Maura Murray

Advocator wrote:

<quoted text>
Tell you what ... put your money where your mouth is and post your real name and birth date on here. Go ahead. Since you don't think it is "that big of a deal", you shouldn't have any problem doing so, right?

Most respectfully, Advocator, I don't think one can equate Beagle with the typical Topix poster. While I agree that your average, run-of-the-mill poster should have a (relative) expectation of privacy (in that, they don't have to worry about their DOB and full name being outed)...your typical poster also didn't go to the extreme lengths to be noticed that Beagle did.

I think Snowy said it best, above - what he did was 'too much', and he got a commensurate level of attention from Renner.

I don't know that it's fair to compare Beagle to Jenkins.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

<quoted text>
Most respectfully, Advocator, I don't think one can equate Beagle with the typical Topix poster.

Where is the line? Isn't it Jenkins who said many times that Bruce McKay deserved to be shot in the back then run over several times until he was dead? Wasn't that Jenkins who said that? The same jenkins who has claimed (lied) he is himself a law enforcement officer? A 'federal agent"?

What if Bruce's family read that, what about his daughter? Would they feel that is less severe than posting obscure You tube videos?

So cowboy up jenkins, put your money where your big mouth is. What is your real name?

This is somewhat off-topic, but I think can be, tangentially, connected to this case in that it covers the mass hysteria common when tragedies occur.

A Northwestern University sophomore went missing from Wilmette, a suburb of Chicago, after a party. As I've mentioned previously in this thread, I work for the County of Crook - er, I mean, Cook, and rumors at work (and on the El, to and from work) were rife with 'oh he was killed!''It must've been a drug vendetta.'
'It was gangbangers.'

Wilmette is a high-end suburb. There is absolutely NO active gang activity in that area. And the cold reality of the case, is that he went out, got drunk, had diabetes, and was wandering home near the LAKE....and drowned.

Tragic. Truly. He was a very loved, gifted young man - and his family has been quoted wanting a deeper investigation into the circumstances surrounding his unfortunate ACCIDENTAL death. They obviously (and understandably) have a hard time accepting that it was a fatal accident.

Sometimes, it's hard to see the truth. Sometimes, it's easier to gloss over the tidbits of truth that we DO have, and instead cling to the teeny, tiny kernels of unknowns - and hope like hell that there is someone to blame, someone who knows.

I don't fault anyone for wanting to think that. But reality must set in, eventually.

I hope.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/harsha-maddula-north...

Google 'harsha maddula' if link above doesn't work.

An old post, oldie but goodie.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Thats another reason I have absolutely nothing to fear from stupid beagle, if he figured out who I was and exposed me I could really care less.

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
Where is the line? Isn't it Jenkins who said many times that Bruce McKay deserved to be shot in the back then run over several times until he was dead? Wasn't that Jenkins who said that? The same jenkins who has claimed (lied) he is himself a law enforcement officer? A 'federal agent"?
What if Bruce's family read that, what about his daughter? Would they feel that is less severe than posting obscure You tube videos?
So cowboy up jenkins, put your money where your big mouth is. What is your real name?

I don't know who said that (re: McKay) but that is appalling.

My post had nothing to do with Jenkins - rather, I was pointing out that Beagle was courting this kind of attention. I agree with Wowzer - I don't think ANYONE should post their identifying information in a Topix thread. There's a lot of nutjobs, out there. I am not familiar enough with Jenkins and his posting habits to state whether or not he does the same - but I'd still recommend NOT 'outing' himself.

Amy did. Look at the hassle she got (mean emails, etc.).

FrmLE, I know you don't post your identifying information, either. From your posts, I think it's clear that you are, in fact, precisely who you claim to be - former LE. It's evident from the things you say, the information you have, AND your reticence to post anything particularly identifying. I support that decision - it's the only intelligent thing to do.

That being said, I would expect you to NOT recommend anyone outing themselves, here.

If your post was more of a jab at Jenkins, for posts you think he made that were out of line, then please ignore this post.:)

Mindy (HA! Identified!)

Wowzer the real one wrote:

I thought this was interesting even though it isn't directly about Maura. This article shows the extent that S&R goes to when a person calls for help.
http://www.unionleader.com/article/20120930/N...

Interesting story, thanks for posting it.

I am simply calling jenkins out, he has said many times he doesn't care who knows who he is.

He played the role of big man on the internet threatening beagle and whatnot. He is the one who said he is a "federal agent".

I am just asking him to clarify his position on who he is.

Jenkins, do you live in Manchester? Did you live in VT? 25 miles west of the WB curve, right?

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't know who said that (re: McKay) but that is appalling.
My post had nothing to do with Jenkins - rather,

Jenkins is the person who said that about Bruce McKay. He said that Bruce got what he deserved, that he had no problem with Kenney shooting him multiple times in the back and then driving over his body with his car several times.

That is what jenkins said, many times.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

<quoted text>
Most respectfully, Advocator, I don't think one can equate Beagle with the typical Topix poster. While I agree that your average, run-of-the-mill poster should have a (relative) expectation of privacy (in that, they don't have to worry about their DOB and full name being outed)...your typical poster also didn't go to the extreme lengths to be noticed that Beagle did.
I think Snowy said it best, above - what he did was 'too much', and he got a commensurate level of attention from Renner.
I don't know that it's fair to compare Beagle to Jenkins.

i don't believe outing someone is a healthy, reasonable, safe, productive, or justifiable solution to a slight, a perceived offense, or being in disagreement with someone.
To guard one's own identity while breaking the anonymity of another is an act of aggression; it is cowardly.
James Renner has revealed his own identity...so I would not say he's behaved cowardly; but his action to out Beagle is definitely retaliatory. He takes his chances on how Beagle may respond.
As they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenkins is the person who said that about Bruce McKay. He said that Bruce got what he deserved, that he had no problem with Kenney shooting him multiple times in the back and then driving over his body with his car several times.
That is what jenkins said, many times.

I must admit, I don't know any of the details of the McKay thing - I know he was an officer, there was some controversy over a traffic stop, etc.- regardless, I fail to see why ANYONE would suggest that he 'got what he deserved....(Kenney) shooting him multiple times....driving over his body.'

I hate to sound like a bleeding heart, but come ON. We are all better than that.

A forum for a missing young woman is the last place I'd expect to find such vitriol. And yet....

FrmLE wrote:

I am simply calling jenkins out, he has said many times he doesn't care who knows who he is.
He played the role of big man on the internet threatening beagle and whatnot. He is the one who said he is a "federal agent".
I am just asking him to clarify his position on who he is.
Jenkins, do you live in Manchester? Did you live in VT? 25 miles west of the WB curve, right?

I understand your point, now. I didn't follow where you were going with it, initially.

Federal agent? Interesting, that.

I wonder why there are so many of us from Illinois, on this thread.

Me, Amy, and Orko Kringer, to name a few.

Oh yeah, probably because Chicago is so crime-free compared to you East Coasters....we gotta go reallllly far to find any criminal activity.

/sarcasm

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

This is somewhat off-topic, but I think can be, tangentially, connected to this case in that it covers the mass hysteria common when tragedies occur.
A Northwestern University sophomore went missing from Wilmette, a suburb of Chicago, after a party. As I've mentioned previously in this thread, I work for the County of Crook - er, I mean, Cook, and rumors at work (and on the El, to and from work) were rife with 'oh he was killed!''It must've been a drug vendetta.'
'It was gangbangers.'
Wilmette is a high-end suburb. There is absolutely NO active gang activity in that area. And the cold reality of the case, is that he went out, got drunk, had diabetes, and was wandering home near the LAKE....and drowned.
Tragic. Truly. He was a very loved, gifted young man - and his family has been quoted wanting a deeper investigation into the circumstances surrounding his unfortunate ACCIDENTAL death. They obviously (and understandably) have a hard time accepting that it was a fatal accident.
Sometimes, it's hard to see the truth. Sometimes, it's easier to gloss over the tidbits of truth that we DO have, and instead cling to the teeny, tiny kernels of unknowns - and hope like hell that there is someone to blame, someone who knows.
I don't fault anyone for wanting to think that. But reality must set in, eventually.
I hope.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/harsha-maddula-north...
Google 'harsha maddula' if link above doesn't work.

I've been following this too. Very sad. And I feel for his family.

The denial people can be in when they lose a loved one is understandable. It's how we cope/survive I guess.

I worked with a woman about 13 years ago who slit her wrists and when that did not work then laid on the Metra tracks during morning rush hour. A clear case of suicide. There were still people close to her as well as random people in the office who insisted she was killed, saying she seemed like such a happy person. No one expected it.

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
i don't believe outing someone is a healthy, reasonable, safe, productive, or justifiable solution to a slight, a perceived offense, or being in disagreement with someone.
To guard one's own identity while breaking the anonymity of another is an act of aggression; it is cowardly.
James Renner has revealed his own identity...so I would not say he's behaved cowardly; but his action to out Beagle is definitely retaliatory. He takes his chances on how Beagle may respond.
As they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

I agree.

Maruchan wrote:

Bill, I've written three posts that haven't shown up - maybe it's because of the link. As I said in the missing posts, I am not trying to prove you wrong, just updating you.
Anyway, Russell Bussiere, the man who was missing in Hooksett, was found in April 2008:
"The body of Russell Bussiere, the 70-year old Hooksett, N.H., hunter last seen at Bear Brook State Park last December was found on April 27 approximately 30 feet off a trail located in "the reservoir" area, and only a quarter mile from his truck, according to an article by the Union Leader.
"It looks like he sat down and had a health condition and passed away right there," Fish and Game Lt. Kevin Jordan said. He said there was no evidence of anything suspicious.
Bussiere had been hunting in the park on Dec. 2 with his son Michael. The two men were communicating via two-way radio and made plans to meet around noon. The elder Bussiere never showed up.
A massive group of searchers involving hundreds of volunteers combed a 10-mile radius of the area, but nearly a foot of snow fell the night Bussiere was last seen. After the formal search was called off, volunteers and Fish and Game officers continued searching the woods all winter. The family described Bussiere as an avid outdoorsman who had hunted in Bear Brook State Park for 50 years."

I appreciate you posting this. I had looked and found nothing indicating he was found. Glad the family got some closure.

Bill

FWIW:

Renner has now put a line through the word abduction in his recent post when talking about beagle and maura's disappearance.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

This is somewhat off-topic, but I think can be, tangentially, connected to this case in that it covers the mass hysteria common when tragedies occur.
A Northwestern University sophomore went missing from Wilmette, a suburb of Chicago, after a party. As I've mentioned previously in this thread, I work for the County of Crook - er, I mean, Cook, and rumors at work (and on the El, to and from work) were rife with 'oh he was killed!''It must've been a drug vendetta.'
'It was gangbangers.'
Wilmette is a high-end suburb. There is absolutely NO active gang activity in that area. And the cold reality of the case, is that he went out, got drunk, had diabetes, and was wandering home near the LAKE....and drowned.
Tragic. Truly. He was a very loved, gifted young man - and his family has been quoted wanting a deeper investigation into the circumstances surrounding his unfortunate ACCIDENTAL death. They obviously (and understandably) have a hard time accepting that it was a fatal accident.
Sometimes, it's hard to see the truth. Sometimes, it's easier to gloss over the tidbits of truth that we DO have, and instead cling to the teeny, tiny kernels of unknowns - and hope like hell that there is someone to blame, someone who knows.
I don't fault anyone for wanting to think that. But reality must set in, eventually.
I hope.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/harsha-maddula-north...
Google 'harsha maddula' if link above doesn't work.

This is as sad as it is very common. I remember another student in VT who after getting drunk, drowned in a nearby creek. Many people wanted to believe boogie men that they called the smiley faced killer. It is easier for parents to believe in boogie men, rather than their child made bad choices.

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com...

Bill

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>

My story has never changed, however I admit I .
Perhaps you too should be less specific about who you are? I mean jesus christ, you have given so much info I found out exactly who you are so long ago it's not even funny.
<quoted text>

Damn fakeLE, sounds like you really wanna know who I am.
So then what's up with this post you made a few months ago? Thought you already figured out who I was so Long ago it's not even funny. Lol

Obviously there's a huge difference between someone who makes videos taunting the family of a missing, & quite possibly murdered, young girl and some random poster on topix.
I clearly said that I don't think it is the right thing to do, and I've never been one for using people's real names, or even initials, I was comparing it to what is said in the media; where they always use people's real names. People's names are used in the media all the time. Sbd is a prime example, nobody outed his name on the Internet, that was done in the newspaper early on. Are we not worried about the same nuts finding someone if their name is mentioned on tv? How is it any different, except for the fact that these blogs have a fraction of the viewers as tv. I was thinking beagle was lucky he didn't get his real name said on nancy Grace after posting those videos. I really thought that could very well happen.
Do you guys have the same problem with nancy grace using people's names? I kind of think it's unfair to use anybody's real name in any media until they're convicted of a crime, but that's just me. Society has seemed to determine that it's ok to put people's real names out there If they're suspected of a crime, and even If they're related to a news story. Beagle fully opened himself up to all of that when he posted those videos that not only inserted him into the middle of the case, they also seemed to imply that he had inside info on the case and was probably the killer. The Bretton woods pass is directly implying he is the killer, the "black eye" video and even the zig-zag with numbers video seems to imply that he knows something about this others do not. He is an intelligent individual, he had to expect a lot of attention from implying he could be Maura's killer.
He must have expected people were going to try to figure out who he really was.
what im saying is that once you insert yourself into the middle of a news story, especially one about a missing or murdered person, you have to expect that there's a possibility your names gonna be outed.

I was literally asking the question: is it that big of a deal. And you guys make some really good points about it IMO, it does kind of seem like a big deal when you say it like that. But why isn't it a big deal that the media does it ?

just me wrote:

<quoted text>
The way I understand it is that Maura did a fast spin out and landed in the ditch. Before she moved her car, she was ass end against the trees, or very close to them when the W's looked out and saw the car. She was FACING them. I don't think she could hit a tree and spinout at the same time down in the ditch with ALL THAT SNOW>. Do you see what I mean?
She had to have hit something first,(perhaps that snowbank she sheared off), and then spiraled out of control.

Hi Just Me - IMHO the only way the scenio works is if you take out the comment about hitting the trees. Coming to rest in the EB lane next to them Yes, but not actually hitting them. If you look at the WMUR video @:18 it looks like they are trying to show the entire area of the accident. The sheered snowbank Mr Guy spoke about on the wB side and lower down on the EB side of 112 the tire tracks. As Maurachan said the video was taken 3 days after the accident. Tues & Wed were sunny and warm 35-36F, thur was a little cooler IIRC so the snow melt makes it harder to see the details. If the veh hit a patch of black ice coming around the corner the counter clockwise spin could have sent the front left corner into the snowbank in front of the Westmans home near the raised berm & pole. The berm could have kept the vehicle from hitting the pole.IIRC from Orko's photo, as it dips down, there's a stone wall or stones for a flower bed right there too. This could account for the direct impact damage LFQ & light.There might be scratching onlong the left dirvers side, hard to tell in the photos Looks like a couple dents on the drivers door below the window in the center. Scratches all along the front & rear bumpers. The snowbank mixed with road salt & sand could have caused that.

No disrespect to anyone here, but people keep making reference to the quantity of snow & really high snowbanks etc. There was very little snowfall in the beginning of 2004. When viewing the WMUR video, looking directly at the WB the pile in front is a combination of snow shed off the roof of the barn & plowing. The photo further down the road is at an odd angle at the bottom of a hill which is deceiving. Across the street would have been from plowing the driveway. As a native who drives in it, day in & day out (interstate, highways, class IV & V roads) the bigger the snowbank the better. In really bad freezing rain or blizzrd it helps to keep it between the ditches.

If anyone wants to know what the weather was try contacting Mark Breen from the Fairbanks Planitarium in St Johsnbury VT. http://www. fairbanksmuseum. org/ He's the local weather guru. Most of the statistics found online at the national weather center about our region come from him. He has weather observers scattered around the Northeast Kingdom & may even have or know of some in or around Haverhill.

Hi Shack and all thanks for the heads up the EMS call to Bunga Rd but coming from the log who knowsif there werer other calls.StiLl wondering how JKM knew RO and who else was living on Bunga rd at the time.