Maura Murray

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#18184
Mar 31, 2012
 

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WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
The dog also, only the handler can say for sure. But, if the glove was touched by Maura the dog would have the scent. But again, air scent dogs track scent that is on the air. And the wind would likely be either east-west on the road. Air scent dogs follow exactly that. Scent of the person on the air not actually the person.
Hope that helps clarify.
Bill
Bill, can I bother you again please? Could you please further clarify what it means that "the wind would likely be either east-west on the road"?

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#18185
Mar 31, 2012
 

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amy researches wrote:
<quoted text>
Bill, can I bother you again please? Could you please further clarify what it means that "the wind would likely be either east-west on the road"?
I only mean that the wind would be strongest up or down the road, either one way or the other rather than across the road. Simply just a case of less resistance along the road rather than the wind fighting through the trees. So the scent would be pushed in that direction, up or down the road, more than across the road.

Hope this makes sense.

Bill

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#18186
Mar 31, 2012
 

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WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
I only mean that the wind would be strongest up or down the road, either one way or the other rather than across the road. Simply just a case of less resistance along the road rather than the wind fighting through the trees. So the scent would be pushed in that direction, up or down the road, more than across the road.
Hope this makes sense.
Bill
I'm dyslexic, so I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass. It just happens. LOL. I guess what I'm asking is, is there any chance that by the time they used this dog, that the scent had blown from the car area to where her scent was last tracked east? Sorry if that is a completely stupid question, but I would rather ask than misunderstand what the possibilities are.

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#18187
Mar 31, 2012
 

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amy researches wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm dyslexic, so I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass. It just happens. LOL. I guess what I'm asking is, is there any chance that by the time they used this dog, that the scent had blown from the car area to where her scent was last tracked east? Sorry if that is a completely stupid question, but I would rather ask than misunderstand what the possibilities are.
Not a stupid question. I don't think so but, considering she was seen to loiter around the car for a while, it stands to reason that their would have been a large pool of scent to be blown around......down the road, possibly. How far that could move is an interesting question. I have seen a dog follow my scent 100 feet away from my actual path, then turn abruptly when downwind from me and follow the scent directly to my location. That was only with about an hour of light breeze between when I laid the scent and the dog followed it. With stronger breezes and less obstructions (this particular track was in the woods) how far could that scent pool be blown down the road? I can't answer that question. I tend to believe it could have been a pretty good distance. And again, we are talking about air scent dogs.

Hope this helps clarify what I an writing about.

Bill

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#18188
Mar 31, 2012
 

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WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a stupid question. I don't think so but, considering she was seen to loiter around the car for a while, it stands to reason that their would have been a large pool of scent to be blown around......down the road, possibly. How far that could move is an interesting question. I have seen a dog follow my scent 100 feet away from my actual path, then turn abruptly when downwind from me and follow the scent directly to my location. That was only with about an hour of light breeze between when I laid the scent and the dog followed it. With stronger breezes and less obstructions (this particular track was in the woods) how far could that scent pool be blown down the road? I can't answer that question. I tend to believe it could have been a pretty good distance. And again, we are talking about air scent dogs.
Hope this helps clarify what I an writing about.
Bill
Yes it does. Thank you again.
Abdul

Noida, India

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#18189
Apr 1, 2012
 

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WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
Not a stupid question. I don't think so but, considering she was seen to loiter around the car for a while, it stands to reason that their would have been a large pool of scent to be blown around......down the road, possibly. How far that could move is an interesting question. I have seen a dog follow my scent 100 feet away from my actual path, then turn abruptly when downwind from me and follow the scent directly to my location. That was only with about an hour of light breeze between when I laid the scent and the dog followed it. With stronger breezes and less obstructions (this particular track was in the woods) how far could that scent pool be blown down the road? I can't answer that question. I tend to believe it could have been a pretty good distance. And again, we are talking about air scent dogs.
Hope this helps clarify what I an writing about.
Bill
Billiam is dat you?
anonymousone

Plattsburgh, NY

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#18190
Apr 1, 2012
 

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If she vanished in only 7-8 minutes between the time of arrival of police and the time Butch Atwood saw her then we could even narrow the time down further. One of the neighbors said that she saw the interior light turn on and off and also someone open the trunk of the Saturn after Butch Atwood saw her. In addition she walked/ran 100 yards east. So with all of this taken into account we even have about 3-4 more minutes accounted for. Maura Murray literally vanished in 3 minutes.
AcidHouseMartin

Milton Keynes, UK

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#18191
Apr 1, 2012
 

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anonymousone wrote:
If she vanished in only 7-8 minutes between the time of arrival of police and the time Butch Atwood saw her then we could even narrow the time down further. One of the neighbors said that she saw the interior light turn on and off and also someone open the trunk of the Saturn after Butch Atwood saw her. In addition she walked/ran 100 yards east. So with all of this taken into account we even have about 3-4 more minutes accounted for. Maura Murray literally vanished in 3 minutes.
It is a very small window. I'm never sure, though, how people can be sure that this is the point she 'vanished'. If she was looking to put a little space between her and the accident, she might have flagged down a car and asked for a lift to somewhere she could rest up, maybe sleep, in comfort before planning to return to the vehicle later. While a person picking her up at the accident scene may have hurt her, they may also have taken her safely to either a destination of her choosing or somewhere they knew of along their own route such as a motel or something. She could have been harmed, or accidentally injured as she tried to return to the vehicle instead of as she left it. Equally, she may have taken a lift a certain distance with someone from the crash scene then picked up another ride or started a further journey on foot.

With no immediate comprehensive search and a lack of leads, nothing seems certain in this case other than a young woman is unaccounted for.
AcidHouseMartin

Milton Keynes, UK

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#18192
Apr 1, 2012
 

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I say this from the perspective of a former hitchhiker, BTW.

Seldom does one journey get you to your destination. On two occassions, I asked a driver to stop and got out. Once because the driver was smashed on mushrooms and once because the guy claimed to be a doctor and wanted to inject me with something.

I would've been able to over come either in a struggle but there was none. They were just odd people with issues.

The first time, the guy's driving was lethal. I decided I'd have more chances of survival sleeping in a field in the middle of winter than saying in the car. In short, Maura might be 'in the woods' and have entered them willingly but there's no way of telling which woods. Could be anywhere.
mcsmom

Hebron, CT

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#18193
Apr 1, 2012
 

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WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
No. I no longer remember (if I ever knew) if the dogs used were tracking or trailing or if they were air scent or if they were scent discrimination or if multiple types were used. The only ones that I do know (the CCSAR and NEk9 handlers and dogs) I don't know which dogs were used during the searches.
There was very little information of the searches released that I remember.
I would also agree that a tracking dog would likely be more useful in this type of search where the persons last known point was known. Being that it is following scent laying on the ground. It doesn't disperse as easily as air scent does. They are also likely to be following actual footsteps of the person, so they are actually following the track of the person, not the drifting of the scent.
Bill
WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
I am familiar with the dog NEK9 used and Nancy who sadly passed away last year. I am also familiar with and have worked with CCSAR, the people and dogs. I have opinions on both the groups based upon what I have seen working with them and other groups not used. I am not familiar with any of the other dogs or handlers used in these searches (other than the ones mentioned) and don't know their capabilities.
Bill
Air, Ground Search Futile
FBI Called Into Case
BY GARY E. LINDSLEY, Staff Writer 2/20/04

HAVERHILL, NH - Nancy Lyon and her canine partner, a 3-year-old malinois, Quicklie, spent most of
Thursday morning scouring a section of Route 112 for a missing 21-year-old Hanson, Mass.,
woman.

Bill,

Because there is documentation that they have been used since at least the fourteenth century to trail human beings.
They are logistically efficient - one dog and one handler.
A Bloodhound team (dog and handler) routinely trains on aged trails 12, 24, 48, 72 or more hours old in varied environments and weather conditions.
Courts will accept a Bloodhound team's testimony without challenge if the handler has kept training records which document the hounds experience under conditions similar to the case at hand.
A Bloodhound team can tell you:
The direction the subject took from the PLS or Last Known Point (LKP), narrowing the search area.
If the person got in a car.
If a "clue" that is found a distance from the PLS belongs to the subject, thus establishing a new LKP and direction of travel.
If a sighting "down the road" or some distance away was real.
A Bloodhound can pick a subject out of a crowd of onlookers.
They can trail for miles, right out of the immediate search area
mcsmom

Hebron, CT

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#18194
Apr 1, 2012
 

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By Peter DeMarco, Globe Corresondent, 2/15/2004

Six days have passed since college student Maura Murray crashed her car on a rural highway in northern New Hampshire and disappeared without a trace. But as family, friends, and investigators continue their search for the 21-year-old Hanson native, two questions continue to baffle them: Where was Murray going, and what was she running from?

Using tracking dogs, helicopters, and trained searchers, local and state police, as well as state fish and game officials, covered nearly 20 miles along Route 112, but found no trace of Murray's footprints in the snow. The tracking dogs lost her scent within 100 feet of the accident, leading investigators and her loved ones to believe she either hitched a ride and continued on her way, or was abducted.

Since: Feb 12

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#18195
Apr 1, 2012
 

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Jenkins wrote:
Is it theoretically possible someone folded the rag and put it in her tailpipe and then waited a couple miles down the road for her? It certainly is possible & honestly stranger things than that have happened, although I do gotta say this would b one of the more peculiar abductions if that was shown to b the case.
Who's to say the perp wasn't a mechanic?
If u know how to do that Its actually a great way to abduct someone.
If u know their car is gonna die within a few miles that would be a great way to get her in your truck, your just the nice passerby about to save her from her fate w the cops.
It also appears that she actually lost control before she hit the corner, not after. Considering the rd conditions that night this is hard to explain without her car dying before she hit the corner. IMO her car died, when yur car dies while moving u lose power steering and your dashboard lights up like a Xmas tree. She probably looked downbc her dash was flashing and when she looked up she was heading for the snowbank on the other side of the road and without power steering she had a hard time regaining control.
Not saying this is what happened but when u combine that w the report of a red truck that was looking for someone and/or waiting for someone, it begins to become a little more possible that this is actually what happened.
So we got a rag in the tailpipe which could disable a car if done properly, we got witnesses seeing someone in a red truck acting rather strange. And we have evidence/testimony showIng that her car actually died before the corner not after, which indicates that the car did become disabled.
I don't know if I think this is what happened but there's a few things that r hard to ignore imo
Jenkins - this is what I mean by telling a story but then forgetting some of the simple facts, or bending them to go along with a theory.

There was a rag in Maura's tail pipe - but Fred identified it as hers. Which means for any abductor to do this he would have opened her trunk to find the rag and place it in the tailpipe. Any abductor who is going to plan to disable a car I think would bring their own. No one would break into someones trunk hoping to find something to abduct someone.

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#18196
Apr 1, 2012
 

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AcidHouseMartin wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a very small window. I'm never sure, though, how people can be sure that this is the point she 'vanished'. If she was looking to put a little space between her and the accident, she might have flagged down a car and asked for a lift to somewhere she could rest up, maybe sleep, in comfort before planning to return to the vehicle later. While a person picking her up at the accident scene may have hurt her, they may also have taken her safely to either a destination of her choosing or somewhere they knew of along their own route such as a motel or something. She could have been harmed, or accidentally injured as she tried to return to the vehicle instead of as she left it. Equally, she may have taken a lift a certain distance with someone from the crash scene then picked up another ride or started a further journey on foot.
With no immediate comprehensive search and a lack of leads, nothing seems certain in this case other than a young woman is unaccounted for.
Once she saw SBD she probably new that LE would be on their way, so she could have decided to take a lift with someone.
AcidHouseMartin

Milton Keynes, UK

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#18197
Apr 1, 2012
 

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Lighthouse 101 wrote:
<quoted text>
Once she saw SBD she probably new that LE would be on their way, so she could have decided to take a lift with someone.
And then another lift, and then another.....
Kyle

Los Angeles, CA

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#18198
Apr 1, 2012
 

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Why is this person so important?
Snowy

Gloucester, MA

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#18199
Apr 1, 2012
 

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vocallocal wrote:
I guess I've read enough on this forum to last a lifetime. I've got all that I need from here thank you.
All the ones that have been here for years, my hats off to you for putting up with the rudest, nastiest most insulting people I think I've ever known to post on an internet forum.
To the ones that replied to me with respect and kindness I thank you very much. It was appreciated.
To the ones that were rude and obnoxious to a new poster(you know who you are) there's karma. It bites you in the butt when it's least expected.
Thanks, it's been a real trip.
Good summary, vocallocal. I leave with disgust; very, very few escape my disrespect. Keep wallowing in the toxins, everyone, but consider examining your own reasons for staying. Maura Murray won't be found by the bickering here.

Giving up doesn't always mean you are weak; sometimes it means that you are strong enough to let go.~anonymous

Since: Feb 12

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#18200
Apr 1, 2012
 

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I give up, too.

Take care everyone.
anonymousone

Plattsburgh, NY

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#18201
Apr 1, 2012
 

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I was bored and took a drive out to the accident scene today. Several things struck me that I was not expecting. The white house is very close to the accident almost literally right next to it at a diagonal. I can perfectly understand how the occupants heard the crash. Also Butch Atwood's house was much closer as well and his driveway was not long at all. The pictures seem to make distances deceiving but everything is much closer then previously thought overall. The trees were still bear and from Butch Atwoods driveway you could see the accident through the trees but of course it was dark that night. If someone stopped at the scene or near it I am convinced either the white house or Butch Atwood, SBD, would have seen that happen. Additionally the terrain is not as flat as I was expecting and it is very mountainous with numerous hills.
anonymousone

Plattsburgh, NY

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#18202
Apr 1, 2012
 

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I also want to ad that there was an incredible number of beer cans along the road including 5 miles past the accident scene. Additionally that road gets a lot of traffic far more than I expected. Also there were numerous hikers and campers in the area all along 112 so I am assuming if something was to be found in the woods they would have discovered it by now. Also there were alot of houses along the road and I wouldn't call this area extremely isolated by any means. Lots and lots of trees though.
Jim

Los Angeles, CA

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#18203
Apr 1, 2012
 

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I think Big Foot got her for his mate.

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