Maura Murray

just me wrote:

<quoted text>I think many missed the boat when this first happened. Linda Salamone reflected that maybe she could have helped in some way....if only someone had called her after the news of MM missing.
Sharon didn't start examining that bill enough to know if police, PI's or the like had even looked into these last calls thoroughly. Something like 8 or 10 months had gone by before this came to light.
I too find it hard to believe the family did not at least try to read her computer. At some point they were told UMASS made the first hard drive copy, so maybe at that point they thought they were going to be included on any findings?

The Linda Salamone call is another example that makes me scratch my head. Sharon had access to MM's phone records because she paid for the phone. Why didn't they call the numbers on the phone bill the day she went missing?
There are so many small inconsistent comments and actions that go against any reasonable logic.

Bobjenkins-og wrote:

<quoted text>
Maybe I'm crazy but I think the rag could habe played a much bigger role in her dissapearance than anyone thinks. Think about it; we have several mechanics who are experts on cars who say that a rag could be used to disable a vehicle. We have evidence that her car stalled going into the curve rather than her spinning out after the curve. The car also started up just fine after the crash do it didn't just die on her. We have a rag stuffed deep in the muffler and a missing girl.
Basically a rag can be used to stall out a car, her car did stall out & a rag was found in her muffler & now she's missing.

Jenkins her father stated that he gave her the rag. So in order for someone to place that rag up the muffler they would need to get into her trunk and use that rag and jam it up the muffler. If perp wanted to disable a car I believe that they would have brought their own rag, or better yet used an easier means to disable a car.

THIS IS THE NHSP OFFICER THAT WAS AT THE MAURA MURRAY ACCIDENT SITE. WE NOW HAVE HIM IN FRANCONIA.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/franconia-nh/...

Bobjenkins-og wrote:

<quoted text>
That sounds logical lighthouse but they witnesses do not report anything like this at all. They specifically say there was one set of footprints leading away from the car and no other footprints.
I would think that if footprints/handprints like this existed somebody would've said something about it as that would put to rest any debate over when the rag got placed there. Scarinza himself seems very confused about the rag, he calls it an anomaly. If there were prints around it that caused CS to check I doubt he would b confused about it. They still wouldn't know exactly why but they would know who and when it got placed.
Maybe I'm crazy but I think the rag could habe played a much bigger role in her dissapearance than anyone thinks. Think about it; we have several mechanics who are experts on cars who say that a rag could be used to disable a vehicle. We have evidence that her car stalled going into the curve rather than her spinning out after the curve. The car also started up just fine after the crash do it didn't just die on her. We have a rag stuffed deep in the muffler and a missing girl.
Basically a rag can be used to stall out a car, her car did stall out & a rag was found in her muffler & now she's missing.

Can you provide a link to the evidence proving that the car stalled before she crashed. Thanks

Hi Jenkins, thank you for your reply.

I think the difference (why they spent so much time) in this case might be that the driver was missing, there was red liquid splattered on the inside of the car, alcohol poured out behind the car, and a crack in the windshield. No way to know how drunk she was or if she was injured (even though SBD saw no blood, doesn't mean she wasn't injured). A car from out of town, and a young driver. If someone like that wanders off, or flees the scene, I can see there being concern to try to make sure she hasn't wandered into the woods with a concussion or falling down drunk etc. In the logs someone asks if she had been found or if she arrived at Cottage hospital. I think they were maybe concerned with her safety and not about someone abducting her.

However, it makes sense to preserve any evidence just in case.

I don't think they took the red trucks very seriously. Regarding the truck that RO saw, I have posted this before but it was months ago:

"Sgt. Beausoleil said another tip, from a woman who was walking on Route 112 in Bath, N.H., on Feb. 9, also could not help investigators develop a criminal case.

The woman reported a suspicious man in a red pickup truck with Massachusetts plates eyeing her near the Stage Stop general store in Bath at about 7 that night.

According to the woman, the man left when she went into the store and headed east toward the accident scene. Ten minutes later, the woman saw Haverhill police go by in the same direction, responding to the accident.

She didn't have a license plate number, so that doesn't give us anything,'' Beausoleil said. We don't feel confident it's connected.''
Copyright 2004 The Patriot Ledger
Transmitted Wednesday, March 03, 2004

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Still absurd. I thought that everyone knew now that it isn't possible to stall a car in this manner? She crashed her car, and then she fled the scene. I suggest anyone, who believes this, should try it. That is what investigation means. Is a scenario legitimate or not. There are people here saying this can happen. Of course there are some saying the rag was jammed way up the muffler, and others saying it was hanging out. Who is correct?
I am so looking forward to when everyone goes over the trailer hitch information again though.
Bill

Hey Bill. I don't think anyone stalled Maura's car with an intention to kill her. I think it's possible Maura stalled it herself by putting the rag up there like her dad says he told her to do.

I am not familiar with cars, so last time we all had this debate on the forum about if it's possible to stall a car with a rag, I asked two professional mechanics to get their opinions. They both said it is possible to stall her Saturn that way. However, one way very adamant that if she had the rag up her tailpipe for that whole drive that it would have either stalled or fallen out (depending on how the rag was placed) long before the WB crash scene.

In other words, for this stall to have happened, she would have had to have made a stop somewhere nearer to the WB and put the rag in at that time -- perhaps because her car was smoking, and this is what her father told her to do if her car was smoking.

This scenario sounds more sensible to me than a woman who is trying to flee the scene of a DUI taking the time to shove a rag up her tailpipe for no apparent reason before taking off on foot.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey Bill. I don't think anyone stalled Maura's car with an intention to kill her. I think it's possible Maura stalled it herself by putting the rag up there like her dad says he told her to do.
I am not familiar with cars, so last time we all had this debate on the forum about if it's possible to stall a car with a rag, I asked two professional mechanics to get their opinions. They both said it is possible to stall her Saturn that way. However, one way very adamant that if she had the rag up her tailpipe for that whole drive that it would have either stalled or fallen out (depending on how the rag was placed) long before the WB crash scene.
In other words, for this stall to have happened, she would have had to have made a stop somewhere nearer to the WB and put the rag in at that time -- perhaps because her car was smoking, and this is what her father told her to do if her car was smoking.
This scenario sounds more sensible to me than a woman who is trying to flee the scene of a DUI taking the time to shove a rag up her tailpipe for no apparent reason before taking off on foot.

My thoughts exactly. She had a full tank of gas, so she could have easily refilled the tank and then placed the rag there to have the car stop smoking and not to attract attention to herself.

Oh boy, I am giddy with excitement! All the cool kids are back, booby jenkins, aftermass, shack, everyone back posting absurd theories with absolutely ZERO supporting facts.

Throw in amy and lighthouse, who gives the the 'krazykrew' a renewed platform to spew lies, speculation embellishments, and NOTHING is more entertaining than this dynamic!!

Yep, the band is back together and I can't wait to see what ridiculousness ole "possum jenkins and the crazytones" comes up with this time! Wooohooo!

Good times are back on Topix.

FrmLE wrote:

Oh boy, I am giddy with excitement! All the cool kids are back, booby jenkins, aftermass, shack, everyone back posting absurd theories with absolutely ZERO supporting facts.
Throw in amy and lighthouse, who gives the the 'krazykrew' a renewed platform to spew lies, speculation embellishments, and NOTHING is more entertaining than this dynamic!!
Yep, the band is back together and I can't wait to see what ridiculousness ole "possum jenkins and the crazytones" comes up with this time! Wooohooo!
Good times are back on Topix.

Can you comment if LE found an actual "car kit" for MM to make quick immediate repairs?

Why do you find it not the least bit odd that a rag was shoved up the exhaust of missing girls exhaust pipe?

FrmLE wrote:

Oh boy, I am giddy with excitement! All the cool kids are back, booby jenkins, aftermass, shack, everyone back posting absurd theories with absolutely ZERO supporting facts.
Throw in amy and lighthouse, who gives the the 'krazykrew' a renewed platform to spew lies, speculation embellishments, and NOTHING is more entertaining than this dynamic!!
Yep, the band is back together and I can't wait to see what ridiculousness ole "possum jenkins and the crazytones" comes up with this time! Wooohooo!
Good times are back on Topix.

It's hard to find good entertainment these days at a reasonable price, so I'm glad we could help.

Would you mind enlightening us about what LE's conclusions were on the rag? You were very helpful in answering questions in the past, but I don't remember seeing an answer from you about the rag.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

<quoted text>
The Linda Salamone call is another example that makes me scratch my head. Sharon had access to MM's phone records because she paid for the phone. Why didn't they call the numbers on the phone bill the day she went missing?
There are so many small inconsistent comments and actions that go against any reasonable logic.

Hello there Lighthouse.

It may have taken close to a month for Sharon to get her cellphone activity records back in 2004. Police would have fast access, but for some reason they did not feel the need to call some of these numbers. I think at some point Sharon was frustrated with the investigation and began calling numbers herself.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey Bill. I don't think anyone stalled Maura's car with an intention to kill her. I think it's possible Maura stalled it herself by putting the rag up there like her dad says he told her to do.
I am not familiar with cars, so last time we all had this debate on the forum about if it's possible to stall a car with a rag, I asked two professional mechanics to get their opinions. They both said it is possible to stall her Saturn that way. However, one way very adamant that if she had the rag up her tailpipe for that whole drive that it would have either stalled or fallen out (depending on how the rag was placed) long before the WB crash scene.
In other words, for this stall to have happened, she would have had to have made a stop somewhere nearer to the WB and put the rag in at that time -- perhaps because her car was smoking, and this is what her father told her to do if her car was smoking.
This scenario sounds more sensible to me than a woman who is trying to flee the scene of a DUI taking the time to shove a rag up her tailpipe for no apparent reason before taking off on foot.

I have heard some mechanics say it can be done but none of them have tried it. You really need to try it. It cannot be done. Unless the car is off and you hammer, with a broomstick, so many rags that its like concrete.

We have some people saying that the rag was hanging out of the muffler and others saying that it was placed deep in the muffler. They can't both be right and if the rag was placed deep in the muffler, it wasn't enough to make the cars stall if she was driving around like that and the crash dislodged it and it appeared at the end of the muffler. So it didn't effect her driving to get to that spot, so it doesn't matter. If someone put it in the muffler after the crash, then again, it still doesn't matter.

What people need to try is start their car, let the muffler and the entire undercarriage get good and hot after a two hour drive and then attempt to push a rag up the cars exhaust. See what happens, how successfully that works out.

Not speaking specifically to you Amy, just in generalities. I just don't see how this rag has anything to do with this case. If there even was one? If someone could point me to the document that talks about who found the rag and when?

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>

Not speaking specifically to you Amy, just in generalities. I just don't see how this rag has anything to do with this case. If there even was one? If someone could point me to the document that talks about who found the rag and when?
Bill

Bill, in the Grafton County Sheriff logs it says "Needs BOL on Maura Murray. Apparently this individual was involved in an MVC yesterday in Haverhill. Upon officers arrival, found the car, no driver with a rag stuffed in the tail pipe."
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7_atAFvowRhS...
Page 23

Hey wth- who exactly said that the rag was hanging out the end of the muffler? As far as I know everyone who was on scene and actually saw the car in its original condition describe the rag as being stuffed way up there.

Are you en expert on automobiles? Are you a mechanic as well as an engineer/sar expert?
It's interesting that you, an anonymous Internet poster, say its impossible for a rag to stall a car; and you expect what your saying to be taken as fact.
But then we have a couple really experienced mechanics who have spoken on record about the matter who directly contradict what you say..why should we believe what your saying? I'm sorry but I'm gonna believe an expert thats speaking on record over some random Internet poster who could be anyone.
The fact of the matter is that a rag could theoretically be used to disable an engine, that doesn't necessarily mean it was done in this case but the fact that she is missing and a rag was found in her muffler warrants a closer look, do you not agree with that statement?

Hi, I'm new to this forum (though I've been closely following the MM case for quite some time)... A few thoughts:

Regarding the rag in the tailpipe -- First of all, at the accident scene, I doubt that LE looked in the tailpipe because they suspected that something was up. The officer probably knelt down with his flashlight to look under the car, and in doing so, noticed something inside the tailpipe (which, as someone mentioned above, would have been easy to see with a flashlight in the dark). It makes perfect sense that LE would've knelt down with a flashlight to look under the car, because that could be a likely hiding spot for someone at an accident scene who is trying to evade police.

The most plausible explanation, in my opinion, is that FM advised Maura to put the rag in the tailpipe to prevent the car from smoking (whether it was good advice or not), and she did so at some point along her journey -- perhaps to thwart attention (if she was trying to stay under the radar). I don't regard the rag as a very meaningful detail in the case, other than it might have caused her car to stall and triggered an accident.

I've personally come to believe that Maura left of her own free will, probably in tandem with another individual. There are LOTS and LOTS of serious factors that may have triggered her to willingly disappear.

just me wrote:

<quoted text>
Hello there Lighthouse.
It may have taken close to a month for Sharon to get her cellphone activity records back in 2004. Police would have fast access, but for some reason they did not feel the need to call some of these numbers. I think at some point Sharon was frustrated with the investigation and began calling numbers herself.

Were people able to look up the calls made on their account online back in 2004? I know now you can look it up the same day.

The fact that the condo owners were never notified by police proves that police did not deem it a neccessary step. They likely uncovered things on maura's computer (that have never been publically released) to lead them to other conclusions that would make contacting the condo owners irrelevant.

The fact there has been no body recovery to date is likely the only reason they (police) have not come forward to the public with what they believe they know about maura. Also the same reason, they won't let fred in on anything, because he would turn it against them and threaten a law suit.

So instead, they (police) hide behind the fictitious premise that they are investigating foul play involving maura and releasing info might damage their investigation.

elphalba wrote:

<quoted text>
Were people able to look up the calls made on their account online back in 2004? I know now you can look it up the same day.

I know I couldn't see my cell records until the next billing cycle, and they did not offer that online. I was with Verizon, but Sprint could be different I suppose. One time, I really, really needed a phone number that I knew I could find on my statement. I called Verizon and was told no. I had to wait.
Sharon might have been able to swing a quicker statement with proof Maura was missing (proof from the police) and she desparately needed the records.
But still, Sharon really thought the police were open and ready to look into all this. I wonder if she gave her statement or a copy of it to the PI's?

Orko Kringer wrote:

The fact that the condo owners were never notified by police proves that police did not deem it a neccessary step. They likely uncovered things on maura's computer (that have never been publically released) to lead them to other conclusions that would make contacting the condo owners irrelevant.
The fact there has been no body recovery to date is likely the only reason they (police) have not come forward to the public with what they believe they know about maura. Also the same reason, they won't let fred in on anything, because he would turn it against them and threaten a law suit.
So instead, they (police) hide behind the fictitious premise that they are investigating foul play involving maura and releasing info might damage their investigation.

I got the impression the state was trying to keep ALL cases like this from being handed over to the general public. I'm not downplaying anything here, but really, think of the implications if Fred would have won his case? That would pave the way for others to do the same thing. My impression is that if it goes from public records to a police investigation, it has to be protected. You could have a point, that Fred could twist things around, find fault and sue. He did keep saying he wanted to know "what did your guys do" "they were my daughters last hope",(to pull her bacon out of the fire) and "all they had to do was go down the road and grab her".....he said words to this effect
Could the W-mans have been wrong to say they saw "Maura" just two minutes before police came? And did someone say they saw her walking?

Bobjenkins-og wrote:

The fact of the matter is that a rag could theoretically be used to disable an engine...

You really should read what you write before you post it. No, the fact of the matter is that practically, not theoretically, but practically, you cannot disable a modern high compression engine in this fashion.

And, the rag is another red herring like the trailer hitch. But, as I have stated before. You are allowed to waste your time any way you see fit. Enjoy.

Bill