Maura Murray

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whiston wrote:

Hi all. diesel fumes from 2 school buses over who knows how many years being stoppped and backed into the driveway WOULD hinder a search dog.I have seen many articles about this very problem where the dog handler asks that all vehicles be turned off when the search dogs arrive to start the search.I am asssuming the buses at the Atwood residence were diesel.take care philip

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whiston wrote:

Hi all. diesel fumes from 2 school buses over who knows how many years being stoppped and backed into the driveway WOULD hinder a search dog.I have seen many articles about this very problem where the dog handler asks that all vehicles be turned off when the search dogs arrive to start the search.I am asssuming the buses at the Atwood residence were diesel.take care philip

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WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Again, I have seen and read articles saying it will, and other saying it won't. I don't know. I will keep diesel engines out of the area or turned off if I think I will be calling in dogs but the handlers say it doesn't matter, but those same handlers then ask that the engine not be in the area. Go figure.
The articles on the subject I have read have stated that the problem is it saturates their olfactory senses making it impossible for them to follow the scent. Again, I don't know. I am only reporting the contradictory responses that I hear in the dog community itself.
Bill

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Jenkins wrote:

Oh yes and "postholing" through 1' of snow isn't called post holing, it's called walking through snow that isn't deep.

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Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
& exactly what time of year was this?
Sounds to me like late march or early april judging by the lack of snow one the ground and the fact that people r hiking the mountain.
Nobody hikes mountains in February in Nh, well nobody except the most hardy winter mountaineers.
Also your talking about daytime, nice weather with clearly at least a few groups of people.
Completely different than a 21yr old girl alone in the Dark of night in feb in Nh, the comparison your making here is absurd.
Go to mt Washington at the beginning of April and u see the same thing. Only thing is 99% of the trail is trampled down into a relatively hard surface and it really doesn't matter what shoes u r wearing.
Nothing at all like trailblazing your own new trail, through2' of snow in the middle of the woods all by yourself in the beginning of febraury.
If u think those same guys u saw climbing mt Adams in spring when there's clearly groups of people climbing the mt wouldn't turn back if they were all by themselves and it was 8-9 at night im february, your sorely mistaken.
Nobody's saying that u can't walk through snow with the wrong shoes, u clearly can.
But what's the likelihood a 21 yr old girl, wearing tiny sneakers, through 2' of snow, at 9pm in February is gonna keep going far into the woods?
None unless she was suicidal.
Bill you must think she was suicidal right?
What your describing is clearly a suicide mission to anyone kno knows anything about hiking in the north country. & I suspect Maura knew at least that much, she was an avid reader of not without peril, which in reality is more about NOT dying than dying.

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Jenkins wrote:

This is hilarIous bill, you said in your previous post the snow was a foot deep.
That's hardly post holing. I guess u could technically say that but an experienced outdoor person would call that walking through the snow.
How is 1' of snow going to hurt your knees?
It would barely hurt your shins as 1' snow u don't even sink deeper than like 6" bc the snow compacts.
Maura was about 120lbs, more than enough the break through any crust.
When I was 10 and weighed 80lbs there was no crust that could support me.
The only snow that's crusty enough to walk on without breaking through is snow that isn't deep, like 8"-10" absolute max. & that's the kind of snow u would find in the spring, not February.
So you honestly think Maura couldve postholed miles into the woods? Come on
You don't actually believe what your trying to say right?
I'm sorry but anyone who actually knows Nh in the winter would Agee with me, there is absolutely no way she made it anywhere deep into those woods.
That eliminates the need for a giant wilderness search.
She is not going to be found in those woods

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Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
I def wouldn't say it's confirmed she was wearing flats, it appears that she was but I also recall people on the orig mm forum saying that she was wearing those sneakers that look like hiking boots, but they're low and def not boots at all.
Either way we know she wasn't prepared for being in the woods during the winter in Nh. Theresa absolutely no way she was planning on going deep into the woods to drink herself to death, that's just ridiculous. What's she gonna do just go trouncing through 2' of snow in her sneakers and jeans with no gloves & climb to the top of a mountain? There's no trails open to the tops of mountains in Nh in winter, well nothing even approaching easy to climb. It's serious life or death, climb at yur own risk type shit. U would need serious gear to make it up a mountain in feb. What would be the fun of drinking yourself to death on top of a mountain, if u can't make it to the top Of the mountain? Remember this is a girl who brought beers to celebrate at the top of mt Mansfield(i think it was mansfield) Great mountain to hike but certainly not difficult by any means..If she thought this was an accomplishment worthy of celebration she clearly wasn't an expert mountaineer by any means. Not to put her down at all I hike the same mountains she did and consider it an achievement every time, but I'm also not an expert who can climb mountains in the dead of winter or have any interest in doing anything that difficult.
The fact is that she couldn't have made it far into those woods. Those shoes and jeans & no gloves, no way. There's so many spots along 112 u can't even enter the woods, like across the river. Can't cross it. No way in hell. In summer it's a big stream, in winter that thing is a raging river that's half really weak, clear kind of ice, and the other half water. Anyone trying to cross this in winter is going to die. To get down to the river there's about a 15-20' incline that's so steep it's ridiculous. No way ur just walking down it.

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Jenkins wrote:

This is hilarIous bill, you said in your previous post the snow was a foot deep.
That's hardly post holing. I guess u could technically say that but an experienced outdoor person would call that walking through the snow.
How is 1' of snow going to hurt your knees?
It would barely hurt your shins as 1' snow u don't even sink deeper than like 6" bc the snow compacts.
Maura was about 120lbs, more than enough the break through any crust.
When I was 10 and weighed 80lbs there was no crust that could support me.
The only snow that's crusty enough to walk on without breaking through is snow that isn't deep, like 8"-10" absolute max. & that's the kind of snow u would find in the spring, not February.
So you honestly think Maura couldve postholed miles into the woods? Come on
You don't actually believe what your trying to say right?
I'm sorry but anyone who actually knows Nh in the winter would Agee with me, there is absolutely no way she made it anywhere deep into those woods.
That eliminates the need for a giant wilderness search.
She is not going to be found in those woods

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WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
I love it. The more you speak, it shows the less you know.
By definition, what they were doing is called postholing.
Web definitions:
Hiking through deep snow that is not frozen solidly enough to support your weight and allows your leg to drive through the crust as if you’ve stepped into a hole, doing really nasty things to your knees and shins.
www.adventurematters.com/infoglossary.htm
And Maura may have been light enough and the crust heavy enough that she wouldn't have broken through at all. But, please, continue to post. It does nothing but support my case.
We already have you agreeing that her shoes didn't determine if she walked off into the woods.
I am tied up right now, so I can't continue watching you agree with my statements. I'll try to come back after work if possible.
Like I said, it has been a fascinating study so far.
Bill

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citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>Sorry Jenkins but I have to disagree with you. I weigh 130 and when walking on crust snow I never left any footprints and never broke through the snow in specific areas. If anything ever happened to me in these areas there were no visible tracks left behind by me to let others know I was in these areas. I kept sliding and ended up deeper into the woods than I wanted to go. Thank God I was not alone because we helped one another.

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Jenkins wrote:

Ok first of all the river in the summer is completely different than in the winter.
In summer it's little more than a brook, in winter it's a raging river that cannot b crossed easily.
Not saying there isn't a spot u can cross but I sure haven't seen one. I looked and looked back in 04 and crossing that river between feb and April is a suicide mission.
Since your from Lincoln maybe u could tell me where u would b able tocross it in winter, remember that ice on rivers like this does not freeze solid enough to walk on.
Funny that u say u drive 112 every day but you didnt know 112 crossed kinsman notch, how's that possible? I drove it 1-2 times a week about 5-6 years ago & I remember that.
If u really drive that road every day how could u possibly have thought I was talking about Franconia notch?