Maura Murray

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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Sometimes people make mistakes. Sometimes people see something but tell the story differently then what They saw. Even if what RO said is 100 percent truth and nothing is pulled out of context. What do we have? We have a point out in space. Do we have any other facts to help us draw a straight line and connect anymore dots to Maura or do we have to bend this line to make it connect to Maura? For now the truck is out in left field maybe renner will bring it closer to home plate.

Hello Lighthouse -James did mention recently this on his Missing Mura site.I just don't know. Some-one knows what happened to her .

amy researches wrote:

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Yes, why didn't other cars see her is another big question I have re: the CW sighting. Maybe they did but did not report it because they did not want to get involved. Who knows. It is baffling indeed. I originally suspected that they had reason to believe she went west, since the people who did the hasty search that night supposedly only searched west. But this has been disputed here also, to great lengths, with information added by WTH/Bill who has professional experience in search and rescue. People here have even disputed whether the dog would have been able to accurately track her scent after so much time, using a glove she rarely wore. So I give up trying to make sense out of the east/west thing. LOL. Too many possibilities and conflicting information, and we just don't know. I read about a lot of missing persons cases, and this one is certainly strange. I think the Disappeared program and Renner's blog have sparked a lot of the recent interest and has drawn many of us here.

I´m pretty convinced there are one or more witnesses not known to the public, or known witness/es with more info than has been made public (SBD?).

whiston wrote:

Hi all,Mr Lavoie 'told Mr Murray about the rag in the tailpipe'.Mr Lavoie, said the rag was way down in the tailpipe.How did Sgt.Smith know about it on Feb 09 2004.Why was Mr Lavoie even working on the saturn at all.It was not worth fixing and we are told Maura had a new car waiting for her.Whether a dog can trail back and forth I don't know but my guess is no.Still wondering why Sgt.Smith waited at the saturn for so long.If SBD saw someone that was not Maura, what was he supposed to do to keep himself and family safe but say that it was Maura in th e saturn.Mr Murray has deemed Maura's prior life unimportant.How odd is that.take care philip

I don´t know about the other stuff, but this I do know for a fact. A dog is perfectly capable to follow a track that goes back and forth. They can tell the difference between older and newer scent, even if older only by a very small amount of time. Plenty of research in this area.

http://www.wcax.com/story/17289667/did-murder...

Snowy wrote:

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you go ahead and "findtheanswers". it's a lofty challenge, but there are enough people to dumb it all down for each other so you can arrive at your goal.
send my love to JWB. he's been a real ass-et to this forum!:)
keep up the good work.

This is exactly what I stated earlier . People are trying to"findtheanswers " You haven't in 8 yrs . A new pair of eyes ,new ideas ??????? Don't be so outrageous .Play NICE .

amy researches wrote:

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Read what?

# 17935 . the people on the forum are trying to find out what happened to this young woman . She did not just vaporize into thin air . Any suggestions , fresh ideas should not be scorned or laughed at .

whiston wrote:

Hi all,Mr Lavoie 'told Mr Murray about the rag in the tailpipe'.Mr Lavoie, said the rag was way down in the tailpipe.How did Sgt.Smith know about it on Feb 09 2004.Why was Mr Lavoie even working on the saturn at all.It was not worth fixing and we are told Maura had a new car waiting for her.Whether a dog can trail back and forth I don't know but my guess is no.Still wondering why Sgt.Smith waited at the saturn for so long.If SBD saw someone that was not Maura, what was he supposed to do to keep himself and family safe but say that it was Maura in th e saturn.Mr Murray has deemed Maura's prior life unimportant.How odd is that.take care philip

Maybe Fred told her to put the rag there if she ever had a drink related accident during the converstaion they had after the previous crash. Maybe he told her to do this then leave the scene for a while to sober up. Maybe he hoped the rag in the pipe might give the impression that a fault with the car (stalling) caused the accident if anyone tried to start it. Maybe he then asked someone to check if it was there. Maybe that's why he's so convinced she was harmed: because she carried out half a plan but didn't follow through. Perhaps that's why he sees her past as irrelevant: if she was harmed by someone who just happened by, it is. Just another theory.

findtheanswers wrote:

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# 17935 . the people on the forum are trying to find out what happened to this young woman . She did not just vaporize into thin air . Any suggestions , fresh ideas should not be scorned or laughed at .

Your problem is post #17935? "You are very dangerous people, lacking judgment and appropriate boundaries." That is what she said. Based on how you are acting here, and knowing nothing else about who you are, I would have to agree with her statement. That is how you come off. Your posts to her are rude and scary and make me not want to post here either.

I am trying to find what happened to Maura also, as are most of us who post here. But as an objective observer to this mess that is topix, it does not make those of us who are here with good intentions want to stick around when people are fighting and insulting each other. If a new person comes here who does have information or good ideas, do you think they want to post here when they read all these personal attacks and drama? They just think we all need to be medicated and leave so they won't be attacked too.

What if Maura started walking onto Bradley Hill Road? This would explain why no other cars saw her on 112 and I am assuming that this road does not get anywhere near as much traffic. This road runs parallel to 112 and goes to Route 116. If she headed east on 116 she would have ended back on Route 112 about 5 miles east of the accident at the intersection where Rick Forcier possibly saw her. The distance as almost the same.

Bill- do you know for afact it was an air scent dog- a trailing or a tracking? That followed Maura's scent? I ask because of a woman I work with that handles these dogs- she says there is a big difference when it comes to searching for someone. She seems to think that tracking dogs often do the most sensitive and intense work. Wondering what your opinion is on this.

Given the time frame between the first call to LE and the conversation with SBD, if Maura stuck the rag in the tailpipe after the latter would she be likely to burn her hand? Enough to need medical attention?

I only ask because, if I was trying to lie low while I sobered up and injured myself while trying to stage a reason for a crash other than drinking I might get into a vehicle with the person who could take me a good distance away for two reasons:

1: going to a nearby residence would reveal both the drinking AND the cover up.

2: I want to receive treatment ASAP but in a location far enough away for people not to link the injury with the accident.

I genuinely don't know how hot the tailpipe might be and I'm certainly not asserting that this is what happened. Just curious.

findtheanswers wrote:

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Snowy , all you do is Brow Bash . Why don't you give yourself a hug and then put a sock in it , you and all your awesomeness !!

And what exactly are you doing right now? I just don't get some of you on this forum.

I guess I've read enough on this forum to last a lifetime. I've got all that I need from here thank you.
All the ones that have been here for years, my hats off to you for putting up with the rudest, nastiest most insulting people I think I've ever known to post on an internet forum.
To the ones that replied to me with respect and kindness I thank you very much. It was appreciated.
To the ones that were rude and obnoxious to a new poster(you know who you are) there's karma. It bites you in the butt when it's least expected.
Thanks, it's been a real trip.

vocallocal wrote:

I guess I've read enough on this forum to last a lifetime. I've got all that I need from here thank you.
All the ones that have been here for years, my hats off to you for putting up with the rudest, nastiest most insulting people I think I've ever known to post on an internet forum.
To the ones that replied to me with respect and kindness I thank you very much. It was appreciated.
To the ones that were rude and obnoxious to a new poster(you know who you are) there's karma. It bites you in the butt when it's least expected.
Thanks, it's been a real trip.

Really? Well I don't care.

I have to agree "Mr. Noatak", when all else fails we have to go back to the facts. The tracking dog (a bloodhound) followed MM's scent 100 yards down the road on Wednesday, February 11, 2004. The next day a Belgian Malinois was unable to track any scent of MM in the bush near the crash location at WB corner or leading away from that site.

Tracking dogs can follow a scent even when the missing subject was inside a moving vehicle.

So that would lead one to conclude that MM got into a vehicle either because she was being picked up pursuant to a pre-arranged plan, she accepted a ride from an unknown passerby or she was unwillingly abducted from the accident site.

The tracking dog(s) tell the story. MM did not travel very far from where her car slid off the road. JMO

mcsmom wrote:

I have to agree "Mr. Noatak", when all else fails we have to go back to the facts. The tracking dog (a bloodhound) followed MM's scent 100 yards down the road on Wednesday, February 11, 2004. The next day a Belgian Malinois was unable to track any scent of MM in the bush near the crash location at WB corner or leading away from that site.
Tracking dogs can follow a scent even when the missing subject was inside a moving vehicle.
So that would lead one to conclude that MM got into a vehicle either because she was being picked up pursuant to a pre-arranged plan, she accepted a ride from an unknown passerby or she was unwillingly abducted from the accident site.
The tracking dog(s) tell the story. MM did not travel very far from where her car slid off the road. JMO

You need to get a life.

The red truck took her

Laurieisgone wrote:

Bill- do you know for afact it was an air scent dog- a trailing or a tracking? That followed Maura's scent? I ask because of a woman I work with that handles these dogs- she says there is a big difference when it comes to searching for someone. She seems to think that tracking dogs often do the most sensitive and intense work. Wondering what your opinion is on this.

No. I no longer remember (if I ever knew) if the dogs used were tracking or trailing or if they were air scent or if they were scent discrimination or if multiple types were used. The only ones that I do know (the CCSAR and NEk9 handlers and dogs) I don't know which dogs were used during the searches.

There was very little information of the searches released that I remember.

I would also agree that a tracking dog would likely be more useful in this type of search where the persons last known point was known. Being that it is following scent laying on the ground. It doesn't disperse as easily as air scent does. They are also likely to be following actual footsteps of the person, so they are actually following the track of the person, not the drifting of the scent.

Bill

The damn rag in the tailpipe, it's gotta b the strangest thing about this case.
I'm trying but I just can't c any reason why anybody, Maura, perp or friendly passerby putting it in there post crash, just makes no sense on any level.

I know several posters have tried putting a rag in their tailpip and it just got blown out, which makes sense.
But then we got lavoie, who is a highly experienced mechanic who's been fixing cars for years now saying it is a good way to disable a car.
I asked a good friend of mine who's a professional mechanic and been working on cars for 30 yrs and he said u most definitely can get a rag to stay in the tailpipe.
He said thats an old school method of troubleshooting a motor.
He also said u can not just shove a rag up there as it'll blow out.
There is a very specific way of folding the rag up that'll make it so it can stay. It's not airtight so the RAg will let some exhaust out. He said depending on how well the car runs & what's wrong w it, the car will run generally for 3-5mins but anywhere up to 20 if the car has major problems. He also said that saturns will lose compression in one of their cylinders which is most likely what the family was talking about when saying it only ran on 3, & this is also the kind of problem that would allow a car to run a little longer.
Basically the car wouldn't stall immediately because the rag doesn't seal it airtight, this is also why the rag doesn't blow out. But the car would be running way to rich(I think it's rich) not being able to exhaust properly.

So is it possible someone disabled her car with the rag? Yes definitely. Is it likely? Idk, seems pretty hard to believe.
But it also seems hard to believe that she vanished when she was there 3 min before LE.
Also Seems pretty hard to believe that the Allen prue & his wife would mirder Melissa bc he wanted to get a girl. Really? His wife was willing, and obviously wanted, to help him "get" a girl? That's so fkn whacked, what r the chances of that?
The fact is that weird thing happen every day. Weird, one in a million, what's the chances of that happening Kind of shit things happen every day. If they didn't, no one would ever get abducted under strange circumstances.

Is it theoretically possible someone folded the rag and put it in her tailpipe and then waited a couple miles down the road for her? It certainly is possible & honestly stranger things than that have happened, although I do gotta say this would b one of the more peculiar abductions if that was shown to b the case.
Who's to say the perp wasn't a mechanic?
If u know how to do that Its actually a great way to abduct someone.
If u know their car is gonna die within a few miles that would be a great way to get her in your truck, your just the nice passerby about to save her from her fate w the cops.
It also appears that she actually lost control before she hit the corner, not after. Considering the rd conditions that night this is hard to explain without her car dying before she hit the corner. IMO her car died, when yur car dies while moving u lose power steering and your dashboard lights up like a Xmas tree. She probably looked downbc her dash was flashing and when she looked up she was heading for the snowbank on the other side of the road and without power steering she had a hard time regaining control.

Not saying this is what happened but when u combine that w the report of a red truck that was looking for someone and/or waiting for someone, it begins to become a little more possible that this is actually what happened.

So we got a rag in the tailpipe which could disable a car if done properly, we got witnesses seeing someone in a red truck acting rather strange. And we have evidence/testimony showIng that her car actually died before the corner not after, which indicates that the car did become disabled.

I don't know if I think this is what happened but there's a few things that r hard to ignore imo

mcsmom wrote:

Tracking dogs can follow a scent even when the missing subject was inside a moving vehicle.

I have heard you repeat this several times and have heard it before. As a practical matter, what does this mean? Does the dog follow the moving vehicle by driving the handler where the car has gone? How is this supposed to work, as a practical matter?

I don't know that this is true. I have never heard this tested or proved.

Did one of the handlers tell you that, or are you just repeating something you have heard? And even if one of the handlers stated this, are there any studies that have been done that show this true?

Bill