Maura Murray

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Lincolnite wrote:

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The local weather on tv refers at times to snow, freezing rain and so forth north or south of the "Notch" also known as the Franconia Notch.. When the Notch is mentioned among anyone up here it is not Kinsmans Notch that comes to mind. It is Franconia Notch also know as "The Notch".
That part of 112 that goes through Kinsmans Notch is known as Lost River and Lost River Mountain. When there's an accident on that stretch of road the police aren't sent to Kinsmans Notch, they are sent to 112 Lost River.
If you ever get lost in the 112 area don't call for help and say that you're in the notch because they will be looking for you in Franconia.
I really don't like arguing with someone from out of state that thinks they know the area but I must say again that you are wrong on what you are saying.
The river is not a raging river in the winter and impossible to cross except for those exceptions that I posted previously.
You can cross by the first few camps on the right that have made a picnic area across the road on the river, you can cross by the gun club, theres a nice place a little further where you can drive in (if its not plowed in) and the river is very easy to walk across. While there are some banks Jenkins there are many flat places where it's very easy just to walk across the river. There is not a lot of water in the river in the winter.
Where were you looking when it looked like a suicide mission to cross?

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Jenkins wrote:

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Citi I'm not doubting what your saying but I went over this.
U didn't arrive until march 16th, most of the snow had melted by then and was under a foot.
Snow that's under a foot, has been compresse by the snowpack and now frozen solid can be walked on.
Completely different than February when there's 2' of snow on the ground.
Do u think Maura could've walked deep into the woods that night throug all that snow?
Do u think she would've?
Do u think she was suicidal?

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Jenkins wrote:

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Ok first of all I've lived in Nh for 13 years so idl what your talking about when u say arguing with someone out of state.
Yes if someone just says "the notch" they're referring to Franconia notch but I clearly want talking about that in that post.
I was talking about driving up 112, & then I said "once u get up into the notch"
I don't see how anybody from the area, that drives this road every day wouldn't know what I'm talking about. That post was written with the assumption that everyone knows the area well. Anyone who knows te area well should know exactly what I'm talking about when I'm talking about going up the hill on 112 & getting up into the notch. That's a common term on all the notches. Seems odd that someone who's claiming to b a local wouldnt know that, not saying u aren't a local but I do question if u know the area as well as your saying.
& what winter r u talking about; this winter? This winter there's wasnt shit for snow so u may be able to cross it in a few places. This winter is
Not a representation of what maira would have been facing in 04.
I'm talking about the winters of 04-07, those were the winters where I had to drive it 1-2 times a week to go up vt for work.
During those years when there was a lot of snowfall it would be a suicide mission to cross it, no question. 09 it definitely was a suicide mission no question, I drove it a lot that yr as well.
I was there in 04 right after she disappeared, I looked for places that she could cross the river and there wasn't very many u can easily find during the day, forget about it at night. The river was raging and there was no solid ice anywhere I could see. This year there could be a few spots, I'm not sure about that bc I haven't been on that road this winter at all.
I never said there was nowhere u could cross the river, I said I'm sure u can cross it in a few spots, but that's If u know where they r.
Maura was from mass and didn't know this stretch of 112, do u think she would know she could cross it at the gun club?
Wait a minute, isn't the gun club west of the accident scene?
R u really trying to say that at night in February, all alone, Maura could've or wouldve tried crossing that river?
You mist think she was suicidal right?
If your trying to escape and survive, crossing that river would b the stupidest thing u could ever do.
To believe she crossed that river is to believe she was suicidal, or extremely stupid

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Jenkins wrote:

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Your hardly provin anything here bill, think it all u want but our certainly not convincing anyone of anything.
That may n the Internet definition but u do not use the term postholing in a foot of snow, generally it's cristy snow over like 2'
Go out with some experienced outdoors people and use that term in a foot of snow, you'd get laughed off the mountain as an amateur, which you clearly r in respect to winter mountaineering.

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Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>If your trying to escape and survive, crossing that river would b the stupidest thing u could ever do.
To believe she crossed that river is to believe she was suicidal, or extremely stupid

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citigirl wrote:

<quoted text> The gun club is east from the accident scene.

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citigirl wrote:

<quoted text> The gun club is east from the accident scene.

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WTH-the-original wrote:

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The definition for post-holing is very simple. If your foot breaks through the crust and the snow underneath covers your foot, technically that is a post-hole.
So those young people walking on the crust, in foot deep snow, breaking through the crust with every other footstep, was, is and for people "in the know" are post-holing. You don't need to break through up to your crotch, as I have had happen, for it to be considered post-holing.
And with respect to winter camping, hiking and mountaineering, I have no worries that my credentials far exceeds most. It actually exceeds most of the pretend credentials I often hear listed. So fortunately for me, I rarely ever hear laughing, at least, not when I am talking. It's more like an E.F. Hutton thing when I talk. But usually I am giving lectures or classes to people with some background so they know what I am talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Bill

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WTH-the-original wrote:

Just to clarify some erroneous information put out by someone else.
I use to travel from CT to the Whites on Friday night after work, quite frequently to camp on weekends, all year round. I usually would arrive at the trail-head and start my hikes anywhere from 10PM till around midnight. Hike/snowshoe/ski anywhere from 2 to 4 hours and set up camp in the dark. This is not uncommon.
I won't go into all the patrols I did at night, all night, in snow up to my ass. Those probably don't count.
Bill

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Jenkins wrote:

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Actually bill that's extremely uncommon, I've known literally hundreds of outdoor enthusiasts and I don't kno one who ever went out at 10pm to set up camp.
Maybe bc you've done so many patrols in snow up to your ass u don't do things regular people do.
In summer it's extremely uncommon to start that late, in Nh it's almost unheard of.
What mountain or area was this at?
Where did u park your car?
Most spots in the whites your not even allowed to park over night and if your car is left at the trailhead in winter the rangers assume someone is lost in the woods.
Thats why they say to leave a note on your car saying where u were going, when your expected to be back, etc.
Nite hiking is not something most people enjoy or take part in, it's dangerous and u don't get any views. If that's your idea of a good time u certainly are a unique individual.
How many times have u actually done this? Be honest here.. out of all your thousands of posts through the years you've listed off all of your activities and experiences, u do that all the time to show How great of an "expert" you r. But You've Never said that u do this stuff at night all the time, ever. R u sure that u just didnt arrive late once or twice and were forced to set up camp at night?
Saying that most people don't start hikes at 8pm is clearly not erroneous information.
Saying that it is common is one of the most erroneous statements you've ever said.
It's beyond rare for people to set out on a hike at 8pm, then in the winter Its basically unheard of. Not saying it never happens but it is extremely rare, extremely.
Any wilderness expert or guide or anyone like that would say that is absolutely insane.
R u sure your not just making shit up at this point? I don't wanna outright say u r bc I don't know, but it sure looks like it

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Jenkins wrote:

A word to Anyone reading this thread:
I would take anything said by anybody claiming that Maura could've made it over the river with a giant grain of salt.
It might not n physically impossible to do so but that time of year, that time of night, by someone who doesn't know the area it is next to Impossible.
Anybody who says she might've crossed the river either doesn't know, or they are lying.
Either way this is direct proof that they are willing to say anything that fits in with their preconceived notion, whether Its right or wrong.
So that means they will lie to prove a point.
If they're lying about that(or willing to say incorrect info) then how can we trust anything else they say about anything?

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WTH-the-original wrote:

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Again, I don't know where you hang out but I know many people besides myself that camps in the same fashion and arrives late at trail-heads.
Many people that don't live right next to the trail-heads they operate in this fashion.
I do know what the experts, the book experts, say. They talk about not walking at night, and not solo camping, etc. I have done all of these things for years, decades. I even night hike often with no light using just ambient light. That can be done on many mights by just letting your eyes get use to the ambient lighting for 15 or 20 minutes. I have considerable experience in things like this. Maybe there are things you don't know?
Bill

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WTH-the-original wrote:

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I rarely ever hear laughing, at least, not when I am talking. It's more like an E.F. Hutton thing when I talk. But usually I am giving lectures or classes to people with some background so they know what I am talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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Jenkins wrote:

Bill I love how your opinion changes depending on which thread your posting in.
Over in Patrick's thread u go on & on about how difficult the terrain is & how difficult it was for the searchers to reach patric, & u were talking snout a 2 mile hike up whalesback mt in October.
Now in this thread it's not particularly difficult to walk for miles into the woods through 2' of snow in the middle of February.
You can't have it both ways.
Saying that Maura could've made it deep into the woods relatively easy is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say

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Jenkins wrote:

Bill I love how your opinion changes depending on which thread your posting in.
Over in Patrick's thread u go on & on about how difficult the terrain is & how difficult it was for the searchers to reach patric, & u were talking snout a 2 mile hike up whalesback mt in October.
Now in this thread it's not particularly difficult to walk for miles into the woods through 2' of snow in the middle of February.
You can't have it both ways.
Saying that Maura could've made it deep into the woods relatively easy is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say

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Det Columbo wrote:

Yes indeed....Still Ex LE and PI. I have no burden of proof to anyone on this site and I would be crazy to give out that info.
....Occam says I should probably not do that.