Maura Murray

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jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#19487
Apr 22, 2012
 

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WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
I have seen dogs on more than one occasion that I have no idea what the hell it was tracking. It looked like it was out on a Sunday stroll. So don't give equal weight to all dogs or handlers.
Bill
You said you know the handler right? I find it hard to believe that the Scarinza would say the dog tracked her scent 100 yards east if the dog was on a stroll and not tracking the scent given to it. are you saying the handler is not a good handler?

Since: Jan 12

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#19488
Apr 22, 2012
 

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citigirl wrote:
<quoted text>I find that some of your statements are rude and ignorant. Did it ever occur to you that when you quote a poster as to what they said and with what you believe that you are not explaining youself properly?
huh? i was quoting myself. lol
please, let's not continue. we'll just skip ahead. there's always tomorrow.

Since: Jan 12

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#19489
Apr 22, 2012
 

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WTH-the-original wrote:
On to other business. Her little run down the road at night, if she did that. There is no reason to believe that she needed a flashlight to navigate the road. The people that think that are people who have never been out in the woods at night. I spent the better part of military career out in the woods at night as well as many walks at night going to camp. Once yours eyes adjust, in 10 to 20 minutes except on totally moonless nights, you can see quite well. There was almost a full moon out that night that rose around 8:56 the night of the accident and the clouds and snow would have produces a very diffuse light that could have easily allowed her to run the road. With a full moon that also often means that well before that time there is usually a strong undercast with the reflected light that is incredibly useful to see at night.
Don't believe me, go outside on a night with anything over a half moon and see what you can see on "pitch black" nights after yours eyes adjust.
Bill
this has been my experience, as well. no sidewalks, no lights...country living.

Since: Nov 08

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#19490
Apr 22, 2012
 

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Jenkins wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that u can't give equal weight to all dogs n handlers, but the handler working that day was one of the best in new England. I can't recall her name right now but she is highly respected and often taught other handlers how to do it properly.
When that dog was out on a Sunday stroll had it already found it's scent to track? Had it already alerted the handler that it was following a trail? Are you sure it wasn't looking for the scent, or If it had already found it it hadn't lost it and was trying to locate it again?
I agree that dogs are not foolproof, but one thing that's for sure is they will not follow the scent of a squirrel.
They are specifically trained around this, idk how it works but it does. If dogs got distracted by squirrels they would be completely useless.
Anybody that says it might have been tracking a yummy squirrel and thought it was tracking maira has absolutely no idea how search dogs work, If they did they would never make a statement like that.
I knew Nancy and her dog by reputation and had meet her a couple of times on searches. We weren't friends but I knew her. She was excellent and her dog was also. My point is that the handlers and dogs are not infallible and I never heard what Nancy said. Only what people said were the results.

I have been involved with many dogs on tracks. Both exercises and actual searches. I have seen dogs, that should have been on a track and they appeared to not have a clue what they were doing. As evidenced by them not finding a thing and the handler realizing that they dog wasn't tracking a thing. Twice the dogs looked like they were out for a Sunday stroll. What they were tracking was anyone's guess, but it sure as hell wasn't the subject. And both times this was a very early search started very soon after the subject left and hey had excellent resources to operate from. I can only assume that these dogs have performed well before and this was a bad day for them, but those days, they were useless and it didn't take a trained dog handler to see they didn't know crap.

Bill
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#19491
Apr 22, 2012
 

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If The handler recognized the dog was having a bad day then that information would have been relayed to the powers that be but it was not. All indications from LE was that the Dog did indeed track the scent given. i am sure that id=t does happen that a dog isn't able to track or has a bad day but this was not one of them or it would have been expressed that way. Scarinza wouldn't have taken the next step and suggested that she may have entered a vehicle if the tracking had little merit.
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#19492
Apr 22, 2012
 

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so -you are saying the handler is lying or not a very good handler or scarinza is lying ? The fact is scarinza said the dog tracked her scent 100 yards east.If this was not true then I would think the handler would have come forward and set the record straight.

Since: Feb 12

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#19493
Apr 22, 2012
 

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citigirl wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry SnowyB but I did say everyone has there opinions concerning this case. Because ones opinion differs from yours does not mean they have joined any team. Funny how you have put people in teams because there opinions differ from yours.This is a public forum and every one has the right to say what ever they want regardless as to what you me and others think.I believe Maura met up with foul play on the night she disappeared so just because you dont think this does not mean you are correct.Are you bullying me because I dont agree with you.I have not tried to manipulate or control any one as you have done. Only stating what I know about the case and my opinions just like you and every other poster here. Its the choice of the posters as to what they want to believe. Never said I was close to knowing what ever happened to Maura.Although I believe she met up with foul play the night she disapeared. But obviously you have all the answers. Could you please tell us where we can find Maura?
Citigirl: I haven't been on this site for so long. I pretty much came in once the semester started. But the second I was on I realized that their were social groups that kind of formed on this forum. People are social beings so they will tend to associate more with people that they have more in common or share the same views.

Maybe "teams" isn't the proper word but there are groups of people who tend to stay together when sharing their views.

I don't think anyone is out to score points on each other but the views are very drastic. I can't speak for anyone else but when I review this case in my head I can't say that I reach the same outcome constantly. Sometimes I can say "she is in the woods" other days it isn't so easy for me to say.

Since: Feb 12

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#19494
Apr 22, 2012
 

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jwb wrote:
so -you are saying the handler is lying or not a very good handler or scarinza is lying ? The fact is scarinza said the dog tracked her scent 100 yards east.If this was not true then I would think the handler would have come forward and set the record straight.
You make a point here: in the ID SHOW the only two points that Scarinza says is Maura was having personal issues, and the dog tracked her 100 yards.

If she ran down the road and she was running in three foot strides her feet would touch 1760 times for each mile ran on the road. I don't know enough about dog handling to know why if she ran so much why they couldn't find her.

I also see in these "I almost got away with it shows", the dogs have a fresh trail 2 hours old and the dogs still can't find them. So I'm lost.

Since: Nov 08

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#19495
Apr 22, 2012
 

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Lighthouse 101 wrote:
<quoted text>y with it shows", the dogs have a fresh trail 2 hours old and the dogs still can't find them. So I'm lost.
It happens. I have seen it. Even the best dogs and handlers have bad days.

All I know, is I never heard the handlers say what they thought. Not once.

Bill

“snapshots, you/by ur vehicle”

Since: Feb 12

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#19496
Apr 22, 2012
 

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Advocate wrote:
<quoted text>
For about $80 she could have taken a bus from Lincoln, NH to New York City. For about $140 she could have gone from Lincoln to Pittsburgh. Etc. Motels will take cash, not that she would necessarily have had much after bus fare. She may have stayed in a motel in Lincoln and paid with cash -- we don't know if LE ever checked motels in the area.
<quoted text>
Does LE have a legal way to find out when/where someone is using their Social Security number? If they don't, that answers that question because she could get a job anywhere with her ID and Social Security number. Also, she could stay for free at least a little while in women's shelters, until she got on her feet.
<quoted text>
It's possible. People do it. It would depend on what motivated her, and we don't know if there was something going on that was strong enough to motivate her. I have a cousin who was as close as a brother to me growing up -- he did one thing I had asked him not to do, and I didn't speak to him for 30 years. Not a Christmas card, not a call, nothing.
About social security numbers, here's what happened to us down at work:

One of our emplyees wasn't supposed to work,(let alone 50 hour s a week......We were never the wiser. We knew she had seisures and could not put up lights, but nothing else was out of the ordinary. Little did we know she collectd 1,200 plus he 3,000 wages at work. She worked for us for nearly 10 years. Then we got a new book keeper. The book keeper said the social security number was coming up as wrong for this person. And that she needed to bring in her correct number before she would get her forms. She (the employee)just up and quit without notice, and moved to North Dakota. Not a peep for two years.

I imagine she never filed for tax refunds, just used the system for a monthly check and us, for some good wages. Like I said, once this information came to light, she ran far, far away.

So how does this relate to Maura? A rinky dink job where it doesn't

“snapshots, you/by ur vehicle”

Since: Feb 12

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#19497
Apr 22, 2012
 

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...... A rinky dink job where it doesn't matter much. Laws have changed now and each new hire has to be reported online. But back then it was very doable. I'm not thinking Maura is living somewhere else, unless the idea hold true that she was with child, and kept it. In which case she may have more children, a husband or partner who makes enough to let her stay at home.

Just food for thought,

“snapshots, you/by ur vehicle”

Since: Feb 12

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#19498
Apr 22, 2012
 

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Did you notice how Scarinza says none of the sitings of MM have ever panned out? This, while on discovery program, and just after they go ahead and metion the cumberland farms experience.
If I recall this right, Gvemeabrk was told to keep this info out there for Fred. Or per Fred.

I alwats find it odd when I run into these pages where gvemeabrk is taking the wole thing back.
Was it ever true, is it stil true, I JDK.
Advocate

United States

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#19499
Apr 22, 2012
 

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Just me--paris wrote:
...... A rinky dink job where it doesn't matter much. Laws have changed now and each new hire has to be reported online. But back then it was very doable. I'm not thinking Maura is living somewhere else, unless the idea hold true that she was with child, and kept it. In which case she may have more children, a husband or partner who makes enough to let her stay at home.
Just food for thought,
Well, the way I am thinking about it, as far as I know, Maura could be using her actual proper ID and Social Security number, get a job, the job takes out the proper taxes, and she can file her taxes with her true Social Security number ... and how would law enforcement KNOW THAT? She is a mature adult and she was when she disappeared. So far as I know, the IRS is not going to tell her parents whether or not she filed taxes. She is not wanted for a crime, so what right would LE have to search on her Social Security number, even assuming they have a way to do that?

I don't know -- if LE authorities have a right to check on whether a person is using his/her Social Security number and filing taxes, when there is no criminal complaint against that person (such as being a deadbeat on child support, etc.) I would like to know. If they can't do it, then Maura is free to get a job as herself and no one the wiser.
Advocate

United States

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#19500
Apr 22, 2012
 

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Jenkins wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe I'm just not smart enough but I don't understand what your saying here, so you werent talking to the person you quoted in a "reply to" post? You replied to her post but you were talking to someone else? What the hey Jenkins at the end of the pos mean? Were you talking to me, not her?
Your not tryin to say that you've only posted 23 times on this forum right? What does that post was #23, on page one mean?
Sorry I'm just really confused by yor whole post here, but again maybe I'm just stupid.
It still doesn't change the fact that you straight up told her to leave, what's up with that?
Besides for the fact that What are you doing here still if it's just constant windmilling and everyone is a bunch of idiots?
If you can tell we are a bunch of idiots windmilling then what are you doing wasting your valuable time here?
Let me see if I can clarify. WTH made a post way back early in this forum, on the first few pages of it. His post number was #23. Apparently GrannyM began reading from the start of the forum and when she read that post by WTH, she thought it was meant to discourage her as a new person from continuing. If she is a real person, and if she is truly new to Topix, then her confusion may be understandable, she simply misunderstood and thought perhaps that the post by WTH was somehow directed at her. At least, that's how I took the whole thing.
Jenkins

Astoria, NY

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#19501
Apr 22, 2012
 

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Advocate if that is the case then I guess I'm just confused. I didn't know anything about a post on page 23.
I thought when she posted a couple weeks ago that was the first time and bill basically told her to leave after her first post.
I guess I misse something bc I just saw those 2 posts, the one by her and the one with bill telling her to leave.
I guess I shouldn't have said anything If your right here but it is still a dick move for bill to tell anyone to leave. Again, If he feels it's so stupid and everyone is just wasting their time windmilling then why is he wasting his time here?
My whole point is nobody has the right to tell anyone else they should leave, this is a public forum.
Shack

Groton, MA

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#19502
Apr 22, 2012
 

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In the very first Maura Murray Missing Forum run by the Family from November 2004 - October 2006, there were welcoming messages to the new posters.
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#19503
Apr 23, 2012
 
WTH-the-original wrote:
<quoted text>
It happens. I have seen it. Even the best dogs and handlers have bad days.
All I know, is I never heard the handlers say what they thought. Not once.
Bill
let me ask you a question
Who determines if a scent was successfully tracked ? Is it the handler or Le that is with them? That might help
thanks
jwb

Lincoln, NH

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#19504
Apr 23, 2012
 

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Info from national search dog alliance:

"The Land HRD Test demonstrates the ability of the team to locate hidden sources in a wooded area, building, and vehicle within a prescribed time period. This field test will demonstrate the ability of the K-9 to search for and recognize the scent of human remains, to perform a trained indication, and for the handler to correctly read the behavior of their K-9 partner. The handler will be responsible for formulating and articulating their search strategy and providing the evaluator with a description of their K-9’s trained indication. The K-9 should give recognizable change in behavior when it initially detects scent from the source, with the K-9 following up to identify the location of the actual source. This simulates what handlers will encounter on actual searches."

It states here that the handler is tested on reading the behaviors of their K-9 partner. Wth are you saying that the handler just walks the dog and doesn't say anything about his/her findings or am I mis understanding what you are saying?
Jenkins

Astoria, NY

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#19505
Apr 23, 2012
 

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One thing we know for sure is that the dog tracked someone 100yds, not a "yummy squirrel", not some other smell it found interesting.

The relevant question here was whether or not it was Maura. If it's true she never wore those gloves then it could have been someone else's scent it was trailing.
But the dog will only hit on the scent it is presented..unfortunately if Maura never wore those gloves it could have been tracking smith or someone else who had touched the gloves and walked the area.

That's the question: was it really maura's scent on those gloves?

Since: Mar 11

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#19506
Apr 23, 2012
 

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The question is: where is Maura M?

Proving or disproving the dog tracking results won't answer it.

I'm truly baffled.

My instincts say foul play and the police know something but dont have enough to charge.

BUT...

Cant rule out:
Walkaway
Suicide
Accident
Witness prot (i cant rule this out completely very low chance i admit.) I argued no but some interesting signs point to not being able to rule out.

No fbi here is of significance. The local le MUST have some idea or direction.

I hope they're are smart enough to be questioning the suspects in the Jenkins murder.

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