hampshire Police Prosecutors Association
President: New Hampshire League of Investigators (NHLI) 2000/2006
President: New England Council of State Investigator Associations 2001/2004
Awarded the League’s (NHLI)“President’s Award” for “Outstanding Service to the Profession” in 1994 and 1999, 2001
CMI: Certified Master Investigator/National Investigation Academy
CII: Certified International Investigator
“Leadership Award” 2002. Maine Licensed Private Investigators Association
Life Member: The New Hampshire League of Investigators, Inc 2007
Life Member NH retied Law Enforcement Officers Association
2007 The New Hampshire League of Investigators, Inc President’s Life Member designation for “Outstanding Leadership Dedication to the Profession.

Are Murray's , Maitland's and Jenkin's deaths related? Allen Prue owns two trucks .He does snow plowing and towing . Jenkin's body was found within 20 miles of the location of Murray's vehicle . Prue would have been around 21 yrs old in 2004 .Did Allen Prue do plowing and towing in 2004 in the 112 N. Haverhill area ? Did he ever own a red truck ? He probably would have owned a scanner ?

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>What would be the benefit of staging a crash? I can't see that to risky and why would you need to? If Maura was going to go missing you wouldn't need to stage a crash to do that.

Perhaps it was a botched abduction and the perpetrators weren't exactly thinking clearly. Is it possible that a male/female team tried to abduct Maura and then made it look like a crash further down the road? Perhaps Maura's AAA card was out because there had been an earlier crash. Maybe the male perp grabbed Maura and the girl drove the Saturn down Rt 112 to WB and was picked up. If Maura was tied up in the car, that might explain why the Bloodhound was able to track her scent a short distance up the road. It might explain a lot of things -- rag in tailpipe, man at the car, wine spilled everywhere, valuables and toiletries and AAA card left in the car.

Allen and Patricia Prue went to extreme methods to hide the body of a person they murdered... and there have countless abductions and murders where a female accomplice helped a man "get a girl".

I don't think Healy would have spoken with the press if this scenario hadn't been thought out.

Jenkins you said you emailed with RO. Did she have any other info than what has already been posted? I find her story credible and have read her posts, just wondering if she had anything else to add that you could share? Maybe LE already checked this out and decided it isn't related, but I think it's a big coincidence that a truck with MA plates happens to be waiting outside a store, does not go in, and a neighbor on foot feels they are looking at her thinking she is someone else.

Frostman wrote:

<quoted text>
Perhaps it was a botched abduction and the perpetrators weren't exactly thinking clearly. Is it possible that a male/female team tried to abduct Maura and then made it look like a crash further down the road? Perhaps Maura's AAA card was out because there had been an earlier crash. Maybe the male perp grabbed Maura and the girl drove the Saturn down Rt 112 to WB and was picked up. If Maura was tied up in the car, that might explain why the Bloodhound was able to track her scent a short distance up the road. It might explain a lot of things -- rag in tailpipe, man at the car, wine spilled everywhere, valuables and toiletries and AAA card left in the car.
Allen and Patricia Prue went to extreme methods to hide the body of a person they murdered... and there have countless abductions and murders where a female accomplice helped a man "get a girl".
I don't think Healy would have spoken with the press if this scenario hadn't been thought out.

Wicked attraction on id has a lot of male female abductors. I think if Maura was drinking the wine it would be in the front seat and when the airbag went off it knocked the box of wine in the back and it went all over.