Maura Murray

Ok, one more thought and it's bedtime. When police saw Fred come in with that knife, it's no wonder to me now that they needed him to mail it in. I've been reading all kinds of similar articles about potential evidence. The weapon in this case would go right to the proper people ready to test such things.

anonymousone wrote:

<quoted text>
Maura had locked her car though so this indicates that she was attempting to leave her car for at least a short time.

OR, if you believe Maura was not there because someone took her car from her and attempted to ditch it on one of the backroads....they might lock the car to keep police out while they ran. It wouldn't be to protect Maura's belongings, it would be to stop the search, prolong it, destoy or taint evidence, like when they were driving for example.(if they were, not saying I think so). The seat was all moved back, adjusted to suit a taller person, whatever. Walky talky's are possible, right? Can you use walky talky's in that area? Maybe. That would be one way for say another driver to communicate with someone on foot. To tell them where they are now, come get them.

*a couple people were observed walking nearby that night.........it's walk, don't run if your caught in the beams, or high beams. To be nonchalant, less give yourself away on the spot. Was RO one of those people they took note of, walking? This is all new to me. Never heard of two people seen walking until recently.
I don't know, that's why I'm asking. Just something to think about I guess.

There are couple of things I can not make sense of. Maura had walked at least 100 yards east. With this taken into account either she had to have gone eastward, up bradley hill road, or accepted a ride at that location. If she did accept a ride then figure the vehicle would have been stopped for 30 seconds-2 minutes and Butch Atwood should have seen it since the scent trail stopped at his driveway. Likewise if she kept headed east then cars should have seen her with the amount of traffic Route 112 gets. Additionally there were snowbanks on both sides and not really anywhere to go off the road and about 20 miles of route 112 was searched and nothing was found. I do not understand how Butch Atwood did not see a car pick her up but I also do not understand how these passing cars did not see anyone at all. The situation is baffling. Does anyone have any ideas?

anonymousone wrote:

There are couple of things I can not make sense of. Maura had walked at least 100 yards east. With this taken into account either she had to have gone eastward, up bradley hill road, or accepted a ride at that location. If she did accept a ride then figure the vehicle would have been stopped for 30 seconds-2 minutes and Butch Atwood should have seen it since the scent trail stopped at his driveway. Likewise if she kept headed east then cars should have seen her with the amount of traffic Route 112 gets. Additionally there were snowbanks on both sides and not really anywhere to go off the road and about 20 miles of route 112 was searched and nothing was found. I do not understand how Butch Atwood did not see a car pick her up but I also do not understand how these passing cars did not see anyone at all. The situation is baffling. Does anyone have any ideas?

From the M Conway article:
"Atwood spoke to the 911 operator from the front porch of his house. He could see the road, but Maura's car was not in his line of sight. As he spoke, a few cars passed by but Atwood was not able to identify any of them."

At some point Atwood was on his front porch, not in his bus. I´m not familiar with the layout of his house, so I don´t know if the place where the scent trail ended was within sight from there, but maybe an explanation as to why he didn´t see anything.

anonymousone wrote:

There are couple of things I can not make sense of. Maura had walked at least 100 yards east. With this taken into account either she had to have gone eastward, up bradley hill road, or accepted a ride at that location. If she did accept a ride then figure the vehicle would have been stopped for 30 seconds-2 minutes and Butch Atwood should have seen it since the scent trail stopped at his driveway. Likewise if she kept headed east then cars should have seen her with the amount of traffic Route 112 gets. Additionally there were snowbanks on both sides and not really anywhere to go off the road and about 20 miles of route 112 was searched and nothing was found. I do not understand how Butch Atwood did not see a car pick her up but I also do not understand how these passing cars did not see anyone at all. The situation is baffling. Does anyone have any ideas?

Ideas....ok, I'll try.

1) The scent dog missed out on her scent for one reason or another.

2) The driver, presumably Maura, never did get in a car.
That might explain the (unexplained) footprints found in someones back yard.

3) We don't have clearance. We are all baffled, but to be sure, we do NOT have what police have. And that might NOT be much. Frankly, I'm really starting to wonder.........

4) Maura DREAMED for years and years under those same blue skies. She WANTED to go back there in the worst way, and had set GOALS to return in some sort of way. Forestry? Fish and game?

5) Desperation set in with all the mounting pressure. She would do whatever it took to start up a new life.

paris wrote:

Ok, one more thought and it's bedtime. When police saw Fred come in with that knife, it's no wonder to me now that they needed him to mail it in. I've been reading all kinds of similar articles about potential evidence. The weapon in this case would go right to the proper people ready to test such things.

No one asked or said they needed him to mail it in. We were up north searching for Maura one weekend and he was given the knife in a plastic bag. He went to Concord State police and he said he had possible evidence of a crime. He was told there was no officer available and that he could come back during the week. He had to return to work so this is why he mailed it in. I have stated in a previous posting sometime ago that there was no officer available to accept it so that is why Fred mailed it to the Concord State police.

paris wrote:

*a couple people were observed walking nearby that night.........it's walk, don't run if your caught in the beams, or high beams. To be nonchalant, less give yourself away on the spot. Was RO one of those people they took note of, walking? This is all new to me. Never heard of two people seen walking until recently.
I don't know, that's why I'm asking. Just something to think about I guess.

No RO was not one of those people they took note of walking. A person was seen walking near the Eddys by one person which is not right near the accident scene and another witness saw someone walking on 112 toward 302. Dont know if this person seen walking was the same person that both witnesses saw or if infact it had anything to do with Maura. This info was given to those who were investigating Mauras case along time ago.

hannah_b wrote:

<quoted text>
From the M Conway article:
"Atwood spoke to the 911 operator from the front porch of his house. He could see the road, but Maura's car was not in his line of sight. As he spoke, a few cars passed by but Atwood was not able to identify any of them."
At some point Atwood was on his front porch, not in his bus. I´m not familiar with the layout of his house, so I don´t know if the place where the scent trail ended was within sight from there, but maybe an explanation as to why he didn´t see anything.

People jump to conclusions all the time without realizing what it might sound like. I finally get it. Look mom, ;)lol.
This man just got done with one long day of hauling people to and fro ~A ski trip. He was likely tired and hungry. But whether wide awake and full, from a good dinner break.~he stopped to help someone on his road. He did. And once rejected, he drove home and called police. The lines were somehow out of whack.....
The phone rings while he's on his bus doing paperwork,~outside in the cold. And why you ask?( I'm on a roll ;)

BECAUSE, he's concerned for her. He cares. I wish I could underline that. He cared enough to do things outside of his norm that night. To drive over and stop for this accident, call, relay the information to his former wife. To stand on the porch, return to his bus, and wait for police and likely EMT's, heck throw in a tow truck too. And he's waiting for the police just in case he can help. He did help. He spent TIME driving the roads for even a trace of the now missing driver.
What more can you ask for in 10 minutes, more or less? No one is expecting her to just TAKE OFF. Was Maura there? Was she drinking? We might never know, even though I, for one: really, really wish I could.
For her sake.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>No one asked or said they needed him to mail it in. We were up north searching for Maura one weekend and he was given the knife in a plastic bag. He went to Concord State police and he said he had possible evidence of a crime. He was told there was no officer available and that he could come back during the week. He had to return to work so this is why he mailed it in. I have stated in a previous posting sometime ago that there was no officer available to accept it so that is why Fred mailed it to the Concord State police.

Thank you citigirl. I appreciate your setting the facts straight about the knife. I will retain this now and in return, I can speak out correctly on this issue. Dang it feels good to be righted. I sincerly mean that and I hope you know it too.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>No RO was not one of those people they took note of walking. A person was seen walking near the Eddys by one person which is not right near the accident scene and another witness saw someone walking on 112 toward 302. Dont know if this person seen walking was the same person that both witnesses saw or if infact it had anything to do with Maura. This info was given to those who were investigating Mauras case along time ago.

Again, thank you as it's helpful reaaly, to all.

I guess it's curtains for tonight, it's been a long day.

Just me--paris wrote:

<quoted text>
Ideas....ok, I'll try.
1) The scent dog missed out on her scent for one reason or another.
2) The driver, presumably Maura, never did get in a car.
That might explain the (unexplained) footprints found in someones back yard.
3) We don't have clearance. We are all baffled, but to be sure, we do NOT have what police have. And that might NOT be much. Frankly, I'm really starting to wonder.........
4) Maura DREAMED for years and years under those same blue skies. She WANTED to go back there in the worst way, and had set GOALS to return in some sort of way. Forestry? Fish and game?
5) Desperation set in with all the mounting pressure. She would do whatever it took to start up a new life.

Please keep in mind (whomever spammed me for this post), I'm not trying to cause any gossip if that's what you think. If it's because of the fish and game part, I was daydreaming along Maura's supposed lines and thinking about the email to JJcampground. I was also going by what everyone has said about Maura,!that she absolutely loved and adored the White Mountains.

Is anyone aware how reliable search dogs are? I believe that the search dog did indeed track her scent 100 yards east on Route 112 but am uncertain if she was picked up there by a vehicle or if she kept walking/running. Does anyone have some info on this? My understanding is search dogs (non-cadaver) can track a specific scent for up to 3 weeks reliably as long as conditions are favorable. The search was done just 2 days after the accident.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

I remember Snowy and I? Wowzer, maybe? discussing the similarities in the missing Jessica Ronhock case (nursing student, went missing, said there was a family emergency, when there wasn't, etc).
Tragically, she's been found dead - her car was located, perhaps driven off the side of the road down an embankment? Perhaps suicide.

I know the stretch of highway where she went off (Arizona I-17 south of Flagstaff). Not per se precisely where she went off but that area generally. I-17 has a 75 mph speed limit in most places, and it passes through some very rugged terrain. To someone unfamiliar with the road, particularly if driving at night, it is quite dangerous as what would be a more or less minor mistake elsewhere on a curve can be a major error on this road. Given the accident was apparently in January, there may also have been ice on the road as the area sustained several snowfalls. Another possibility is that she tried to swerve to avoid an elk -- one has to really watch out for them on this highway in the Flagstaff area, they are quite large and you don't want to hit them which in and of itself can cause a severe accident.

Given the above, I would tend to doubt that she was trying to commit suicide.

I also think her accident occurred at night, because the highway is pretty heavily traveled during the day -- not so later at night. During the day, she probably would have been seen going off the road and over the cliff as there are no particular obstructions to view along there on both the northbound section and the southbound.

Years ago I watched a 60 minutes/20-20 type program featuring a bloodhound sniffing and following a scent up the side of a road...I only remember it because he was relentless/slobbering..sweatin g and his owner handler was stressing cuz the dog couldn't or wouldn't slow.....finally just stopping him to cool him down...and then off the dog went again..to follow a car with a scent...I remember it only because I felt sorry for the dog...

From what I've read and been told, a bloodhound has the best natural/genetic *scenting* ability. The wrinkles and folds on the face and around the mouth help to capture scent, plus they have a high degree of ability to smell due to the nerves and other structures of the nasal and mucous membranes in nose and mouth.

They slobber a lot, it's really kinda gross IMHO -- I have a friend who has bloodhounds, and one of them will sling his/her head and send "slime" flying to land just anywhere (since they are big dogs, it can even be onto the table). But that very slobber is part of their high scenting ability, as the moisture of it also helps trap scent.

On the MM episode of Disappeared, where mention was made about the dog search a couple of days after she went missing, while the words were being said the camera was showing video of a German Shepherd that seemed to be searching along a roadway. The implication was that it was a German Shep that was the dog that was employed on MM's search. However, I don't know -- maybe they just used footage of "a" search dog, not necessarily "the" search dog.

The scent ended at Butch Atwoods driveway. When he arrived he backed his bus into his driveway and got his cordless phone then went out onto the porch. He likely took at least a couple minutes to say hi to his wife, mother etc.. and of course he wasn't expecting someone to go missing. What if she got into a vehicle at the moment when he was inside at momentarily was not watching?

Advocate..agreed...the bloodhounds ears were dragging...if it had a been a human, I would say hyper-ventilating.. I was disappointed that a bloodhound was not used on 2/10....if my daughter went missing today,,I would pay $$$$ for a bloodhound...
Even at dog shows some dogs wear bibs....

My personal thoughts of the "footage" was arggh!

I read Fred Murrays narrative statement to the Massachusetts University Police at Amherst and discovered that he sounded agitated about Maura wrecking his car and (somewhat understandably so) and Maura was very upset. Maura whimpered often when spoke to him about the accident and when she went back into the dorm she appeared upset and moving slowly as if she was thinking deeply. I think that with the combination of Maura discovering her bf, Billy, cheated on her and her wrecking her fathers car this stressed her out and she simply wanted to get away for a couple days. I think that the 'staged accident' theory should be completely thrown out. But on top of all of this she just had wrecked her own car and didn't have any idea what to do about her father being angry or agitated etc. . At that point in time especially after the second accident in NH many events just unfolded that probably 'shocked' her and I don't feel she was thinking rationally at all. I am just trying to think about what I would do if all that was going on and what action I would take in her circumstances. This is on top of the credit card misuse charge she recieved earler and potential DWI with this new accident. Maybe she just took a ride without thinking clearly about what to do next and this is when something happened.