Maura Murray

Citi...yes. My point is what made LE deem poster Kathie's sighting less credible than CW?

Kathie states she may have seen Maura.

CW said he saw a "youngster", couldn't tell if male or female.

Maura had searched and called places in VT, so one would think a VT sighting to be high on the possibility list.

LE issued a press release based on CW sighting...."a new lead"......

IMO something indisputable puts Maura east of the accident site that made CW sighting more credible, coupled with the interest given to Matthew the hunters cloths, tape and hair.

Did James Renner's wife kill herself after his book about Amy Mihaljevic was published?

Is his writing intended to make people kill themselves?

From Washington Post review

http://www.arcamax.com/entertainment/bookrevi...

"I've rarely finished a book with more sharply divided feelings than the ones inspired by James Renner's "The Man From Primrose Lane." This first novel is ambitious and innovative - and often maddening. Some readers will find it a fascinating puzzle; others will throw up their hands. If you like your fiction tidy and predictable, look elsewhere. If you don't mind being challenged, surprised and sometimes confused, take a stroll down Primrose Lane. At the very least, you won't be bored.

"The story starts with the murder of the title character, a recluse who lived alone on Primrose Lane in West Akron, Ohio. We then meet David Neff, a troubled writer who lives nearby. Like his Ohio-based creator, Neff has written a successful book of nonfiction about a serial killer, but after its success, Neff's wife killed herself, whereupon he stopped writing and devoted himself to raising his young son. We fear for Neff's sanity, both because of his wife's death and because the voice of the serial killer still rages in his mind.

"Neff's editor urges him to consider writing about the murder on Primrose Lane, and the more he investigates that crime, the more coincidences emerge. No one knows just who the recluse was, but he left evidence that he knew things about Neff and his late wife, Elizabeth, that he couldn't possibly have known. We learn that Elizabeth had a twin sister who was abducted and apparently murdered when she was 10. Neff begins an affair with a young woman who looks like his late wife and who was herself nearly abducted at the age of 10. To our dismay, he is accused of having murdered the wife that we know - or think we know - he loved. In a further complication, he suspects that in his book he may have attributed some of the murders to the wrong serial killer."

Mcs- you really think that their interest should have been to the east of the crash?

I always thought that search after the CW's sighting was more to cover their asses. I don't think they ever really considered his sighting very credible, but I guess it's actually really hard to say.

What's funny about you saying that is the I've always felt that they had somesort of compelling evidence that placed her west of the crash site, hence the searches only being conducted tithe west and the bolo only being put out to the west.

We know that a bolo requires no extra manpower at all so why not a bolo to the east? Makes no sense st all unless they knew something that night that placed her to the west of the crash site.

I suppose I could be way off here but it seems like apt of their actions indicate that they think she never made it east past the crash site.
I feel like the search up by 116 was more just to cover themselves an make them look like they're doing everythin possible. I suppose that maybe it was just to cover their asses, they may have really been trying to do everything possible too, but it sure seems like they could've done a few more simple things that require no extra resources, so why didn't they do those things?

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Mcs- you really think that their interest should have been to the east of the crash?
I always thought that search after the CW's sighting was more to cover their asses. I don't think they ever really considered his sighting very credible, but I guess it's actually really hard to say.
What's funny about you saying that is the I've always felt that they had somesort of compelling evidence that placed her west of the crash site, hence the searches only being conducted tithe west and the bolo only being put out to the west.
We know that a bolo requires no extra manpower at all so why not a bolo to the east? Makes no sense st all unless they knew something that night that placed her to the west of the crash site.
I suppose I could be way off here but it seems like apt of their actions indicate that they think she never made it east past the crash site.
I feel like the search up by 116 was more just to cover themselves an make them look like they're doing everythin possible. I suppose that maybe it was just to cover their asses, they may have really been trying to do everything possible too, but it sure seems like they could've done a few more simple things that require no extra resources, so why didn't they do those things?

CSmith saw " one set of footprints leading away from the car".

Thats a good question whiston, were her belongings found in her trunk or in her car.

were her valuables put in her trunk?

I think that could speak to her state of mind and her intentions.
If she was so sad that she had just got in another accident, so fucked in the head at that point that she's ready to kill herself by walking into the woods, why would she bother to lock up her belongings or move them anywhere?

she went back and forth between the trunk and the car at least twice. Sounds to me like she was getting her things together for the night and putting valuables in her trunk where they wouldn't be visible.

I feel like her actions clearly indicate an intent to return to her car sometime soon.

Also, her actions do not seem like she was was particularly overcome with grief over the accident or fear of getting a dui. Certainly doesnt seem like she was so distraught that she was now going to kill herself.

She actually seemed pretty relaxed considering the situation, i mean we have faith westman saying that it looked like she was sitting in the car leisurely smoking a cigarette. Who knows, maybe she was smoking a cigarett. I know a lot of people who smoke only when they drink, even a couple girls who are track runners that do this, now that I think about it. These girls never smoke except when they drink. Its not impossible that maura actually smoked a cigarette, especially if she just went through something stressful like an accident. honeslty it seems more likely to me that she was leisurely smoking a cigarette to try to relax rather than FW mistaking a cigarette for a cell phone light. Seems like those 2 things would be really hard to mistake for each other.
She also might have wanted to smoke a cigarette to try to cover up the smell of the drink she drank.
Im of the opinion that she was drinking on the way up but probably only drank 1-2 drinks max. I seriously seriously doubt that she was drinking tough and pouring herself drinks while she drove. I would think that at most she would've drank one drink on the way up through VT, then maybe fill up another whenever she stopped for gas. Thats probably the drink that she spilled out in the snow.
She might have thought that is she smoked a cig she would smell like cigarettes as opposed to alcohol

mcsmom wrote:

<quoted text>
CSmith saw " one set of footprints leading away from the car".

true, but im not understanding what your getting at...please elaborate if you can. thanks

I always found it odd that sharon reported seeing no footprints at the spot where the crash was supposed to have taken place.

Anyone else think this is strange?

Shouldnt there have been multiple sets off prints around the scene? smiths, mauras, ems and fd personel were all on the scene, so how is it possible there were no footprints?

Citi your family, did sharon really make that statement? I definitely believe that she did say that.

We know it didnt snow so who erased all the footprints and why? she also said that she saw the spot in the snowbank that was there from maura opening her door so it appears she was in the same spot.
SOmething is not right about that, where did all the footprints go? There should have been at least 2 sets, mauta's and Smith's

re: post 19770 ISP Hawaii

Jay wrote:

<quoted text>
They look very similar. I honestly think they could very well be the same person.

Are the Kenneys mixed up about who's who? Maybe if they didn't spend so much high time at their coffee farm in Hawaii they'd be better informed.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>The items that were in Mauras vehicle were given back to Billy or family. I dont recall who. In June 2004 Landry went to Kathleens house and picked up the contents that were in Mauras vehicle that had already been released to Billy or family.It was in June or July that there was a search done on 112 down near 116 because of what CW had claimed to see months later concerning a person he had seen running on his way home from a job he was working on in Franconia.From what I remember this search took place in July of 2004.

citigirl - did someone try to reach Fred on his cell phone? It seems Fred got the message late Tues on his home phone. Why didn't fred get a message or call mon night or at a min Tues morn?

Carl Drega wrote:

re: post 19770 ISP Hawaii
<quoted text>
Are the Kenneys mixed up about who's who? Maybe if they didn't spend so much high time at their coffee farm in Hawaii they'd be better informed.

Hi beagle

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

I always found it odd that sharon reported seeing no footprints at the spot where the crash was supposed to have taken place.
Anyone else think this is strange?
Shouldnt there have been multiple sets off prints around the scene? smiths, mauras, ems and fd personel were all on the scene, so how is it possible there were no footprints?
Citi your family, did sharon really make that statement? I definitely believe that she did say that.
We know it didnt snow so who erased all the footprints and why? she also said that she saw the spot in the snowbank that was there from maura opening her door so it appears she was in the same spot.
SOmething is not right about that, where did all the footprints go? There should have been at least 2 sets, mauta's and Smith's

If her car was up against a snow bank and she got out of the drivers side then there should be prints

Phoebe Prince wrote:

Did James Renner's wife kill herself after his book about Amy Mihaljevic was published?
Is his writing intended to make people kill themselves?
From Washington Post review
http://www.arcamax.com/entertainment/bookrevi...
"I've rarely finished a book with more sharply divided feelings than the ones inspired by James Renner's "The Man From Primrose Lane." This first novel is ambitious and innovative - and often maddening. Some readers will find it a fascinating puzzle; others will throw up their hands. If you like your fiction tidy and predictable, look elsewhere. If you don't mind being challenged, surprised and sometimes confused, take a stroll down Primrose Lane. At the very least, you won't be bored.
"The story starts with the murder of the title character, a recluse who lived alone on Primrose Lane in West Akron, Ohio. We then meet David Neff, a troubled writer who lives nearby. Like his Ohio-based creator, Neff has written a successful book of nonfiction about a serial killer, but after its success, Neff's wife killed herself, whereupon he stopped writing and devoted himself to raising his young son. We fear for Neff's sanity, both because of his wife's death and because the voice of the serial killer still rages in his mind.
"Neff's editor urges him to consider writing about the murder on Primrose Lane, and the more he investigates that crime, the more coincidences emerge. No one knows just who the recluse was, but he left evidence that he knew things about Neff and his late wife, Elizabeth, that he couldn't possibly have known. We learn that Elizabeth had a twin sister who was abducted and apparently murdered when she was 10. Neff begins an affair with a young woman who looks like his late wife and who was herself nearly abducted at the age of 10. To our dismay, he is accused of having murdered the wife that we know - or think we know - he loved. In a further complication, he suspects that in his book he may have attributed some of the murders to the wrong serial killer."

Hi Beagle

yup, there should be footprints and according to Smith there were prints.
Thee would have had to at least been a set of prints made by smith as well, and the tow truck driver now that i think of it.
SO thats at least 3 sets of prints that should have been there.

We know it didn't snow in the meantime.

So where did the footprints go?
How is it possible there were no prints when sharon and the family arrived?

Did someone erase the prints? That would be rather easy to do but why?? Why erase potential evidence?

I suppose that just another thing on the long list of things that make no sense about this case..

Tennis, anyone?

CS and tow truck driver could get in the saturn from the road and the road was clean of snow-hence no prints

why should prints show on the road ?

JWB wrote:

<quoted text>
citigirl - did someone try to reach Fred on his cell phone? It seems Fred got the message late Tues on his home phone. Why didn't fred get a message or call mon night or at a min Tues morn?

Where was Fred? he said that maura was supposed to call him monday night at 8pm to fill out some sort of accident forms.

He wasn't worried at all when she didnt call him? He never tried calling her?
Shouldnt he have at least been available for calls just based on what he said that he told maura?

While we are on the topic, has anyone else ever had to fill out an "accident form" after a crash? Ive never heard of this, especially at an accident where a cop is present. Every time Ive ever crashed I had to pick up an accident report from the police station and then send it to my insurance.

My gf crashed my truck on her way home from UMass one day, minor accident in Hadley with a police officer present. She definitely did not have to fill out any accident forms. About 7-10 days later she had to go pick up the accident report at the Hadley PD and send it to my insurance company.
since when do people fill out accident forms aftrer an accident?

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
Where was Fred? he said that maura was supposed to call him monday night at 8pm to fill out some sort of accident forms.
He wasn't worried at all when she didnt call him? He never tried calling her?
Shouldnt he have at least been available for calls just based on what he said that he told maura?
While we are on the topic, has anyone else ever had to fill out an "accident form" after a crash? Ive never heard of this, especially at an accident where a cop is present. Every time Ive ever crashed I had to pick up an accident report from the police station and then send it to my insurance.
My gf crashed my truck on her way home from UMass one day, minor accident in Hadley with a police officer present. She definitely did not have to fill out any accident forms. About 7-10 days later she had to go pick up the accident report at the Hadley PD and send it to my insurance company.
since when do people fill out accident forms aftrer an accident?

LE obviously has that answer as they have his full cell records and know where he was and hopefully searched it= he said he was at a hotel chain in Bridgeport Ct but that chain is not in Bridgeport but in Shelton CT- The name of the suites escapes me at the moment. Maybe in 2004 it was different IDK ?

Carl Drega wrote:

re: post 19770 ISP Hawaii
<quoted text>
Are the Kenneys mixed up about who's who? Maybe if they didn't spend so much high time at their coffee farm in Hawaii they'd be better informed.

Your talking about Liko Kenney's family? Do they have a coffee farm in Hawaii? They live in NH and Hawaii?
How exactly do the Kenneys relate to this? I dont get it.

I can see what he's talking about there though, they certainly look to me like they could very well be the same person.

Also, In the video with the construction worker the guy refers to himself as "mr 1974".....What is up with that? just a coincidence thats the same year this guy escaped from the mental hospital? WHy choose mr 1974? Thats some weird ass shit if you ask me.

John McGrath had to have gone somewhere after ezcaping the mental hospital...maybe he went out Western Mass?

JWB wrote:

CS and tow truck driver could get in the saturn from the road and the road was clean of snow-hence no prints

Ok, thats definetly true JWB. Maybe they didnt even step in the snow.
I was thinking that Smith must have walked around the other side of the car at least once but i guess thats not neccesarily a fact or anything.

But I dont think the tow truck driver would be able to hook up to the car from the side without stepping in the snow.
What do you think? Think he could have hooked up the car without stepping in the snow at all? generally tow truck drivers need to hook up from the middle of the car.

SO I guess there should have only been at least one set of prints(maura's), what happened to those?