Maura Murray

i have this visual of certain folks on their hands and knees pounding the dirt with their fists for 8 years, and yet they're still expecting flowers to grow in that very spot.
any logical, intelligent discussion was tainted long ago.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
If you are running on this road at night and a car comes at you, do you have to then jump into a snowbank to get out of the way? Or is there some space on the side of the road in this stretch from the WB heading east? It's not so easy to tell from a videos.
I am trying to picture what it would be like to run on this road at night.
Do you happen to know if there was a flashlight in Maura's emergency kit that she might have taken with her?

There are varying areas Amy, as I mentioned before there is little to no shoulder on either side of the road. On one side (going east against traffic) you have the river and there are a few areas that are flat on that side, but you also have a long stretch of guardrail with a steep drop.

The other side of the road would be easier to avoid on coming traffic by going up driveways etc..

As you get several miles away from the crash site, both sides of the roadway become flatter but still little shoulder.

There is generally little traffic and when I mean little I am saying that you may see a half doz cars in a half hour go by. Cars tend to drive very fast on that road as it is .

so to answer your question, you would have to either jump a snowbank to avoid a car , go up a driveway or hug the side and hope you don't get hit. She would not necessarily be directly on the road if she were walking or running down the side but there is very little room.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
If you are running on this road at night and a car comes at you, do you have to then jump into a snowbank to get out of the way? Or is there some space on the side of the road in this stretch from the WB heading east? It's not so easy to tell from a videos.
I am trying to picture what it would be like to run on this road at night.
Do you happen to know if there was a flashlight in Maura's emergency kit that she might have taken with her?

The terrain is difficult in this area. And more so at night. I dont know if she had a flash light but if she did because of the area my personnal opinion is it would not be helpful. This area is pitch black with no street lights.Its a very rural area. There are a couple of houses on this stretch and the gun club.

jwb wrote:

<quoted text> .... There is generally little traffic and when I mean little I am saying that you may see a half doz cars in a half hour go by. Cars tend to drive very fast on that road as it is .
so to answer your question, you would have to either jump a snowbank to avoid a car , go up a driveway or hug the side and hope you don't get hit. She would not necessarily be directly on the road if she were walking or running down the side but there is very little room.

Although, just to add a thought, you'd know a car was coming from a good distance off because of its headlights. Probably time enough to jump off the road before it got near, yes?

Advocate wrote:

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Although, just to add a thought, you'd know a car was coming from a good distance off because of its headlights. Probably time enough to jump off the road before it got near, yes?

yes, absolutely right- it is so dark and the lights reflect off of the snow and through the tree branches etc..

There are a couple of blind turns but mostly staright

straight -sorry

Thanks guys. That is helpful.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>The terrain is difficult in this area. And more so at night. I dont know if she had a flash light but if she did because of the area my personnal opinion is it would not be helpful. This area is pitch black with no street lights.Its a very rural area. There are a couple of houses on this stretch and the gun club.

Citigirl, Fred seemed to know what was in her emergency road kit(rag)and it was mentioned on this forum that he had put the it together for her. Do you know if this is the case- that Fred put the kit together for her? If he did, He would know if a flashlight was missing. Do we know if this kit was bought and contained certain items?

Regarding New Hampshire law enforcement, court hearings, and so forth -- I don't think that we should spend too much time splitting hairs over what has been publicly stated by LE or in court. For example, at the hearing in Grafton County Superior Court on 4/13/07, Assistant AG Nancy Smith (speaking on behalf of the state) clearly wasn't very familiar with the specifics of the Murray investigation. We shouldn't hang on every word she says, verbatim, with reference to the Murray case. When the state says that they are treating the case as a criminal investigation, it means that there is a possibility that a crime occurred (which is why records cannot be released)-- but it doesn't mean that LE assumes that a crime actually did occur. They just don't know either way, but they're treating it as a criminal investigation as a worst case scenario.

In other words, it appears that LE has lots and lots of witness statements, interviews, polygraphs, and leads of various sorts -- but nothing that compellingly points in one specific direction. They might have one or more persons of interest, should the case turn out to be a homicide, and therefore they're keeping all records under wraps. And I'm sure that they're earnestly keeping tabs on the human remains of every "Jane Doe" that crops up, which would obviously corroborate foul play.

But to be honest, I'm not so sure that LE knows a whole lot more than we do... And in any case, we aren't privy to that information, so we can't spend too much time worrying about what we don't know.

SnowyB wrote:

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so what? the reality is that anyone can hold their own opinions, and life plays out as it will. opinions don't influence outcome.
the silliest part of this is that you join Team A or Team B or Team C, desperately try to manipulate and control the thinking of others....whether by bullying or accusations....
and in the end,
you're no closer to whatever happened to MM.
think about it.

Sorry SnowyB but I did say everyone has there opinions concerning this case. Because ones opinion differs from yours does not mean they have joined any team. Funny how you have put people in teams because there opinions differ from yours.This is a public forum and every one has the right to say what ever they want regardless as to what you me and others think.I believe Maura met up with foul play on the night she disappeared so just because you dont think this does not mean you are correct.Are you bullying me because I dont agree with you.I have not tried to manipulate or control any one as you have done. Only stating what I know about the case and my opinions just like you and every other poster here. Its the choice of the posters as to what they want to believe. Never said I was close to knowing what ever happened to Maura.Although I believe she met up with foul play the night she disapeared. But obviously you have all the answers. Could you please tell us where we can find Maura?

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
Citigirl, Fred seemed to know what was in her emergency road kit(rag)and it was mentioned on this forum that he had put the it together for her. Do you know if this is the case- that Fred put the kit together for her? If he did, He would know if a flashlight was missing. Do we know if this kit was bought and contained certain items?

The question about whether Maura had a flashlight has been raised on Renner's blog, and no one seems to know the answer. Most roadside emergency kits include a flashlight, but if Maura had been using a flashlight, I would think that witnesses would have noticed... There were several nearby residents and several passing vehicles, and surely it would've been alarming to see someone walking around in the snow at night with a flashlight in such a rural area.

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
Citigirl, Fred seemed to know what was in her emergency road kit(rag)and it was mentioned on this forum that he had put the it together for her. Do you know if this is the case- that Fred put the kit together for her? If he did, He would know if a flashlight was missing. Do we know if this kit was bought and contained certain items?

I will ask Fred.

TeeJay wrote:

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The question about whether Maura had a flashlight has been raised on Renner's blog, and no one seems to know the answer. Most roadside emergency kits include a flashlight, but if Maura had been using a flashlight, I would think that witnesses would have noticed... There were several nearby residents and several passing vehicles, and surely it would've been alarming to see someone walking around in the snow at night with a flashlight in such a rural area.

Once she made it past SBD house assuming she was going east there are few houses that are year round. the only witnesses would have been vehicles.There would have been no need to turn on the flashlight until she went by SBD house.

TeeJay wrote:

<quoted text>
The question about whether Maura had a flashlight has been raised on Renner's blog, and no one seems to know the answer. Most roadside emergency kits include a flashlight, but if Maura had been using a flashlight, I would think that witnesses would have noticed... There were several nearby residents and several passing vehicles, and surely it would've been alarming to see someone walking around in the snow at night with a flashlight in such a rural area.

No witness has ever mentioned seeing a flash light.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>I will ask Fred.

Thank you- It may be something else to add to the list to look for off the side of the road- Sneakers-backpack-Clothing- Booze Bottles-flash light? etc..

If she went into the trunk and had expectations to leave a long distance by foot and the flashlight was still there then that leads me to think she may have met up with someone for a ride at the corner of BHR (that she knew).

Jenkins wrote:

What's funny is there is actually some pretty good circumstantial evidence that she ran away to start a new life.
She had expressed the desire to disappear to her bf at UMass(not Billy) & in fact when he first heard she was missing he thought she actually did it.

Jenkins -- I know that many people on this forum disagree with you on this, but I agree with you that there is some good evidence to suggest that Maura ran away of her own volition.

The main reason is, look at what was going on with Maura in the few days before her disappearance: She packed up her dorm room belongings in boxes... On top of the boxes, the left a printed-out e-mail from her boyfriend concerning his infidelity... She wrecked her father's car, causing $10,000 worth of damage... She had a major emotional outburst at work following a phone conversation with her sister... She had been caught committing credit card fraud (possible expulsion from UMass following dismissal from West Point?)... She MIGHT have been involved in a hit-and-run accident involving Petrit Vasi (which is extremely speculative and so I won't go there)... She left the UMass campus without telling anyone close to her, even though they surely would have been looking for her within a day or two... She emptied her bank account... She had at least one more accident... etc.

Sorry, but none of that stuff is normal behavior.

SnowyB wrote:

<quoted text>
so what? the reality is that anyone can hold their own opinions, and life plays out as it will. opinions don't influence outcome.
the silliest part of this is that you join Team A or Team B or Team C, desperately try to manipulate and control the thinking of others....whether by bullying or accusations....
and in the end,
you're no closer to whatever happened to MM.
think about it.

one more time for the reading/comprehension impaired...citi, listen up...read my posts; the words are superbly clear.

"anyone can hold their own opinions:..... "to manipulate and control the thinking of others...whether by bullying or accusations" is counterproductive to your end goal.

people have been bullied on this thread in the name of MM, citi, and it hasn't been you. take it up with Renner if you think he's bullied you elsewhere.

and don't be silly. no one knows what happened to Maura.

SnowyB wrote:

<quoted text>
one more time for the reading/comprehension impaired...citi, listen up...read my posts; the words are superbly clear.
"anyone can hold their own opinions:..... "to manipulate and control the thinking of others...whether by bullying or accusations" is counterproductive to your end goal.
people have been bullied on this thread in the name of MM, citi, and it hasn't been you. take it up with Renner if you think he's bullied you elsewhere.
and don't be silly. no one knows what happened to Maura.

I agree Snowey that man WTH seemed like a big bully and scared me. The former law enforcement person is also mean.

I will agree with Jenkins on one point, I believe that Maura probably had thoughts of running away, just get away from all of her problems.

I did this once when I was 8, got a change of clothes in my backpack, some snacks, got on my bike and rode down the road. It went well til I got a few miles away, realized I was tired and scared and missed my mom. Then I went back home.

My point is that although I agree Maura had visions of running away from her problems, the reality is much more complicated than just getting in your car with some wine and a couple hundred dollars and driving North.

It is much harder than you can imagine, to just disappear and start a new life. How far does $280 go? How can she get into Canada with no Passport? What is she driving? How can she check into a hotel without providing an ID and credit card?

How can she get a job without providing a Social security #? With no job, how does she eat? How does she pay for bus tickets? Where does she live? For 8 years?

Let's say she ran off with a Boyfriend, ok so what does he keep Maura in his basement? Does he keep her secret? She doesn't work, doesn't drive, lives off someone elses money, who keeps her a secret?

Is it believable that this insecure-ish young woman leaves her family, her father and mother, her sister, her friends, just disappears with no warning and in 8 plus years, she never misses them once? Never wonders about the Hell her Father is going through? Surely she googles her name, knows what her Family has gone through, and despite that she never makes contact?

Like I said before, I get the desire to disappear, but wanting to do it and doing it are 2 different things.

Of all possibilities, this is the absolute least likely, in my opinion.