Maura Murray

JWB wrote:

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That is another possibilty for certain. I think there is a good possibility that Maura did have another boyfriend. Her relationship with billy was shakey as described by some and long term relationships when you are in your early 20's are very difficult at best. Mauras computer may have held information
on another boyfriend. I am sure that she didn't call other Boys with the cell phone the Rauches had been paying for but maybe she called him from the school phone and used calling cards.

In despair&maybe pregnant,Maura may have decided to "run" to this person,maybe she just showed up on his doorstep&met with a chilly reception(wife),maybe Maura raced off&crashed,maybe he was concerned&took the red truck to find her..a lot of maybes,but SOMETHING made her drive an unreliable car up there..

JWB wrote:

I do find it odd however for a young female to take off alone without telling anyone unless maura was an introvert and wanted to work stuff out internally.

I find it very compelling that her father who has been vocal about everything did not go crazy on her friends to open up to him about the possibilities of where she was going. Please don't tell me that if he was capable of going on private property for a search he wouldn't push the friends for info. He sits in bars to "over hear" conversations but he doesn't press her friends. Perhaps he had enough influence to get her in an unreliable car to drive and meet him. She had the accidents reports for him. He calls her at 8-9 on sunday night to make sure she gets the accident reports? Why did she need to get them so soon? Did he know she was going away? The next day she is searching on the internet for places to stay near where they used to go when she was younger.
Her father says she grabs the accident reports to give to him, and "he knew she wouldn't let him down". So was she planning on seeing him, or else she would have told him the same thing she told her teachers that she was leaving for a week. Wouldn't she say something like " Dad I know I crashed your car and I have to get the reports to you ASAP but I'm leaving town for a little bit, the accident reports have to wait" Her father was expecting to hear from her or else he would have been pissed if she disappeared and didn't get the reports to him. Any parent would be mad.

I'm not stating anything above is a fact but I strongly believe she would have made mention to him where and why she couldn't get the accident reports to him right away. If she told her teachers that she was leaving for a week, wouldn't she tell her father why she was leaving and why she couldn't get the reports to him ASAP?

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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I find it very compelling that her father who has been vocal about everything did not go crazy on her friends to open up to him about the possibilities of where she was going. Please don't tell me that if he was capable of going on private property for a search he wouldn't push the friends for info. He sits in bars to "over hear" conversations but he doesn't press her friends. Perhaps he had enough influence to get her in an unreliable car to drive and meet him. She had the accidents reports for him. He calls her at 8-9 on sunday night to make sure she gets the accident reports? Why did she need to get them so soon? Did he know she was going away? The next day she is searching on the internet for places to stay near where they used to go when she was younger.
Her father says she grabs the accident reports to give to him, and "he knew she wouldn't let him down". So was she planning on seeing him, or else she would have told him the same thing she told her teachers that she was leaving for a week. Wouldn't she say something like " Dad I know I crashed your car and I have to get the reports to you ASAP but I'm leaving town for a little bit, the accident reports have to wait" Her father was expecting to hear from her or else he would have been pissed if she disappeared and didn't get the reports to him. Any parent would be mad.
I'm not stating anything above is a fact but I strongly believe she would have made mention to him where and why she couldn't get the accident reports to him right away. If she told her teachers that she was leaving for a week, wouldn't she tell her father why she was leaving and why she couldn't get the reports to him ASAP?

where do you get the information that Fred didn't talk to mauras Friends? He advised them not to go public is all I had read.The Fbi supposidly spoke with Mauras family and Friends as well.

Also the reports (accident) need to be filled out within 5 days of the crtash per the DMV

Maura brought the formswith her and was possibly looking to call her dad that night as she said she wouldat 8pm but that never happened.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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I find it very compelling that her father who has been vocal about everything did not go crazy on her friends to open up to him about the possibilities of where she was going. Please don't tell me that if he was capable of going on private property for a search he wouldn't push the friends for info. He sits in bars to "over hear" conversations but he doesn't press her friends. Perhaps he had enough influence to get her in an unreliable car to drive and meet him. She had the accidents reports for him. He calls her at 8-9 on sunday night to make sure she gets the accident reports? Why did she need to get them so soon? Did he know she was going away? The next day she is searching on the internet for places to stay near where they used to go when she was younger.
Her father says she grabs the accident reports to give to him, and "he knew she wouldn't let him down". So was she planning on seeing him, or else she would have told him the same thing she told her teachers that she was leaving for a week. Wouldn't she say something like " Dad I know I crashed your car and I have to get the reports to you ASAP but I'm leaving town for a little bit, the accident reports have to wait" Her father was expecting to hear from her or else he would have been pissed if she disappeared and didn't get the reports to him. Any parent would be mad.
I'm not stating anything above is a fact but I strongly believe she would have made mention to him where and why she couldn't get the accident reports to him right away. If she told her teachers that she was leaving for a week, wouldn't she tell her father why she was leaving and why she couldn't get the reports to him ASAP?

Maybe Maura thought Fred would be back on Wednesday the 11th to return the rental car to Potters, as per the rental agreement, at which time she could have given the report to him directly.

JWB wrote:

Maura brought the formswith her and was possibly looking to call her dad that night as she said she wouldat 8pm but that never happened.

I just find it difficult to believe that she didn't check in or mention where she was going. I think he knew she was going through some hard times and kicks himself for maybe not helping her or being able to help her when she was in trouble. The last time they saw each other face to face might not have been pleasant and I think he may have strong regrets in the form of should have, would have, and could have. In a way I think if Maura committed suicide he would feel worse then if she was murdered. I don't know.

mcsmom wrote:

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Maybe Maura thought Fred would be back on Wednesday the 11th to return the rental car to Potters, as per the rental agreement, at which time she could have given the report to him directly.

Its strange Fred didnt get a one way rental..If he planned on returning it to Potters Feb 11,how did he plan on returning home..So driving back up there was a plan that most likely involved the accident reports.when DID he return the rental?

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>Also for this theory to work she would have to break a cardinal rule of getting into a car with a stranger. I can't see that happening. She would take her chances in the woods in my opinion rather than with a stranger. If she was smart enough not to go into the woods then she was smart enough not to take a ride with a stranger.

This is one part that has always bothered me about the theory that she accepted a ride from a stranger. It IS a cardinal rule, and one I think most women would subscribe to if at all possible. Please note that the reason the cardinal rules exists is to protect women from predatory men. I am not a man hater, this is just a fact of life, women are taught to fear men in these types of situations, and for good reason.

I am female, mid-50s, not scary looking, yet not long ago, on my way to the grocery store, I saw a woman broken down on the side of a highway in southern NH, during the day, on a section of road that was about two miles from service stations in either direction. I pulled over and offered her a ride as it was really hot out, and I personally know how scared I would be to break down anywhere. She eyed me suspiciously, kept well away from my car, and refused the help, saying she would call a friend. I passed her by on my return home about a half hour later, walking, about a mile from her car, and this time I kept driving. I understood her fear of accepting a ride from a stranger.

This is simply to illustrate that even in broad daylight, a woman may be afraid of accepting a ride. Don't underestimate how strong that warning voice is in women - it is pounded into our heads from childhood. In Maura's case, it was dark, in the middle of nowhere, in an area where she knew nobody in the immediate vicinity. Even going up to a front door to ask for help would be scary. I find it very hard to believe that she accepted a ride from a stranger. I believe that she did find SBD a scary person to look at, as his wife said, and I would have refused to accompany him to his house, school bus or not.

If it were me, I would have walked back in the direction I had come from, knowing that there were businesses and phones in that direction, and not knowing for sure what was ahead going east. I would have hidden from cars passing by if I could, like the CW said the person he saw did. I'm sure the snowbanks were probably too high to do that easily, but if you are scared, you would find a way. You can see headlights from a long way off, and you would have time to at least get behind something.

I also think that she was traveling alone. If she were not, she would have told the SBD that somebody would be along shortly to help her. She would not have told him she had called AAA. If she were nervous enough about him to not accept help, and she knew she was being followed by someone she knew, she would have made it clear that she was not "alone" and therefore vulnerable. When you are feeling vulnerable, most people, especially women, can think quickly enough to say they aren't alone, even if they're lying. If she truly knew somebody she knew was following her, she would have said so. Even when she got back to "civilization," the same fear would have applied.

So, in my opinion, she was either abducted, or she ended up in the woods. Luckily, Jenkins seems to have disappeared, so I can actually say that she may have died in the woods. I'll address that in a separate comment.

findmaura wrote:

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Its strange Fred didnt get a one way rental..If he planned on returning it to Potters Feb 11,how did he plan on returning home..So driving back up there was a plan that most likely involved the accident reports.when DID he return the rental?

I would imagine he would have driven his own car home, if by then the repair was complete.

In Amherst,who was the last person to see her?Someone that ACTUALLY knew Maura personally..The person that saw her leaving the dorms could be mistaken..which leads me to the ATM video,was it REALLY maura??and per usual I cant forget her in distress saying "My sister,my sister".

mcsmom wrote:

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I would imagine he would have driven his own car home, if by then the repair was complete.

wasnt it substantial damage?I dont think the insurance adjuster looksee or the ordering of parts could happen that quickly.

JWB wrote:

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My feeling is that if she was planning on suicide then why the need to withdraw $280 from the bank
and why bring the accident reports and school books along for the ride.

I guess the difference lies in our experiences dealing with victims of suicide. In my experience people rarely plan the event very carefully, IE: suicide note and getting affairs in order. This is mostly in elderly people who have medical conditions and have planned the end for a while.

In my experience most 'despair' suicides are very unplanned and not thought out. The attempt has been thought about quote alot, but rarely is it planned out the the extent you believe it is.

In most cases I have seen it is an act of despair, emotional despair, mixed with alcohol and/or drugs. The act of taking out $280 actually makes complete sense to me, she wanted enough to get where she wanted to go, enough to buy whatever booze she needed, enough to accomplish the task.

I really would be interested to know your experience with suicides, maybe my experience's are uncommon?

JWB wrote:

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I just don't feel that suicide was her intention when she started out. on her adventure.

I tend to agree with this, I don't think it was her absolute intent when left UMass, however I think she had considered it. I do think though that she was emotional and upset, for a number of reasons. I think the crash at the WB was the proverbail straw that broke the camels back, I think she left the scene on foot with her backpack and alcohol and at some point she had just had enough. I have seen this so many times I would almost say it is common for suicide attempts.

Or, you could say, she left her life behind.

FrmLE wrote:

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I guess the difference lies in our experiences dealing with victims of suicide. In my experience people rarely plan the event very carefully, IE: suicide note and getting affairs in order. This is mostly in elderly people who have medical conditions and have planned the end for a while.
In my experience most 'despair' suicides are very unplanned and not thought out. The attempt has been thought about quote alot, but rarely is it planned out the the extent you believe it is.
In most cases I have seen it is an act of despair, emotional despair, mixed with alcohol and/or drugs. The act of taking out $280 actually makes complete sense to me, she wanted enough to get where she wanted to go, enough to buy whatever booze she needed, enough to accomplish the task.
I really would be interested to know your experience with suicides, maybe my experience's are uncommon?
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I tend to agree with this, I don't think it was her absolute intent when left UMass, however I think she had considered it. I do think though that she was emotional and upset, for a number of reasons. I think the crash at the WB was the proverbail straw that broke the camels back, I think she left the scene on foot with her backpack and alcohol and at some point she had just had enough. I have seen this so many times I would almost say it is common for suicide attempts.
Or, you could say, she left her life behind.

My only experience with suicide is a co worker and my best friends brother and both were by hangings. No long trip to go drinking and walking into the woods. The bodies were there for all to see and that is my understanding of suicides. They are a cry for help and generally are impulsive hence the body is there for all to find.

I do see the point that the WB curve could have sent her into a dark place. two car accidents and the Pizza CC ordeal are enormous to handle.

Unfortunately we will never know the truth until she is found.

Did she fill up her gas tank because she really wasnt sure how far she'd drive before commiting suicide??personally,if I were that distraught I wouldnt be interested in a top off..

I just really hope LE (if not involved)has a lot more evidence than we know of&the 75% chance of arrest is real.

findmaura wrote:

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wasnt it substantial damage?I dont think the insurance adjuster looksee or the ordering of parts could happen that quickly.

I agree, but some sort of estimate of time must have been determined, as repair and rental were close location.

On Monday it appears Maura would have been expecting Fred to return the rental on Wednesday in Amherst, according to the rental contract. Other arrangements could have been made though.

findmaura wrote:

Did she fill up her gas tank because she really wasnt sure how far she'd drive before commiting suicide??personally,if I were that distraught I wouldnt be interested in a top off..

Again as mentioned by frmLE I don't think the suicide was planned. Another drinking and driving accident - another phone call to tell your father you messed up. Keep in mind she was kicked out of one school for cc fraud, and might have been on her way out of another because of it. She was an athlete and a competitor. She went from top in her class to maybe not having any college class to go to.

Runners are their own biggest critics. There really aren't people that can cheer you on except the voice in your head. That is the voice that motivates you to keep on running through the pain for a better time. Eventually that voice turned against her and pushed her toward irrational. That with the help of some drinks.

jwb wrote:

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My only experience with suicide is a co worker and my best friends brother and both were by hangings. No long trip to go drinking and walking into the woods. The bodies were there for all to see and that is my understanding of suicides. They are a cry for help and generally are impulsive hence the body is there for all to find.

In 2004 it is estimated there were 811,000 suicide attempts in the US.(AAS)

Substance abuse is a risk factor for suicide.

Suicide is the 11th leading cause of death in the U.S.(homicide is 15th).(CDC)

Suicide is the 3rd leading cause of death for 15- to 24-year-old Americans.(CDC)

According to the Violent Death Reporting System, in 2004 73% of suicides also tested positive for at least one substance (alcohol, cocaine, heroin or marijuana).

"Anyone who tries to kill him/herself must be crazy."
Not True. Most suicidal people are not psychotic or insane. They may be upset, grief-stricken, depressed or despairing. Extreme distress and emotional pain are always signs of mental illness but are not signs of psychosis.