Maura Murray

Just me--paris wrote:

<quoted text>Maybe she could hear the siron in the near distance and thought she'd better just skip it? She was seen at the car 1-2 minutes before police got there, so she likely had to high tail it.

What? I was talking about the NHCCU and their priority protocol sort of speak

Hi paris did i confuse you with my post/ sometime i don't explain myself the right way. thanks for joining in so late

Haverhill PD has gone through so many changes in staffing these past eight years. The present Chief was a rookie that night of 2/9/2004 chasing down a "bearded hoodie" off Central St.Woodsville.
He and another rookie were, in later shift pulling over "trucks"....
That year Town Report read of problems with the monies spent to train prospective policemen, only to have them leave for another Town.
If one feels I am wrong, then check the local library for their past Haverhill Town Reports...
OR local newspaper(s)

shack- maybe not taking her personal Belongings could indicate an intent to return to the car.

I could see if she knew her bf was picking her up she might just grab a few things she needs for the night, she's gonna be going back to the car the next day anyways, why would she need to grab every single thing that she was gonna need.
I would think if she was just planning on running, escaping, and never seeing the car again she would have taken things like her jewelry.
Im pretty sure she basically took some clothes and a bottle of kahlua, to me that sounds like she thought she would be coming back to the car sometime soon.

Do you think that sounds right? I feel like she would take more if she was planning on running and not coming back.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

shack- maybe not taking her personal Belongings could indicate an intent to return to the car.
I could see if she knew her bf was picking her up she might just grab a few things she needs for the night, she's gonna be going back to the car the next day anyways, why would she need to grab every single thing that she was gonna need.
I would think if she was just planning on running, escaping, and never seeing the car again she would have taken things like her jewelry.
Im pretty sure she basically took some clothes and a bottle of kahlua, to me that sounds like she thought she would be coming back to the car sometime soon.
Do you think that sounds right? I feel like she would take more if she was planning on running and not coming back.

agree completely jenkins- Did Mauras car have auto locks? Prob Not right

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

shack- maybe not taking her personal Belongings could indicate an intent to return to the car.
I could see if she knew her bf was picking her up she might just grab a few things she needs for the night, she's gonna be going back to the car the next day anyways, why would she need to grab every single thing that she was gonna need.
I would think if she was just planning on running, escaping, and never seeing the car again she would have taken things like her jewelry.
Im pretty sure she basically took some clothes and a bottle of kahlua, to me that sounds like she thought she would be coming back to the car sometime soon.
Do you think that sounds right? I feel like she would take more if she was planning on running and not coming back.

Yes, I believe she locked the car with intent to return....No, I do not believe that she drove those hours to Haverhill to meet a friend on 112. She didn't know of 112....
AND, there were 3 bottles missing...

Yup I remember reading that report jwb, it was def discussed on the orig mm forum.
Smith was properly trained though right?
The way I understood it he was trained at the academy, or wherever it is hpd get trained, but it put a strain on their budget to have to pay for training s new recruit again. Was there any problem with his training?

I think its crazy that smith became chief that fast. In 2004 he's an idiot rookie getting lost on the way to an accident in his own hometown and then by 2012 he's the cheif?? Really? How's that work? There was really no other officer in Haverhill more qualified than a guy who'd been on the job 8 years?
I know the firmer cheif got busted for DUI and fired but come on.

Does anyone know why smith isn't cheif now? Does he still work for the hpd? Was he only an interim cheif while they found a good candidate?
What is going on in the hpd?
Something I've thought is that just the simple fact that they arrested the former chief for DUI shows that they aren't that corrupt. But were any other towns cops involved? Or any state cops?
Did they know it was the cheif when they tried to pull him over or did they find out when they finally caught him.
I couldn't believe that shit when I read that

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Yup I remember reading that report jwb, it was def discussed on the orig mm forum.
Smith was properly trained though right?
The way I understood it he was trained at the academy, or wherever it is hpd get trained, but it put a strain on their budget to have to pay for training s new recruit again. Was there any problem with his training?
I think its crazy that smith became chief that fast. In 2004 he's an idiot rookie getting lost on the way to an accident in his own hometown and then by 2012 he's the cheif?? Really? How's that work? There was really no other officer in Haverhill more qualified than a guy who'd been on the job 8 years?
I know the firmer cheif got busted for DUI and fired but come on.
Does anyone know why smith isn't cheif now? Does he still work for the hpd? Was he only an interim cheif while they found a good candidate?
What is going on in the hpd?
Something I've thought is that just the simple fact that they arrested the former chief for DUI shows that they aren't that corrupt. But were any other towns cops involved? Or any state cops?
Did they know it was the cheif when they tried to pull him over or did they find out when they finally caught him.
I couldn't believe that shit when I read that

CS smith left after 1 year ??? why is that local boy working way up?

I know nothin is in concrete jenkins but thought you might have some insight?

Her car was a bare bones Saturn, pretty sure those don't have power locks.

Shack what do you mean she didn't know "of" 112?
She never heard of it as a rd? I think your trying to say she disnt really know it, like she knew the other side of 112; the kancamagus highway/Bartlett area.
The only reason she didn't know the area she crashed well was because it is not a popular hiking spot at all. There are no popular mountains for hiking and no ski areas in the immediate area.
But that doesn't mean she didn't know of 112 as a road to go on, it actually appears that she DID know that it's the way to get to Lincoln.
One thing that I've never seen listed in her possessions was a road atlas.
She printed out Mapquest directions to Stowe, and burlington.

If she had ever driven up to Nh from western mass she would have known 112 is the way to go. 112 is simply the fastest way to go. So she certainly had reason to be on 112 whether she was meeting anyone or not. Saying she didn't know of or even know 112 is silly, she obviously knew it, what did she do make a wrong turn down the right way? I know Fred said that he thinks she was going to
Bartlett but I think that he's wrong, I feel like he just thinks that because it was their place to go. Maura seemed like she was smart and resourceful, I think that she would have known that she could get a hotel easily in the Lincoln area. When you roll into Lincoln there's hotels everywhere. It's really the only town in northern Nh like this. If I'm going to just try to get a walk-in room in Nh, I'm going to Lincoln. I suspect Maura had the same thought. I feel like she called Stowe, & then the condo in Bartlett and probably realized a condo wasn't happening, you need reservations for a condo and they need to send a key because there's no innkeeper.
So she was looking for s hotel. I'm sure there's some hotels in Bartlett but I can't really think of any. I would seriously be worried about being able to walk in an find a room up there. She was heading to Lincoln because she knew she would have been able to find a room there and if not there's also hotels right down 93 10 min in campton and Plymouth that she would have driven past countless times in her life on their way up Nh.
She didn't have a map and she knew about 112 as the way to go to get to that part of Nh, I think that shows pretty clear intention of going to Lincoln, a place she had been many times and is near many of the nicest spots in Nh, and even ode to
Bartlett if she did end up wanting to find a condo there.

Judging by the direction she was travelling in I don't see how anyone(even her dad) can say she didn't know about 112. Maybe she didnt know that side of the road well but what does that matter? She had just gotten her license a year before, it's not like she wasn't always driving on roads she didn't really know as soon as she left her hometown.
Just by the fact she took 112 shows she knew where she was going, or she was an idiot just driving down random roads in nh

Jwb you really think that some of the posters mat actually be local cops?
2 months ago I would've said that's crazy, but lately I'm really startin to wonder.
It seems like some of thase posters has a vested interest in stopping this conversation.
More than just that they don't like it.
It just seems like certain people will do anything they can to stop this thread.
In the las couple weeks they're really showing how desperate they are to stop it.
First they tried to make it into a joke by using detective shtick and PhoebePrince to make disgusting jokes to me. Once I started ignoring them they actualt stole my moniker. Then they're posting under my name to make me look crazy so I had to respond. Couldnt make it stop so I registered my new moniker. Now they can't steal my moniker, and they know that I just completely ignore their idiotic jokes so not they
Decided to try to make me look like a liar, trying really hard too. How do I just ignore that? I can't, so they've succeeded at sucking me back into arguing about stupid details with them that don't really matter. Also in the proccess they're attempting to make me look like some nut who likes Arguing with people online.

My whole point is: why do they care SOOOO much? Theybe made it abundantly clear that they don't care about Maura so why do they care? They don't care about Maura and whh do they care if we are stupid or annoying or whatever, don't come to the thread if everyone is so stupid. I'm sure they'll turn that around and try to say im trying to tell people they can't post but I think you get the point. That they care way more about what's being said on topix than actually finding a missing girl.
There's something wrong with that picture.
I'm really starting to wonder who some of these posters really are.
Are some actual habehill pd.? Former pd? they did Get caight w their pants down, totally flip flopped around, said many unproffesional statements, both in their content and accuracy of said content.
Haverhill pd is an interesting police force to say the least.

I still wonder how smith got to be chief so damn fast. Was there nobody more qualified than a guy who was only on the job a few years? In 2004 he disnt even know his way around his own hometown.
Why only for 1 year? Was he only interim chief until they found a replacement?
I heard he didn't like the job, which seems strange. Why wouldn't he like being boss?
Definitely an interesting department if you ask me

Shack- are you sure there were 3 bottles missing?
I always thought it was 3 top, that was definitely the # everyone thought back on the old mm & mmm forums but it appears we were wrong back then.

My research has indicated that in reality she only took one bottle of kahlua.
That may be wrong but I don't think that it is.
I'm gonna go look to make sure but I'm pretty sure renner came to the same conclusion.
This could be a relatively important thing to clear up if it Is possible to do so.
If it is true she only brought a bottle of kahlua that to me is a clear indication she was planning on meeting up with someone else.

I gotta go look and dig up the info about the one bottle again because I'm pretty damn sure that it's right.
I remember being dumfounded when finding that out because everyone always said 3 bottles including me

Ok so the nhsp definitely suspect foul play, no doubt about it.

I never actually read the Nh ccu website but they make it very clear, using completely unambiguous language.
To be investigated by the cold case unit a missing person is only included if foul play is suspected. Meaning they suspect foul play.
Also all the cases are reviewed by the states homicide prosecutor & murder police. These guys aren't going to actively imvestigate a case that they think is simply some drink girl who wandered miles into the woods because she was drunk.

The ccu only imvestigates murders and missing people where murders are suspected.
That means they definitely do not think she walked into the woods and froze to death.
These are professionals who have really seen the casefile and investigated the case. They're not gonna say they suspect foul play, and put her on the list saying it's suspected she was murdered if they thinks there's any sort of chance that she's gonna turn up in those woods, they don't do that.

One more point As to maura's so called rush of adrenaline that's talked about so much like it's a fact and it's evidence she went into the woods. Idk how that constitutes evidence but any time I ask for evidence I get bullshit about adrenaline and alcohol.

So let's examine what her actions were as witnessed by the westmans.
They describe hearing s thud and looking out their window.
She was in the EB lane facing WB. They describe the csr being dark for a couple minutes.
They see her go back and forth between the car and the trunk. Shes seen at the trunk.
Then they also saw her sitting on the passenger side, with the passenger door open, for a few minutes "leisurely smoking a cigarette". FW thought she was smoking, might've been a cell phone but that doesn't matter. The key word here is leisurely. She sat there for a few minutes with the passenger door open either trying to use her phone or maybe even smoking a cigarette. cig.
Idk but to me that really doesn't sound like she was very scared of the cops at that point.
Doesn't sound to me like the actions of someone who's so hopped up on booze adrenaline so much that she's not thinking straight. Even if she's maybe not thinking perfectly straight it certainly doesn't sound anything like someone who's so hopped up on adrenaline and not thinking straight that they're about to walk miles into the woods to their death.
Not at all.
Sounds like she was pretty calm and methodical considering the situation she was in right then.
I don't see how anybody can look at that and think that her only intention was to get away from the scene to avoid a DUI. If someone's really trying to avoid a DUI charge they tend to flee the scene immediately. They're not gonna sit there leisurely smoking or using their cell phone with their door wide open. That's just not the behavior of someone who's drunk and high on adrenaline who's only goal is to get out of a DUI charge, so much that they're willing to die to escape.

The witness accounts simply do not fit that profile at all. I know the theory is that she was drunk and the only thing on her mind was avoiding police. Who just sits there leisurely when they're trying to escape at all costs?
Who waits around 5-10 mins if they're trying escape LE?
Doesn't happen. If she was that drunk and hopped up on adrenalin she might've grabbed something out of her car, but she would not have just been sitting there in the car.
This is another major problem with the lost in the woods theory. Nobody reports her as being drunk, sbd actually said she didnt look intoxicated.
Nobody reported any crazy actions you would expect out of someone so scared of getting busted that theyre hopped up on adrenaline.

I know the whole shes lost innthe woods theory- is
Based on her being drunk, so drunk that she definitely would have been arrested for DUI. She would be scared and this would cause major adrenaline to pump and alcohol and adrenaline can be a dangerous combo.

But there's actually no evidence she was drunk and there's witness accounts that show she obviously wasn't that drunk, she seemed to walk and talk fine and the sbd never reported her looking intoxicated.
So it appears she wasn't very drunk her actions certainly don't look like she was trying to leave she scene that quickly or that she was even very
Scared of the cops.

It does seem to me that there have been many missing young women/men who have walked out after trouble with their families. They may well have every intention of getting away for a while to sort their thinking out and because they are muddled they are vulnerable and could succumb to human predators. Also, there are people who have been missing many years who are eventually found and say "I didn't think anyone would be looking for me" or "I didn't think anyone would care". It's impossible to know what happened to Maura, everything said is sheer speculation. Must be heartbreaking for her family.

In the "Disappeared" programme it says she bought Kalhua, Vodka and another bottle of alcohol (I can't remember what - it may have been a box of wine) to make White Russians.

Hi all,Does anyone know if the contents of the saturn were found in the trunk.I have always thought that someone was trying to get out a jack or something for traction to help get the car moving and they were in no hurry to get away.Now i am wondering if they were actually putting things in the trunk for safe keeping.I asked about the jack on the old MMM site but got no reply.Just scratcing my noggin here but what if someone did try to get the saturn moving again could this maybe explain why we have maybe 3 or 4 or still the wrong location of where the saturn was actually towed from,I assume MrLavoie could have easily seen if the back seat had any luggage on it or a box of wine.Take care philip

Jenkins it was the neighbor within eye sight of the scene that had said SBD parked his bus unusual that night. When ever I rode by SBDs house on weekends 99% of the time there were 2 full sized buses parked on SBDs property. One was parked off the roadway parallel to 112 with the front facing the west. The other bus was always backed in with the front of the bus facing 112.With what I had seen with the way the buses were always parked was normal procedure. So Im not sure why this neighbor had said it was unusual.

**Please note this is a post from May 2004**

Lanie
05/14/04 at 10:04 PM #4
An update, from the gal who called LE

I have received this from the gal who thinks she may have seen Maura.

It seems that LE does not take this seriously.

"11:27AM
A detective from NH State PD just called. Asked a few questions, the basics, DOB what I saw etc and said ok, if I happened to see this girl/young lady again to give them a call and they would have one of the "VT guys" come over.
Kathie"

Please make your voices heard...and God bless you for your compassion for Maura and her family.

With love and hope, Lanie
Help For The Missing
HelpForTheMissing@yahoo.com

Bear in mind this period of time was just after CW story/sighting and right around the time of the search 5 miles east of Weathered Barn. Right after Circle of Hope Ceremony, and just prior to recollection of items from Kathleen, and major crimes.

mcsmom wrote:

**Please note this is a post from May 2004**
Lanie
05/14/04 at 10:04 PM #4
An update, from the gal who called LE
I have received this from the gal who thinks she may have seen Maura.
It seems that LE does not take this seriously.
"11:27AM
A detective from NH State PD just called. Asked a few questions, the basics, DOB what I saw etc and said ok, if I happened to see this girl/young lady again to give them a call and they would have one of the "VT guys" come over.
Kathie"
Please make your voices heard...and God bless you for your compassion for Maura and her family.
With love and hope, Lanie
Help For The Missing
HelpForTheMissing@yahoo.com
Bear in mind this period of time was just after CW story/sighting and right around the time of the search 5 miles east of Weathered Barn. Right after Circle of Hope Ceremony, and just prior to recollection of items from Kathleen, and major crimes.

The items that were in Mauras vehicle were given back to Billy or family. I dont recall who. In June 2004 Landry went to Kathleens house and picked up the contents that were in Mauras vehicle that had already been released to Billy or family.It was in June or July that there was a search done on 112 down near 116 because of what CW had claimed to see months later concerning a person he had seen running on his way home from a job he was working on in Franconia.From what I remember this search took place in July of 2004.