Maura Murray

Orko Kringer wrote:

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I disagree.
Her mind-set is likely what determined her final destination/fate.
If she truly wanted help stranded in NH, then the boogey man theory becomes very valid.
If she didn't want help, but wanted to hide out (fearing a DUI), then the succumbing to the elements theory jumps to the forefront.
If maura was depressed and had thoughts of suicide when she left for NH, then there was very little in the way of stopping her from completing that task.
I believe maura was deeply troubled by something and something that had happened to her within that five day stretch of all the bizzare events and behaviors that took place that started with that thursday night she was on security monitor duty.

Thank you for explaining. I think I see where you are coming from now.

I think if you are looking for evidence that she might have been depressed, then I think the things we already know (such as credit card fraud and crashing her father's car) would be enough to lend support to the theory that she might have been depressed. We also don't know the extent of what problems she might have been having with her boyfriend, and who knows what else was going on in her life. If in fact she did hit a pedestrian, that would certainly amp things up. But I don't think it is necessary to associate her with the Vasi hit in order to theorize that she might have been upset.

Even Mr. Murray, in his statement to police, said Maura was whimpering and said "this is the worst" and that "she was feeling bad because she let me down". http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/03/polic...

Think what her reaction could be to getting into another wreck a few days later and facing a possible DUI on top of what we already know.

I don't think it is a stretch to say that Maura might have been feeling suicidal at that point. Whether or not suicide is in fact what happened, we still have no way of knowing, but I think it's an equally possible theory with or without a Vasi connection.

WTH-the-original wrote:

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Hi Amy. I have no idea what that means. A reliable dog doesn't "hit" on things that shouldn't be hit on. If it does hit on things that aren't what they are looking for, how reliable is the dog and/or the handler? To further complicate matters, was the news article written by someone who misinterpreted what was told to them?
So the short answer is I don't know what that means. Reliable dogs, don't often, if ever, hit on things that aren't there or make mistakes. And mistakes from what I have seen are usually attributed to misinterpretations by the handler of the dogs actions. So we are still left with questions of how reliable the search, the dogs, and teams were. Or can it simply be chalked up to a misquote in the news report?
Sorry, I know that isn't a lot of help but it is accurate as far as I have seen. Like so much of this case, there is a large amount of grey area material.
Bill

Thanks, Bill. Not knowing anything about SAR, my thoughts were that anything a dog "hit" on would be worth handing over to police. But I thought maybe I was wrong about that.

amy researches wrote:

<quoted text>Think what her reaction could be to getting into another wreck a few days later and facing a possible DUI on top of what we already know.
I don't think it is a stretch to say that Maura might have been feeling suicidal at that point. Whether or not suicide is in fact what happened, we still have no way of knowing, but I think it's an equally possible theory with or without a Vasi connection.

I hate to keep saying this Amy, but again, BINGO!

Imagine her reaction. A young lady struggling with several issues already. If she wasn't suicidal before, imagine how she felt when everything she was now attempting to do, this getaway to clear her mind, as it were, she just saw go swirling down the shitter because of this accident while she was drinking.

Bill

amy researches wrote:

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Thank you for explaining. I think I see where you are coming from now.
I think if you are looking for evidence that she might have been depressed, then I think the things we already know (such as credit card fraud and crashing her father's car) would be enough to lend support to the theory that she might have been depressed. We also don't know the extent of what problems she might have been having with her boyfriend, and who knows what else was going on in her life. If in fact she did hit a pedestrian, that would certainly amp things up. But I don't think it is necessary to associate her with the Vasi hit in order to theorize that she might have been upset.
Even Mr. Murray, in his statement to police, said Maura was whimpering and said "this is the worst" and that "she was feeling bad because she let me down". http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/2012/03/polic...
Think what her reaction could be to getting into another wreck a few days later and facing a possible DUI on top of what we already know.
I don't think it is a stretch to say that Maura might have been feeling suicidal at that point. Whether or not suicide is in fact what happened, we still have no way of knowing, but I think it's an equally possible theory with or without a Vasi connection.

A little deeper than that though.

Maura uncharacteristically had two wrecks in the span of 48 hours.

Maura told several lies in that same span (you can argue the degree of the fibbing, however, nonetheless they are fibs.

1. lied to her supervisor (told her she had a roommate and would not need her to take her to her room

2. lied to her friends at the dorm get together (told them she was going to her room and to bed, when really she was getting out in her father's new car at 3:30 in the morning and heading for his hotel).

3. Lied to her university/jobs ---sending them an email declaring a death in the family when there wasn't one.

Maura had two car wrecks and was telling a slew of fibs not to mention her meltdown at work (read up ambulance bill) which as her supervisor desribed was a lot more disturbing then just some college student having a bad night.

the days and weeks before that thursday night meltdown, we hear nothing unusual about maura. she was gearing up to go see dane cook with her friends.

Maura talked to her sister earlier that thursday night and her sister swears that everything was fine at that point.

So from the time maura hung up the phone with her older sister 10:38 p.m. is about the starting point for when things began snowballing out of control for maura (work meltdown, two car wrecks, drikning and driving, disappearing).

This is what I believe is pretty likely to have happened:
*Maura may likely have been experiencing an increasingly troublesome addiction to alcohol for some time.
*She likely had a second, "unofficial" boyfriend in the Amherst/Hadley,MA, area at the time of her disappearance.
*She was busted for CC fraud by LE.
*She may have been suffering from bulimia or anorexia nervosa or something similar.
*She herself or a close friend of hers (possibly her likely Amherst/Hadley boyfriend) might have been involved in the Vasi hit-and-run case, driving Maura´s Saturn.
*She might have been pregnant (according to James Renner she had been doing Internet searches regarding the effects of alcohol consumtion on an unborn child).
*I think it more than possible that Maura and her likely Amherst/Hadley boyfriend drove in tandem in separate cars from MA to NH, Maura driving the Saturn and the boyfriend a red truck with MA plates (as seen in Swiftwater by witness RO).
*After Maura´s sudden crash on Rte 112 in NH, she knows that her boyfriend should be coming along any minute, refusing the offer of assistance by the SBD.
*The red truck comes along to pick Maura up near her wrecked car a few minutes before the arrival of Haverhill PD Officer Cecil Smith.(Witness RO observed the MA-plated red truck driving away on Rte 112 East towards Maura´s accident spot before she saw the first LE vehicle heading in the same direction).

Now, even if my theory regarding the likely events would somehow be proven to be correct, that would still leave us with a huge question mark:

Whatever happened to Maura after she left her accident site in her likely boyfriend´s red MA-plated truck???
Even if we were able to put together exactly what happened to Maura prior to her accident on Rte 112 in NH, this would still likely not be enough to find out where she went from there.
The absence of any publicly known clues is pretty striking after 8 1/2 years. And that´s putting it mildly.

Being depressed over a credit card fraud issue that took place months before seems unlikey to me.

Maura had winter break (she was around family and friends) I am pretty sure that if the cc stuff was bothering her that much that her family and friends would've taken notice.

I am also pretty sure that if maura's older sister knew maura was deeply depressed or disturbed when she talked to maura from 10:10 to 10:38 p.m. that thursday night while maura was working the security desk, that maura's older sister would have no reason to hide that info and would know what was bothering maura. the two sisters talked every single day to one another.

But hours after her phone call to her older sister, maura has a meltdown at work, goes on to have two car wrecks (where alcohol is involved) and tells a series of fibs before disappearing off the face of the earth.

Something of a traumatic nature happened to maura after her phone call with her sister. that is not a hard conclusion to come to.

And as far as tying her to the hit and run. several newspapers have brought up the hit and run over the years. Are they just stabbing at the wind?

While I don't have the answer 100 percent that maura was involved. I do know that all of the answers given as to why she wouldn't be involved in the hit and run have either turned out to be flat wrong or weak, but never supportive of the position that she wasn't involved.

amy researches wrote:

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I don't think it is a stretch to say that Maura might have been feeling suicidal at that point. Whether or not suicide is in fact what happened, we still have no way of knowing, but I think it's an equally possible theory with or without a Vasi connection.

Actually, I would be of the opinion that she would be more suicidal if the Vasi connection was there. Not saying that she couldn't be suicidal without it, but a hit and run which injured somebody is serious business which would make me believe the suicide theory more.

However, I do think its a reach for there really isn't any evidence of a connection. I am sure a lot of unsavory things occurred in the Amherst area that week. I am sure if somebody is imaginative enough, they could link her to those as well. I think the only reason the Vasi Connection is even thought of is becasue it involves a car. And because of the nature of Maura's Disappearance with a car involved and her previosu accident, it is natural for some to grasp on to anything car related. I guess it is linear thinking of sorts, which seems to be how many prefer to think. But you need much more than that to even seriously consider the Vasi connection IMHO.

elphalba wrote:

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Actually, I would be of the opinion that she would be more suicidal if the Vasi connection was there. Not saying that she couldn't be suicidal without it, but a hit and run which injured somebody is serious business which would make me believe the suicide theory more.
However, I do think its a reach for there really isn't any evidence of a connection. I am sure a lot of unsavory things occurred in the Amherst area that week. I am sure if somebody is imaginative enough, they could link her to those as well. I think the only reason the Vasi Connection is even thought of is becasue it involves a car. And because of the nature of Maura's Disappearance with a car involved and her previosu accident, it is natural for some to grasp on to anything car related. I guess it is linear thinking of sorts, which seems to be how many prefer to think. But you need much more than that to even seriously consider the Vasi connection IMHO.

how about happening less than a mile from where maura worked.

how about maura's meltdown at work lining up perfectly with someone who had just been in a hit and run accident. as she was found in a zombie-like state less than 45 minutes after vasi was found laying in the road 0.9 miles away.

While all of that is indeed circumstantial, it has obviously drawn the attention of the media to a possible connection.

And I would argue that all attempts (by media) to date to discredit maura as being involved, have been proven to be wrong from a FACTUAL standpoint. So it doesn't mean maura was involved but it does mean that this possible connection between maura and the hit and run is not a dead issue.

Orko Kringer wrote:

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how about happening less than a mile from where maura worked.
how about maura's meltdown at work lining up perfectly with someone who had just been in a hit and run accident. as she was found in a zombie-like state less than 45 minutes after vasi was found laying in the road 0.9 miles away.
While all of that is indeed circumstantial, it has obviously drawn the attention of the media to a possible connection.
And I would argue that all attempts (by media) to date to discredit maura as being involved, have been proven to be wrong from a FACTUAL standpoint. So it doesn't mean maura was involved but it does mean that this possible connection between maura and the hit and run is not a dead issue.

Yup, it is a possibility, I just happen to find it remote. As far as media looking into it, well, its the media and a case this cold, they are more than likely grasping at straws. That being said, that is simply my opinion and think if people are intrigued by the possibility they have every right to be as well should write about that here without being chastised.

Orko Kringer wrote:

Basically something is not adding up correctly.
We learn about this hit and run and the possible link to maura, but we hear from published reports that maura is likely not involved because:
1. the hit and run incident happened miles away.
FALSE -- the hit and run took place less than a mile from where maura is working
2. Maura was working, therefore she had no opportunity to leave her desk.
FALSE AGAIN - Maura does get breaks (not break) but breaks during her Thursday shift that ran from 8 p.m. to 2 a.m.
So the main two points to dismiss maura's possible involvement are both PROVEN to be dis-credited points.
Therefore, how can anyone dismiss the link.

Brilliant. There's an irrefutable equation: 1)The hit and run took place LESS THAN A MILE from where Maura worked + 2) Maura had breaks on her job = the hit and run MUST have been Maura

sophie bean wrote:

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Brilliant. There's an irrefutable equation: 1)The hit and run took place LESS THAN A MILE from where Maura worked + 2) Maura had breaks on her job = the hit and run MUST have been Maura

apparently hooked on phonics never worked for you.

I have NEVER said it was a fact that maura was involved.
I have discussed maura's circumstances and the circumstances that have been reported concerning the hit and run and have mentioned that it is worth looking into both to see if there is a relation.

Newspapers have already done that and concluded that they doubt it had anything to do with maura.

But every report I have read about it has contained factually incorrect information that was used to come to their conclusion.

I am pointing out the factually wrong parts and saying that no this is not a decided issue or a done deal.

orko dink is my NEW Favorite topix member. He has replaced booby jenkins as the crazy conspiracy theorist that we all love. Add soe ridiculous lies, sprinkle in some spin, flavor with a heaping does of embellishment, and Viola! Good Stuff.

He also posts very similiarly to ole booby, kinda makes me wonder.........

But anyway, regardless of who he is, I am thankful he is here. Keep doing what you are doing booby, errr I mean buddy!

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>And I would argue that all attempts (by media) to date to discredit maura as being involved, have been proven to be wrong from a FACTUAL standpoint. So it doesn't mean maura was involved but it does mean that this possible connection between maura and the hit and run is not a dead issue.

And here we are again with someone who doesn't understand any of the basics of how an inquiry works. He is under the impression that everyone needs to prove that what he thinks is incorrect instead of how it really works. The way it really works is the person that puts forward a theory has the obligation to provide the supporting data.

Bill

Red truck.

amy researches wrote:

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Bill, before you go, can you help me out with something related to SAR? If someone says "the K-9 teams had several hits, but nothing that would warrant forwarding to state police" what would you interpret this as meaning? This is a quote from an old news article that I came across, and I was just curious about the possible meaning of this statement. Thanks in advance if you can help.

I´m aware your post is not directed at me, but I think I know what search you´re referring to. The cadaver dogs got hits in or by a creek IIRC, and it was said the scent was related to an older case where a body was found in the creek, and therefor not deemed relevant to the case and not forwarded to LE. Cadaver scent can be picked up for many years after a dead body has been recovered. Te scent also travels with wind, water and even tree roots, so might be picked up far away from the actual location of the body.

JWB wrote:

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Amy asked Citigirl about whether there was a flashlight in the emergency Kit and that was not answered and Citigirl opted not to say where searches were done on the Montel show so I am not sure what you are talking about when you say she is eager to give out facts.
I am not trying to turn this into a Citigirl thing because we have always gotten along well etc.. but there are many things that are guarded and I guess I can understand that to a point as we are not the one that are going to solve the case.
My feeling is this: This forum as dysfunctional as it is is really an asset to finding Maura from the point that it keeps Maura name in the forefront. I would be thankful if it were my daughter at the same time cringe as bad things are posted about character.
James Renner has been trashed by some but again, Renner keeps the ball rolling and Mauras name in the forefront. I think both of these factors keep some pressure on LE to at least think of the case and that is more than many family's of missing family can say.
We may not be able to solve the case here but we can help keep the ball rolling and when common info is withheld that has no bearing on the investigation it makes me think that I am wasting my time. Patrick M's Mother tried to get tons of info out to the public and I see this case as the polar opposite.

I try to answer questions from other posters with definite facts and not speculation.Sorry you are disappointed but I cannot answer whether or whether or not Maura had a flashlight in her vehicle. Its easy to say what you would do if it were your daughter. But remember your daughter is home safe and sound and has never been missing. Maura is not and has not been seen or heard from for over 8 years. Dont judge us for something you have never experienced. Our family is living the nightmare not you. Although we are not perfect we are trying to do our best for Maura.

hannah_b wrote:

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I´m aware your post is not directed at me, but I think I know what search you´re referring to. The cadaver dogs got hits in or by a creek IIRC, and it was said the scent was related to an older case where a body was found in the creek, and therefor not deemed relevant to the case and not forwarded to LE. Cadaver scent can be picked up for many years after a dead body has been recovered. Te scent also travels with wind, water and even tree roots, so might be picked up far away from the actual location of the body.

Not that she needs verification from me but this makes perfect sense and is totally possible. This means that it might not have been a false positive but a real positive but as reported not related.

Thanks for contributing here hannah. I was trying to remember who did K9 and couldn't remember if it was you.

Bill

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>I try to answer questions from other posters with definite facts and not speculation.Sorry you are disappointed but I cannot answer whether or whether or not Maura had a flashlight in her vehicle. Its easy to say what you would do if it were your daughter. But remember your daughter is home safe and sound and has never been missing. Maura is not and has not been seen or heard from for over 8 years. Dont judge us for something you have never experienced. Our family is living the nightmare not you. Although we are not perfect we are trying to do our best for Maura.

Citigirl,
Do you see this forum as anything useful in the search for what happened to Maura?

FrmLE wrote:

orko dink is my NEW Favorite topix member. He has replaced booby jenkins as the crazy conspiracy theorist that we all love. Add soe ridiculous lies, sprinkle in some spin, flavor with a heaping does of embellishment, and Viola! Good Stuff.
He also posts very similiarly to ole booby, kinda makes me wonder.........
But anyway, regardless of who he is, I am thankful he is here. Keep doing what you are doing booby, errr I mean buddy!

Good one "former LE" ... Yeah right.

I will leave you and your idol ambulance bill to your own devices.

You two go back to playing find the snake under the covers. It might take both of you a long while, but keep trying.

JWB wrote:

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Citigirl,
Do you see this forum as anything useful in the search for what happened to Maura?

Oh JWB how can you ask such a question? I mean look at the pool of talent gathered here? There are so many people here with such a diverse collection of fantastic stories to be told.

Bill