Maura Murray

FrmLE wrote:

I will agree with Jenkins on one point, I believe that Maura probably had thoughts of running away, just get away from all of her problems.
I did this once when I was 8, got a change of clothes in my backpack, some snacks, got on my bike and rode down the road. It went well til I got a few miles away, realized I was tired and scared and missed my mom. Then I went back home.
My point is that although I agree Maura had visions of running away from her problems, the reality is much more complicated than just getting in your car with some wine and a couple hundred dollars and driving North.
It is much harder than you can imagine, to just disappear and start a new life. How far does $280 go? How can she get into Canada with no Passport? What is she driving? How can she check into a hotel without providing an ID and credit card?
How can she get a job without providing a Social security #? With no job, how does she eat? How does she pay for bus tickets? Where does she live? For 8 years?
Let's say she ran off with a Boyfriend, ok so what does he keep Maura in his basement? Does he keep her secret? She doesn't work, doesn't drive, lives off someone elses money, who keeps her a secret?
Is it believable that this insecure-ish young woman leaves her family, her father and mother, her sister, her friends, just disappears with no warning and in 8 plus years, she never misses them once? Never wonders about the Hell her Father is going through? Surely she googles her name, knows what her Family has gone through, and despite that she never makes contact?
Like I said before, I get the desire to disappear, but wanting to do it and doing it are 2 different things.
Of all possibilities, this is the absolute least likely, in my opinion.

You should know that you didn't need a passport to get in canada in 2004.

FrmLE wrote:

I will agree with Jenkins on one point, I believe that Maura probably had thoughts of running away, just get away from all of her problems.
I did this once when I was 8, got a change of clothes in my backpack, some snacks, got on my bike and rode down the road. It went well til I got a few miles away, realized I was tired and scared and missed my mom. Then I went back home.
My point is that although I agree Maura had visions of running away from her problems, the reality is much more complicated than just getting in your car with some wine and a couple hundred dollars and driving North.
It is much harder than you can imagine, to just disappear and start a new life. How far does $280 go? How can she get into Canada with no Passport? What is she driving? How can she check into a hotel without providing an ID and credit card?
How can she get a job without providing a Social security #? With no job, how does she eat? How does she pay for bus tickets? Where does she live? For 8 years?
Let's say she ran off with a Boyfriend, ok so what does he keep Maura in his basement? Does he keep her secret? She doesn't work, doesn't drive, lives off someone elses money, who keeps her a secret?
Is it believable that this insecure-ish young woman leaves her family, her father and mother, her sister, her friends, just disappears with no warning and in 8 plus years, she never misses them once? Never wonders about the Hell her Father is going through? Surely she googles her name, knows what her Family has gone through, and despite that she never makes contact?
Like I said before, I get the desire to disappear, but wanting to do it and doing it are 2 different things.
Of all possibilities, this is the absolute least likely, in my opinion.

i suppose it depends on how motivated she was to run and/or stay hidden from whatever situation she might have perceived to be bad, and run toward to whatever she imagined to be better, if that was the case.
young adults do disappear with intention.

jwb wrote:

<quoted text>
You should know that you didn't need a passport to get in canada in 2004.

You are so silly.

FrmLE wrote:

...It is much harder than you can imagine, to just disappear and start a new life. How far does $280 go? How can she get into Canada with no Passport? What is she driving? How can she check into a hotel without providing an ID and credit card?

For about $80 she could have taken a bus from Lincoln, NH to New York City. For about $140 she could have gone from Lincoln to Pittsburgh. Etc. Motels will take cash, not that she would necessarily have had much after bus fare. She may have stayed in a motel in Lincoln and paid with cash -- we don't know if LE ever checked motels in the area.

FrmLE wrote:

... How can she get a job without providing a Social security #? With no job, how does she eat? How does she pay for bus tickets? Where does she live? For 8 years?

Does LE have a legal way to find out when/where someone is using their Social Security number? If they don't, that answers that question because she could get a job anywhere with her ID and Social Security number. Also, she could stay for free at least a little while in women's shelters, until she got on her feet.

FrmLE wrote:

... Is it believable that this insecure-ish young woman leaves her family, her father and mother, her sister, her friends, just disappears with no warning and in 8 plus years, she never misses them once? Never wonders about the Hell her Father is going through? Surely she googles her name, knows what her Family has gone through, and despite that she never makes contact?

It's possible. People do it. It would depend on what motivated her, and we don't know if there was something going on that was strong enough to motivate her. I have a cousin who was as close as a brother to me growing up -- he did one thing I had asked him not to do, and I didn't speak to him for 30 years. Not a Christmas card, not a call, nothing.

FrmLE wrote:

I did this once when I was 8, got a change of clothes in my backpack, some snacks, got on my bike and rode down the road. It went well til I got a few miles away, realized I was tired and scared and missed my mom. Then I went back home.

Your sarcasm is childish and unnecessary... I find it extremely difficult to believe that you formerly worked in law enforcement.

In any case, you might be seriously motivated to run away forever if you were always a star student-athlete but then suddenly you're expelled from West Point, commit credit card fraud, might face expulsion from UMass and further unknown legal troubles, you nearly totaled your dad's car in a likely DUI accident, your boyfriend cheated on you, you possibly hit-and-run a student at school who is in a coma (speculative), you have strained family relationships... Trust me, when stress gets REALLY bad, people do run away -- especially when they're 21 and haven't yet learned how to cope or how to take things in stride. And when it comes to practical matters of money and ID, Maura was nobody's fool -- she was extremely bright and she had stolen a credit card number. And while that's maybe not such a huge deal, it gives more weight to the possibility of identity theft.

FrmLE I don't understand why you think I would be so difficult to not be seen, especially if she had a guy helping her out. Its very likely the guy himself might not even know she's missing, he might just think he's got a hot chick living with him.
Why the hell would she have to hide in the basement? Do u think every person in tw state of Nh is looking for her or something?
What percentage of the state has ever even heard of her?
Based on the amount of people I've asked about this, & the fact that not one person I asked ever even heard of it, I'd venture to say 10% or less of the state has heard of her. Let's say 10%, out of that 10% how many people really know what she looks like? She is wicked cute but kind of has a generic looking face, certainly not unique.
Out of those people how many think about this on a daily basis and keep an eye out for her? Out of those people how many people would expect her to be living next door?
What If she dyed her hair blonde?
See what I'm getting at?
The chances of her being spotted, even if she's livin in Nh are slim to none, now imaging if she's in ny, or Pittsburgh, or San Francisco?
If you think about it it's way more likely to find her in the wilderness than actually spot her if she's alive. At least then searchers have a general idea of where to look.
You don't need a cc to get a hotel, u don't need a social security # to get many many jobs, as long as she isn't working in a professional field.

She spent new year 04 in Goshen,Nh. Who's to say she didn't meet a guy that night? Maybe they really liked each other & that's who she was going to meet, & just never left. Cute girl like that could easily find a guy who would be willing so support her. If he's the kinda guy that never watches local news he probably never would know she's missing.

The fact of the matter I that you don't need a new identity to no be found, you just need to not use your real name where it would ever be entered into a computer.
Even still, is LE regularly checking her ss#? how often do you think they do that? Hb they checked every single bank, etc? There is someone who gave a tip to renner, she works at citizens bank. She claims that there Is an open, active acct under the name Maura Murray with the dames act dob.
Seems like she was pretty angry with her family. I get the sense that her dad was way more mean to her after the Hadley accident than he let's on & this was the final straw. People that are pisses at their family do strange things sometimes & there's a lot of people who don't talk to their family for 8 yrs. For all we know she googles her name and laughs about the whole thing bc the family got what they deserve(in her eyes)

Other thing is it turns out LE actually searched 20 miles of 112 for prints leading into the woods, that means your range of 6-10 miles was well within the search area.
Going by everything we know about her it just seems way more likely she ran away than committed suicide
The only reason she would enter those woods would b's to kill herself.
Seems like your making way too many assumptions about how difficult it is to disappear & how easy it is to find someone who has dissapeared.
I love this logic: she's lost in the woods, it's next to impossible to find her; she ran away it's almost impossible not to find her. Do you not see the flaws in that logic?

Granny M wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree Snowey that man WTH seemed like a big bully and scared me. The former law enforcement person is also mean.

Ohhhh poor lil thing. I hope the big bad man didn't make you wet your granny bloomers. What a drama queen.

As far as I know you didn't need a passport to enter Canada until 2009.

Besides who's to say she didn't have a passport? Did the nhsp check records of people travellin to Canada?

Do the regularly do this to make sure she didn't travel there a year later?

GrampaMo wrote:

<quoted text>
Ohhhh poor lil thing. I hope the big bad man didn't make you wet your granny bloomers. What a drama queen.

Oh come on gramps, that was extremely rude of WTH to jump on her first post ever.
He basically told her it was stupid and to leave, all the while he's been posting here for years, probably has made thousands of posts in all those years.
If its so stupid, everybody is just "windmilling" & people should move on, maybe he should move on?
Maybe she was a little too thin-skinned about it but that's just ridiculous to pretty much tell someone to leave after making one post

Phoebe Prince wrote:

<quoted text>
Buddy Potter and Jamie Curd are your friends? Don't be modest now. I bet they admire you more than you'll admit. And to think everyone's so close.

Ummm, who the hell is buddy potter and Jamie curd?? Seriously, who the he'll are these people and why would I be friends with them or why would they admire me? They don't even know me & I certainly don't know them.

What are you talking about? I'm cinfised

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh come on gramps, that was extremely rude of WTH to jump on her first post ever.
He basically told her it was stupid and to leave, all the while he's been posting here for years, probably has made thousands of posts in all those years.
If its so stupid, everybody is just "windmilling" & people should move on, maybe he should move on?
Maybe she was a little too thin-skinned about it but that's just ridiculous to pretty much tell someone to leave after making one post

Again. She is a drama queen, or king. That post was post #23 on this forum, on page one. Look it up. It was in response to no one in particular and certainly not little granny m. You have to ask yourself who she is. Certainly not a real poster, I'll bet. Funny that someone in cyberspace is afraid of some words that they don't understand and weren't aimed at them, hey Jenkins?

Bill

SnowyB wrote:

<quoted text>
one more time for the reading/comprehension impaired...citi, listen up...read my posts; the words are superbly clear.
"anyone can hold their own opinions:..... "to manipulate and control the thinking of others...whether by bullying or accusations" is counterproductive to your end goal.
people have been bullied on this thread in the name of MM, citi, and it hasn't been you. take it up with Renner if you think he's bullied you elsewhere.
and don't be silly. no one knows what happened to Maura.

I find that some of your statements are rude and ignorant. Did it ever occur to you that when you quote a poster as to what they said and with what you believe that you are not explaining youself properly?

On to other business. Her little run down the road at night, if she did that. There is no reason to believe that she needed a flashlight to navigate the road. The people that think that are people who have never been out in the woods at night. I spent the better part of military career out in the woods at night as well as many walks at night going to camp. Once yours eyes adjust, in 10 to 20 minutes except on totally moonless nights, you can see quite well. There was almost a full moon out that night that rose around 8:56 the night of the accident and the clouds and snow would have produces a very diffuse light that could have easily allowed her to run the road. With a full moon that also often means that well before that time there is usually a strong undercast with the reflected light that is incredibly useful to see at night.

Don't believe me, go outside on a night with anything over a half moon and see what you can see on "pitch black" nights after yours eyes adjust.

Bill

Honestly you can see better at night once your eyes adjust to the darkness than you can with a flashlight, unless it's a really really strong flashlight. Especially if there's snow on the ground and a full moon.
Was it a full moon? Either way she def could've seen well enough to run or walk up 112 that night, only question would be why.
Who would possibly choose to run east when it's 17 miles to civilization? Even if she disnt know that when she started she would've past a mileage signs alerting her to the fact that she had a really long way to go.

Makes even less sense, way less sense to say that she would've ran 6 miles up into kinsman notch and them go trouncing into the woods through 2'+ of snow. If she had made it 6-10 moles away from the crash she would've been so happy she didnt get caight while DUI. Who then runs into the woods to kill herself?

I think the only logical explanation is that she caight a ride at the crash site.
She was a beautiful young girl, pretty much any driver on the road would be fine with giving her a ride.
Does everyone realize how easy it is for a pretty young girl to catch a ride? Particularly at night in February.

It was also approx 35 degrees at 7pm

on feb 9, 2004

FrmLE wrote:

I think you all put WAY too much weight on the Dog track. Seriously, ask anyone who has ever tracked with a dog, it is hit or miss. I have made this point countless times before, but it bears repeating.
The dog track was 2 days old, on a paved road in very poor weather conditions. Just because the dog tracked a scent 100 yards does not mean it was Maura at all. It could have been a squirrel or some other random scent the dog thought was interesting.
Understand, the dog doesn't talk. It can't tell the handler it tracked Maura opposed to a yummy squirrel, it is not a very reliable science and to rely on that alone to prove or disprove anything is ridiculous.
It could have been Maura of course, but seriously the dog track is probably the most unreliable factor to rely on to draw any conclusion.
But don't let that affect your theories, especially if it fits into your neat little box Jenkins. I know it is much more fun to make the (percieved) facts fit your pet theory, rather than analyze the facts and try to formulate likely possibilities.
;)

I just had to make a comment about this post.
I agree that everyone puts a little too much weight to the dogs tracking of Maura 100yds, but the dog definitely tracked someone 100yds.

Whoever frmLE is he clearly doesn't know very much about how tracking dogs work.
Saying that the dog could Have been tracking a yummy squirrel or some other smell that interested it is so wrong it's laughable. These dogs are very highly trained. They might be interested in how a squirrel smells but they will not track it, they will not give the handler the signal that it is following a trail.
If tracking dogs followed squirrels you couldn't track with them plain and simple. The handler and dog who was on scene was highly respected in her field. You don't get highly respected if your dog tracks "yummy squirrels"

FrmLE puts on a good front, he uses very official sounding words to make himself sound like LE. I'm not saying he's definitely not LE because I really don't know but when someone makes statements like this you really have to question if he was former LE. We at least know that he never had to use a tracking dog while in LE(even though he says he's been on many searches?)

The first thin any handler will tell you is that a tracking dog will no track a squirrel or any other smell it is interested in. It will only track the smell that wa presented to it by the handler.
The problem comes in with presenting the smell to the dog. The challenge is presenting the correct smell, not someone else's smell. So unless the handler presented a squirrel's smell to the dog, we know it wasn't tracking a squirrel.

That dog definitely was tracking someone for 100yds, the question is: was it Maura?

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
I just had to make a comment about this post.
I agree that everyone puts a little too much weight to the dogs tracking of Maura 100yds, but the dog definitely tracked someone 100yds.
Whoever frmLE is he clearly doesn't know very much about how tracking dogs work.
Saying that the dog could Have been tracking a yummy squirrel or some other smell that interested it is so wrong it's laughable. These dogs are very highly trained. They might be interested in how a squirrel smells but they will not track it, they will not give the handler the signal that it is following a trail.
If tracking dogs followed squirrels you couldn't track with them plain and simple. The handler and dog who was on scene was highly respected in her field. You don't get highly respected if your dog tracks "yummy squirrels"
FrmLE puts on a good front, he uses very official sounding words to make himself sound like LE. I'm not saying he's definitely not LE because I really don't know but when someone makes statements like this you really have to question if he was former LE. We at least know that he never had to use a tracking dog while in LE(even though he says he's been on many searches?)
The first thin any handler will tell you is that a tracking dog will no track a squirrel or any other smell it is interested in. It will only track the smell that wa presented to it by the handler.
The problem comes in with presenting the smell to the dog. The challenge is presenting the correct smell, not someone else's smell. So unless the handler presented a squirrel's smell to the dog, we know it wasn't tracking a squirrel.
That dog definitely was tracking someone for 100yds, the question is: was it Maura?

I have seen dogs on more than one occasion that I have no idea what the hell it was tracking. It looked like it was out on a Sunday stroll. So don't give equal weight to all dogs or handlers.

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Again. She is a drama queen, or king. That post was post #23 on this forum, on page one. Look it up. It was in response to no one in particular and certainly not little granny m. You have to ask yourself who she is. Certainly not a real poster, I'll bet. Funny that someone in cyberspace is afraid of some words that they don't understand and weren't aimed at them, hey Jenkins?
Bill

Maybe I'm just not smart enough but I don't understand what your saying here, so you werent talking to the person you quoted in a "reply to" post? You replied to her post but you were talking to someone else? What the hey Jenkins at the end of the pos mean? Were you talking to me, not her?

Your not tryin to say that you've only posted 23 times on this forum right? What does that post was #23, on page one mean?
Sorry I'm just really confused by yor whole post here, but again maybe I'm just stupid.

It still doesn't change the fact that you straight up told her to leave, what's up with that?
Besides for the fact that What are you doing here still if it's just constant windmilling and everyone is a bunch of idiots?
If you can tell we are a bunch of idiots windmilling then what are you doing wasting your valuable time here?

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
I have seen dogs on more than one occasion that I have no idea what the hell it was tracking. It looked like it was out on a Sunday stroll. So don't give equal weight to all dogs or handlers.
Bill

I agree that u can't give equal weight to all dogs n handlers, but the handler working that day was one of the best in new England. I can't recall her name right now but she is highly respected and often taught other handlers how to do it properly.

When that dog was out on a Sunday stroll had it already found it's scent to track? Had it already alerted the handler that it was following a trail? Are you sure it wasn't looking for the scent, or If it had already found it it hadn't lost it and was trying to locate it again?

I agree that dogs are not foolproof, but one thing that's for sure is they will not follow the scent of a squirrel.
They are specifically trained around this, idk how it works but it does. If dogs got distracted by squirrels they would be completely useless.
Anybody that says it might have been tracking a yummy squirrel and thought it was tracking maira has absolutely no idea how search dogs work, If they did they would never make a statement like that.