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Jenkins
Astoria, NY
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Lighthouse 101 wrote: <quoted text>
Jenkins - this is what I mean by telling a story but then forgetting some of the simple facts, or bending them to go along with a theory.
There was a rag in Maura's tail pipe - but Fred identified it as hers. Which means for any abductor to do this he would have opened her trunk to find the rag and place it in the tailpipe. Any abductor who is going to plan to disable a car I think would bring their own. No one would break into someones trunk hoping to find something to abduct someone. Your totally right about the abductor bringing his own rag if this was the scenario. & this is why I said that this scenario is probably unlikely. But u have to remember that the only fact that is known about this RAg was that it was found in her tailpipe. I know Fred said to lavoie that he told her to put it there but I would hardly call it a fact that she put it there or Fred even told her to do that. Think about it, that's the worlds stupidest advice, ever. Have u ever heard of anyone ever tellin their 21yr old daughter, or anyone for that matter, to put a rag in their tailpipe if their car is smoking? Who the hell has ever heard of that? The whole thing is hinky and unbelievable. Has there ever been anything, except Fred saying it, that makes this a fact? Has it ever been shown it was the tag from her trunk? Was the rag from her trunk gone? Notice he never said that he looked in the trunk and that was the RAg in the tailpipe. No, he just said that he told her to. At this point we have a lot of inconstancies-out right lies that Fred has said, why r we trusting this, which theoretically could b the crux of the case, as a fact? We also thought it was a fact that they had picked out a car and he was coming back the next wknd to buy it. Well now it turns out that he actually had 4 g's on him and not one of her friends recall her mentioning looking at cars I'm not saying this is what happened but when u have a Rag in her tailpipe, evidence her car died before she came upon the corner and you have witnesses placing someone in the area looking for someone who would b walking; this demands further scrutiny. I just feel like the rag in the tailpipe just might b that crucial piece of evidence that's been written off for no better reason than a few posters who have no idea what they're doing tried stuffing one in their tailpipe and it blew out. It could've been used to disable her car, there's evidence that her car was in fact disabled. & we have someone waiting in the area, which certainly could b interpreted as someone waiting for her car to break down. The only thing countering this is that Fred claimed he told her to put it there. That's not a fact, Thad a statement that hasn't been anywhere close to proven as fact. I wouldn't say I'm bending facts to fit the story, at least I can promise u that I'm trying not to do that. Ok the flip side, isn't stating that maira put the RAg there herself as a fact, just bc Fred said so, isn't that actually bending the facts? The only fact we have is that the rag was found in her tailpipe & that smith felt the need to look in the tailpipe that night. I still want to kno why smith even looked in her tailpipe. I feel like he thought the car died neorealism the corner too, just like the ems drive and lavoie. I also feel like he might've thought she was abducted bc of this fact. Even if a car dies before a corner, why look up a tailpipe unless u thought someone may have intentionally disabled the car somehow? Thinking about it that is the only reason I can come up with for looking in her tailpipe. Can anyone think of one legitimate reason to look up a tailpipe unless u think something bad happened? Just that fact alone makes me think smith thought something bad happened that night.
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hannah_b
Sweden
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Jenkins wrote: <quoted text>
Your totally right about the abductor bringing his own rag if this was the scenario. & this is why I said that this scenario is probably unlikely.
But u have to remember that the only fact that is known about this RAg was that it was found in her tailpipe.
I know Fred said to lavoie that he told her to put it there but I would hardly call it a fact that she put it there or Fred even told her to do that.
Think about it, that's the worlds stupidest advice, ever. Have u ever heard of anyone ever tellin their 21yr old daughter, or anyone for that matter, to put a rag in their tailpipe if their car is smoking? Who the hell has ever heard of that?
The whole thing is hinky and unbelievable.
Has there ever been anything, except Fred saying it, that makes this a fact?
Has it ever been shown it was the tag from her trunk?
Was the rag from her trunk gone?
Notice he never said that he looked in the trunk and that was the RAg in the tailpipe.
No, he just said that he told her to.
At this point we have a lot of inconstancies-out right lies that Fred has said, why r we trusting this, which theoretically could b the crux of the case, as a fact?
We also thought it was a fact that they had picked out a car and he was coming back the next wknd to buy it.
Well now it turns out that he actually had 4 g's on him and not one of her friends recall her mentioning looking at cars
I'm not saying this is what happened but when u have a Rag in her tailpipe, evidence her car died before she came upon the corner and you have witnesses placing someone in the area looking for someone who would b walking; this demands further scrutiny.
I just feel like the rag in the tailpipe just might b that crucial piece of evidence that's been written off for no better reason than a few posters who have no idea what they're doing tried stuffing one in their tailpipe and it blew out.
It could've been used to disable her car, there's evidence that her car was in fact disabled. & we have someone waiting in the area, which certainly could b interpreted as someone waiting for her car to break down.
The only thing countering this is that Fred claimed he told her to put it there.
That's not a fact, Thad a statement that hasn't been anywhere close to proven as fact.
I wouldn't say I'm bending facts to fit the story, at least I can promise u that I'm trying not to do that.
Ok the flip side, isn't stating that maira put the RAg there herself as a fact, just bc Fred said so, isn't that actually bending the facts?
The only fact we have is that the rag was found in her tailpipe & that smith felt the need to look in the tailpipe that night.
I still want to kno why smith even looked in her tailpipe. I feel like he thought the car died neorealism the corner too, just like the ems drive and lavoie. I also feel like he might've thought she was abducted bc of this fact.
Even if a car dies before a corner, why look up a tailpipe unless u thought someone may have intentionally disabled the car somehow?
Thinking about it that is the only reason I can come up with for looking in her tailpipe.
Can anyone think of one legitimate reason to look up a tailpipe unless u think something bad happened?
Just that fact alone makes me think smith thought something bad happened that night. WHY would Fred say he told Maura to put a rag up the tail pipe if he didn´t? Then again, if he really said it, WHY would he give her such crappy advice? WHY would he still be carrying around the 4g if they really had picked out a car for Maura to be delivered the week after? Wouldn´t the money have been used as down payment on the car? WHY is it that nothing Fred says ever makes sense if he isn´t hiding anything? I´m not saying he necessarily harmed his daughter, just that he may know more than he´s letting on.
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Since: Jan 12
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Jenkins wrote: <quoted text>I still want to kno why smith even looked in her tailpipe. I feel like he thought the car died neorealism the corner too, just like the ems drive and lavoie. I also feel like he might've thought she was abducted bc of this fact.Even if a car dies before a corner, why look up a tailpipe unless u thought someone may have intentionally disabled the car somehow?
Thinking about it that is the only reason I can come up with for looking in her tailpipe.
Can anyone think of one legitimate reason to look up a tailpipe unless u think something bad happened?Just that fact alone makes me think smith thought something bad happened that night. just guessing the officer was checking the underside of the car for damage or he smelled gasoline & though there was a leak & then saw that rag. didn't she just fill up with gas at a local pump, maybe it spilled down the car? if the folks in that white house saw a young lady in a bind, didn't they go out & help her?
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Anne
Cabot, VT
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It seems to me if you are going to buy a car in another state that having cash on hand will provide a better deal, if in fact her Dad had that cash.
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Since: Feb 12
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hannah_b wrote: <quoted text>
WHY would Fred say he told Maura to put a rag up the tail pipe if he didn´t? Then again, if he really said it, WHY would he give her such crappy advice?
WHY would he still be carrying around the 4g if they really had picked out a car for Maura to be delivered the week after? Wouldn´t the money have been used as down payment on the car?
WHY is it that nothing Fred says ever makes sense if he isn´t hiding anything? I´m not saying he necessarily harmed his daughter, just that he may know more than he´s letting on. Yes I agree. How come everything he says is spoken like a riddle?
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Since: Nov 08
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mcsmom wrote: <quoted text>
<quoted text>
Air, Ground Search Futile
FBI Called Into Case
BY GARY E. LINDSLEY, Staff Writer 2/20/04
HAVERHILL, NH - Nancy Lyon and her canine partner, a 3-year-old malinois, Quicklie, spent most of
Thursday morning scouring a section of Route 112 for a missing 21-year-old Hanson, Mass.,
woman.
Bill,
Because there is documentation that they have been used since at least the fourteenth century to trail human beings.
They are logistically efficient - one dog and one handler.
A Bloodhound team (dog and handler) routinely trains on aged trails 12, 24, 48, 72 or more hours old in varied environments and weather conditions.
Courts will accept a Bloodhound team's testimony without challenge if the handler has kept training records which document the hounds experience under conditions similar to the case at hand.
A Bloodhound team can tell you:
The direction the subject took from the PLS or Last Known Point (LKP), narrowing the search area.
If the person got in a car.
If a "clue" that is found a distance from the PLS belongs to the subject, thus establishing a new LKP and direction of travel.
If a sighting "down the road" or some distance away was real.
A Bloodhound can pick a subject out of a crowd of onlookers.
They can trail for miles, right out of the immediate search area mcsmom wrote: By Peter DeMarco, Globe Corresondent, 2/15/2004
Six days have passed since college student Maura Murray crashed her car on a rural highway in northern New Hampshire and disappeared without a trace. But as family, friends, and investigators continue their search for the 21-year-old Hanson native, two questions continue to baffle them: Where was Murray going, and what was she running from?
Using tracking dogs, helicopters, and trained searchers, local and state police, as well as state fish and game officials, covered nearly 20 miles along Route 112, but found no trace of Murray's footprints in the snow. The tracking dogs lost her scent within 100 feet of the accident, leading investigators and her loved ones to believe she either hitched a ride and continued on her way, or was abducted. I am confused what it is you are telling me. I am aware of all the information that you have apparently cut from websites and notoriously inaccurate newspaper columns. What I was asking was if you are aware of any scientific study that documents dogs being able to track people traveling in cars and finding them, and how that is accomplished. Bill
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Joey
Chicago, IL
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Maybe the swamp monster ate her?
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hannah_b
Sweden
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Joey wrote: Maybe the swamp monster ate her? As likely as anything else.
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Since: Feb 12
Location hidden
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I remember Snowy and I? Wowzer, maybe? discussing the similarities in the missing Jessica Ronhock case (nursing student, went missing, said there was a family emergency, when there wasn't, etc). Tragically, she's been found dead - her car was located, perhaps driven off the side of the road down an embankment? Perhaps suicide. Snipped from article: Ronhock was last seen at school in Upstate New York, where she was a nursing student at Elmira College. She left a note for her roommate saying she was returning home for a "family emergency." There was no emergency, and Jessica never returned home.
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“snapshots, you/by ur vehicle”
Since: Feb 12
Location hidden
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Perhaps the rag scenerio went something like this: (and said at some point back in MA) Maura, this here rag should be placed in your exhaust pipe as far up as you can put it. It'll keep the car from smoking when and if it stalls. Your car is running on three cylinders~ so do this with the rag, start and run the car for awhile, retreive the rag because it will blow out and put it back in this here kit I'm giving you.....(you might be able to drive another 5 or so miles)......and Maura is remembering this when she winds the corner, failed engine apparent at this point. First, she cannot help but try and stop herself, her car, with the snowbank to the left as a buffer. After the big swing around, the accelleration then thud, and ending up at or near those trees, she gets out and goes for the rag. Puts in in just as was illistrated to her, backs up and is parellel with the road now, it's no use. It's too soon to try and start the car again and she is running out of time now that SBD has come and gone. She leaves it there but grabs what she can from the trunk. AND/OR: (Then, Monday Feb 9,~ around 7:39pm) .......Meanwhile, an officer is en route to a call on 112, and he gets a call from dispatch or maybe hears something to this effect over the same or additional scanner: We just received a call from xoxox, At approx 18:10pm,(7:05pm), a lone female has slid off the road and left in a private vehicle. We have "xyz" saying that they witnessed someone bent down at the car just prior to that. Sounds suspicious.....BOL for a man with a brown Carhartt jacket, etc, etc, driving a red truck, plates not visable, make, model, year, unknown and put out a BOL for lone female, make, model, lic plate -----appears to be alone, approx 20 years old, 5'7", shoulder lenghth hair, sending back up for H2 ..........
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Since: Nov 08
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Simply Sarcasm wrote: I remember Snowy and I? Wowzer, maybe? discussing the similarities in the missing Jessica Ronhock case (nursing student, went missing, said there was a family emergency, when there wasn't, etc).
Tragically, she's been found dead - her car was located, perhaps driven off the side of the road down an embankment? Perhaps suicide.
Snipped from article:
Ronhock was last seen at school in Upstate New York, where she was a nursing student at Elmira College. She left a note for her roommate saying she was returning home for a "family emergency." There was no emergency, and Jessica never returned home. Sounds like they have their answer. Very sad. "To all of Jessie's friends and supporters, it is with much grief and heavy hearts that we inform you that Jessica Lynn Ronhock was involved in a fatal car crash on Rt. 17 between Phoenix and Flagstaff Arizona. Jessie was driving on a treacherous segment of Rt. 17 when she lost control of her Jeep and went off of the road. The accident is estimated to have happened sometime in mid January however, because of the remoteness of the area it wasn't until now that she was found in her Jeep at the bottom of a 200ft ravine by some elk hunters. Jessie appeared to be headed home. Rest in Peace Jessie. 1990-2012." Bill
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“snapshots, you/by ur vehicle”
Since: Feb 12
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oops, got the military time wrong and I forgot now how to translate those times I tried to above. I must have the only job with a timclock that says 20:50 for example, when I punch out at 8:30pm. My mistake. Sorry to but in with this now.....was sewing and sent it and hour after I wrote my post.
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“snapshots, you/by ur vehicle”
Since: Feb 12
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I take it somebody didn't like my line of thinking. I wish you'd just say something like it doesn't go like that, or read up on it. I was just trying for Pete's sake, and once again, I don't get feedback, just dumb stickers. Here's an independants list to a study on bloodhounds. Might not pertain......and go ahead and throws sticks, my grandkids just love em, lol. http://leerburg.com/bloodhound.htm OR: Last week some hunters found Rita Chretien, a Canadian woman who had been missing for seven weeks in Nevada after taking a remote road while traveling. Her husband Albert, 59 is still missing when he left their van on a mission to search for help. He stayed with Rita for three days while being stuck in the mud off a forest road on March 19. When this couple first went missing, we offered our services to the RCMP's and they refused our help. "Search dogs can track people's scent escaping from the vehicle as they travel down the road. We could have determined which direction they did in fact travel. This could have saved this family from 7 weeks of hell. And Albert is still missing. There's no excuse for not using professional K9 Sar teams to work this kind of search. When families depend on GPS's to navigate areas unknown to them, the Sheriff's office should have determined by using the same type of GPS system where the GPS would lead this couple to. The GPS will pick the shortest route to their destination. Then they could have determined which routes were probable and flew that route. The same thing happened to the Kim family in S. Oregon a few years ago. You would think they would learn from others misfortune. Ever hear of the stories about a family moving from Seattle to LA, Ca. and they leave behind their dog or cat and a year later the cat or dog shows up on their door step? Like I said, when you drive down the road you are leaving scent that can be tracked. That's how pets do it. That's how search dogs trained in vehicle tracking can do it. http://www.k9sardog.com/current_events.html
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Shack
Groton, MA
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I am probably one of the few that doesn't find the rag of any interest..however, the comment made by CS to FW "something they do in Massachusetts" was a head scratcher to me. There has been much discussion about the pink/red liquid found interior of car. CS accident report claims "box of Franzia in plain view on back seat"..I question how the spigot could have sprayed the interior,,,and box stayed on seat.... I still want to find out what happened to Maura.
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hannah_b
Sweden
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Shack wrote: I am probably one of the few that doesn't find the rag of any interest..however, the comment made by CS to FW "something they do in Massachusetts" was a head scratcher to me.
There has been much discussion about the pink/red liquid found interior of car. CS accident report claims "box of Franzia in plain view on back seat"..I question how the spigot could have sprayed the interior,,,and box stayed on seat....
I still want to find out what happened to Maura. Didn´t we just a few pages ago come to the conclusion the stains on the interior of the car likely came from the coke bottle.
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paris
Minneapolis, MN
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Shack wrote: I am probably one of the few that doesn't find the rag of any interest..however, the comment made by CS to FW "something they do in Massachusetts" was a head scratcher to me.
There has been much discussion about the pink/red liquid found interior of car. CS accident report claims "box of Franzia in plain view on back seat"..I question how the spigot could have sprayed the interior,,,and box stayed on seat....
I still want to find out what happened to Maura. Maybe the box was on the frontseat and after the bags went down, Maura, in a rush, swung it around to the seat behing her. As for the statement. I can see the officer saying this after he spoke w/Fred about how he told her to do this. Saying it's something people from Massachusetts do may have been based on Fred's statement, or what the officer walked away with from talking to Fred?
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paris
Minneapolis, MN
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hannah_b wrote: <quoted text>
Didn´t we just a few pages ago come to the conclusion the stains on the interior of the car likely came from the coke bottle. Yes, but the box was busted they said, or crushed. Crushed from the impact of aibags might not be possible though, unless maybe the wine was heavy enough along with the groceries to set off the passenger side sensors for the airbag to go off. And yes, the coke bottle that was thrown under the vehicle did have some wine mixed in with it too.
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paris
Minneapolis, MN
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Judged:
3
2
This might be noteworthy. Anne, was it you who said Fred chose the glove, I don't recall. Also, I thought there were running shoes in the trunk, if so, why not take one of them, or the pajamas if they were not washed, heck, even if they were.....? :::::::::: Scent identification through US Mail and land delivery International K9 Search and Rescue Services has been identifying suspects for criminal and civil cases through scent evidence found at crime scenes for the last 26 years. Example: A police officer finds a suspect vehicle believed to have been used in the kidnapping and transporting of a missing adult or child. The police officer while wearing rubber first aid gloves, rubs a sterile 4x4 gauze pad over the suspected contact area,(trunk of car). He / she, then places the item in a clean paper envelope. Then he/she places that paper sack or envelope inside a clean plastic bag and seals it up. He/she then places that sealed plastic bag inside another plastic bag seals that up. He / she initials the bag and places the date and time the items were sealed up inside. He/she then mails the item(s) to our office. Next he/she collects an uncontaminated scent article belonging to the missing person(s). Again the same procedure is used. He/she collects the item such as a used pillowcase or tennis shoe not washed, and places it inside a paper bag and seals it shut. Then places that item inside two clean plastic bags and mails that item separately. Remember when you go to the victim(s) residence and collect the scent item make sure YOU Collect the item yourself. Do NOT ask the family to hand you the item. No one is to touch it. It’s best if you don’t touch it either. How to properly collect a scent evidence sample or scent item. While wearing clean rubber gloves, turn the paper sack inside out, collect the scent item. Next place the item in the plastic bag(s) as directed. Then change rubber gloves. Remove the old and put on uncontaminated rubber gloves and collect the scent evidence SAMPLE(S). Follow our guidelines on collecting and sending those items. When we receive the items (the scent in question and the scent article) we'll perform a scent identification search with two qualified search dogs and send you a report on our findings. Cost is $250.00 for each examination. This includes collection of sample and scent evidence. Photographing and documenting items. Conducting the scent evidence search. Writing report and sending items back to client. The general public can also send us their pet’s scent item (fir/hair collected from home) this will be considered the (Scent item). Then they can send us the sample fir/hair found at a scene in the area. We can then through scent evidence tell the client if the search dog indicates this is in fact their pet(s) scent or it isn’t. And if it’s alive, stress, or death alert. For more information on this procedure feel free to order Mr. Oakes book available on CD Format Search and Rescue By Harry Oakes. We've also used the same procedures to identify fir/pet hair by pet owners at a specific scene.
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paris
Minneapolis, MN
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Judged:
1
Oops. The post above is not the best, I'd have to agree because they're talking about how to collect evidence FROM a suspected vehicle. Then again, let's say Maura was the suspect and they used one of her running shoes or pieces of clothing. I do wonder why they would chose a glove over mre used and scented items left behind? Who influenced or decided upon the glove?
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paris
Minneapolis, MN
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Just one more thing....pc is acting up. That wine. People seem to think if they put an open bottle in the backseat, they will not get the tougher charges, if they can't reach it. Same goes for keys. Friend of mine threw keys to the back and above seats part of her car. Tried to say she wasn't planning to drive, rather just getting something from her car with a beer in her hand. Guess what happened anyway? Yup.
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Dating
