Maura Murray

I think I was the first to lose patience with Jenkins' lengthy posts and came down really hard on his repetition of ideas. What can I say except "I told you so"?

Snowy

amy researches wrote:

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Ok you've twisted my arm. I'll stop poking nails into trees. Now I guess I'll have to find a new hobby.

Thanks. 8-)

Seriously though. People who spike trees, on purpose or without thinking can really hurt people who are just doing their jobs not knowing that a booby trap is in tee tree. And that can be months or years or decades later.

Bill

amy researches wrote:

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Topic recovery is a real pain. Whether you're knee deep in it or detoxing/going through withdrawal symptoms, the debilitating side effects are the same. I'm 99% sure on that fact. ;-)

And here we are.
Note: I just entered "Detoxing Topix" as the post name, and red letters alerted "This name is unavailable. Please choose another." Ditto for "Topix Detox". LOL Does this not say it all?

Snowy

amy researches wrote:

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Promise to appear is a “personal recognizance" used in many states and is usually for a first-time minor offense and/or if the person is not a flight risk. I would assume this would be used in Maura's case, wouldn't you?

The only thing I find of note in regards to her arrest is that she was (per Renner's blog entry) arrested at her dorm, and not taken into the station and formally booked.

I would imagine she would get a recog/promise to appear bond - but I would also have thought they'd have taken her into the station, formally booked her, and THEN released her.

It was odd, how they took her photo at the dorm, instead of at the station.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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Go back and read my post again. I didn't say that there were posters on the trees (except the ribbon tree).
I said if you want to put a poster on a tree it's a good idea to ask permission from the person that owns the land that the tree is on. Notice the word IF.
As an experiment why don't you go for a walk with a hammer and some nails and nail some signs to your neighbors trees.Don't tell them that you're going to do it though. Then come back here (if you're able) and let us know the outcome. I'm curious to see if your neighbors will think it's of no concern.

No you completely misunderstood what I said there. Obviously putting nails into trees is of some concern, it can kill the tree and potentially someone using a chainsaw like bill described.

What I said is that considering the fact that no trees have had anything nailed to them yet I don't think anyone needs to be very concerned or worried that people are going to go out and nail posters to trees. It hasn't happened yet so why are we worried about it now?

I wasn't saying to go out and nail posters onto trees and don't worry about it it's no big deal, & yes I can see people getting pissed if someone was nailing trees in their front yard. Obviously nails in trees can be a concern, but I don't think anyone needs to be very concerned about it actually happening, since it hasn't happened yet that I'm aware of. The ribbon tree is the only tree in aware of with anything on it and they used staples on it. Everything else was on telephone poles.

Simply- unless that info came from an official document, rather than a post written by Renner based on his own possibly incorrect conjecture, I am skeptical as to whether that's actually what happened.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

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The only thing I find of note in regards to her arrest is that she was (per Renner's blog entry) arrested at her dorm, and not taken into the station and formally booked.
I would imagine she would get a recog/promise to appear bond - but I would also have thought they'd have taken her into the station, formally booked her, and THEN released her.
It was odd, how they took her photo at the dorm, instead of at the station.

You're the lawyer, Simply, but I don't believe the photo was taken at the dorm. If you look at "mugshots", many have painted cinder blocks as a background, just as her picture shows.

Snowy

Live and Learn wrote:

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First time I ever heard this one, Wowzer. I've nailed wrought iron hangers for bird feeders and plants into trees....oops.
Snowy

I lost a beautiful Maple tree a few years ago because we shot into it with a 22.(Don't ask).
It opened it up to desease. While it took years for it to fully die it finally did. It also didn't help to have the sap running out of it.
Even more important though is what Bill mentioned about chain saw. Very dangerous if the chainsaw hits the nail.

Bobjenkins-OG wrote:

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No you completely misunderstood what I said there. Obviously putting nails into trees is of some concern, it can kill the tree and potentially someone using a chainsaw like bill described.
What I said is that considering the fact that no trees have had anything nailed to them yet I don't think anyone needs to be very concerned or worried that people are going to go out and nail posters to trees. It hasn't happened yet so why are we worried about it now?
I wasn't saying to go out and nail posters onto trees and don't worry about it it's no big deal, & yes I can see people getting pissed if someone was nailing trees in their front yard. Obviously nails in trees can be a concern, but I don't think anyone needs to be very concerned about it actually happening, since it hasn't happened yet that I'm aware of. The ribbon tree is the only tree in aware of with anything on it and they used staples on it. Everything else was on telephone poles.

When was the last time you saw the ribbon tree? Today when I drove by it sure as hell looked like it had two nails holding it on the tree.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

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I'm not familiar w/ a promise to appear - I'm assuming that's like a Personal Recognizance Bond (what we have here)/ also called an 'I' bond. Interesting that she was let go with just a promise to appear - is that common?
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I think any of the above are potential possibilities. Therein lies the rub of this whole case.

A promise to appear is the same thing as personal recognizance. No cash bail, but they still put conditions on it, like staying away from drugs and alcohol and not getting arrested for anything. This would be very common or a first time arrest on a misdemeanor. Mass is different than most states in that they don't have bail bondsmen, so bails are generally lower but they are rather strict with their conditions. When she filled out her PTA slip she would've been warned that if she got arrested again while out on the PTA her bail would've been revoked for 60 days. Meaning she wouldve had to sit in jail for 60 days following an arrest. That could be another reason she was scared of the cops, maybe she thought if she got a DUI she would've got sent to jail for 60 days too, along with the other repercussions.
My point about the woods is that there was 2.5' of snow on the ground and she was wearing jeans and sneakers. Walking into those woods right then would've been extremely difficult for her and she would've been freezing cold sinking down into the deep snow and having her sneakers and jeans packed full of snow. It would have been hell.
Also the woods would've been a TERRIBLE spot to hide. She would've left a blatant, easy to follow trail and she would've known that. You can't just walk into 2.5' of snow and not leave a giant path that anyone could follow easily.
When you combine that with the fact that the dog lost her trail abruptly after 100' then it starts to paint a picture.
I agree with what your saying about someone she knew picking her up. If you read what the witnesses said the one thing she didn't sound very worried about was finding a ride. If she was up there alone shouldn't she have been worried about how she was gonna get where she was going? It sounds like she got her stuff together and waited for her ride to come along. she could've just been confident she'd have no problem flagging down a ride, but it sounds like she might've known a ride was coming. Also there was the red truck with mass plates that was looking for someone specific. If it looks like she might've been expecting a ride, and there's also someone in the area that's looking for someone walking on the road, it seems logical to think those two things may be connected.
But your completely right, there are a few distinct possibilities that are all potentially possible an make sense in their own way. My only thing is that to me it looks very unlikely she would've entered the woods in those conditions, she would've made it far into the woods in those conditions and that no one could find her trail in those conditions, which was 2.5' of light fluffy snow that was "perfect for tracking" according to LE.

Is that the kind that produces syurp?? I know yall got them kind up yonder.. If you want a regular Maple, I have a yard full where we are re-planting 82 & some odd acres where a forest fire burned down our lovely forest.. I have a bunch of them left over.. There about 3 foot tall.. I have pines also..

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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When was the last time you saw the ribbon tree? Today when I drove by it sure as hell looked like it had two nails holding it on the tree.

I haven't seen it in about a year now, and I never stopped and looked closely enough to notice if there were nails or not.

At the beginning of one part of Maribeth conways article "maura is missing",'the epilogue' iirc, she describes Fred stapling up the poster and the ribbon to the tree. So it appears that was how he put it up, but obviously someone must've nailed it on there at some point to make sure it stayed.

So there are nails in it now apparently; but have you ever seen any other tree with a poster on it? I've only seen posters on the telephone poles lining 112 and on the ribbon tree.

Either way though I actually agree with you here wowzer, if people are talking about going out to out up posters its probably a good idea to remind them to use staples rather than nails if attaching them to trees. I don't see a point of attaching them to trees anyways, telephone poles, boards at trail heads and things like that are more effective than putting them on trees anyways.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

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The only thing I find of note in regards to her arrest is that she was (per Renner's blog entry) arrested at her dorm, and not taken into the station and formally booked.
I would imagine she would get a recog/promise to appear bond - but I would also have thought they'd have taken her into the station, formally booked her, and THEN released her.
It was odd, how they took her photo at the dorm, instead of at the station.

This isn't neccesarily that strange on a minor charge like this. They really only need to bring her to the station to get her prints if they have some reason to question her identity, which maybe they should cosidering she was using a stolen cc.

Basically they arrested her and gave her a summons to court right on the spot, at least that's how it looks like it happened.
Apparently Maura admitted to it right when the cops came. I get the feelin the cop gave her the 'tell us the truth and we'll go easy on you' routine; which it appears they did. They didn't even take her to the station and they could've given her multiple charges if they wanted to.

It is odd they took her photo at the dorm but if teu weren't taking her into the station then they had to take it there.

Also someone commented that it looked like the station due to the cinder block walls, well almost every dorm in America has cinder block walls so we can't really tell much from that.

Emmett Dove wrote:

Is that the kind that produces syurp?? I know yall got them kind up yonder.. If you want a regular Maple, I have a yard full where we are re-planting 82 & some odd acres where a forest fire burned down our lovely forest.. I have a bunch of them left over.. There about 3 foot tall.. I have pines also..

Yes they are the kind that produce syrup. I love pure maple syrup. Thanks for the offer Emmett. That is kind of you but I'me actually surrounded by trees. My area is mostly woods which is why it's so easy for people to get lost.

But cops in mass will definitely just hand out summons' to court on minor charges. It's like getting a ticket for shoplifting, many people caught shoplifting aren't actually brought in for booking. If the cop is confident of the persons identity and the person was cooperative the cop will probably just give the person a summons to court for the offense.
Her charge, misuse of a cc under 250, is basically like a shoplifting charge.

To me that picture looks like it was taken in a dorm hallway but it's hard to say. That may have jus been renner's assessment but from what I've read it sounds like she wasnt brought into the station, which isn't out of the ordinary considering the charges, her record and the fact that she was cooperative and admitted to it on the spot

Another quote from Maribeth conway's "Maura is missing" 'part III'.

"The abrupt loss of Maura's scent in the middle of the road prompted officials to speculate that Maura got into a passing vehicle. Whether she did so voluntarily or was forced remains open to question."

In this she pretty clearly states that officials believe she entered a vehicle. There are several other earlier news reports that say the same thing basically, that LE believes she caught a ride but what happened after that is unclear.

Name wrote:

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You're the lawyer, Simply, but I don't believe the photo was taken at the dorm. If you look at "mugshots", many have painted cinder blocks as a background, just as her picture shows.
Snowy

I am not well-informed enough about MA procedure to say whether it's rare to simply issue a summons, in lieu of arresting at the local precinct - but, for the life of me, I can't remember any booking photos NOT taken at the County Jail/local PD.

Certainly, it suggests an air of leniency about the entire debacle, to me, at least.

Another quote from the sbd:
"When he returned to the accident scene, a New Hampshire State Police trooper was there.
Atwood said they checked the woods in the immediate area to see if Murray had gone into the forest. There weren't any tracks."

He seems to support what Healy said about the surrounding woods being checked that night for tracks leading into the woods.

He also said this:
"Atwood believes one of the vehicles which had passed his house could have stopped and picked her up. "She could be anywhere, absolutely," Atwood said.
He said whoever may have picked her up could have driven toward the area of Lincoln, or back to Route 302 and over to Vermont."

It appears sbd thinks she caught a ride. There's another article where he also says he believes she caught a ride from one of the cars that went past.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

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I am not well-informed enough about MA procedure to say whether it's rare to simply issue a summons, in lieu of arresting at the local precinct - but, for the life of me, I can't remember any booking photos NOT taken at the County Jail/local PD.
Certainly, it suggests an air of leniency about the entire debacle, to me, at least.

On a minor case like this, where the person cooperated, this is fairly routine.

Same thing as a cop givin out a ticket for shoplifting, which is basically a summons to court. But the person does have to sign a promise to appear and is subject to conditions of bail.
Basically the person is arrested, booked and bailed all at the same time.
The only thing they can really do more at the PD is take finger prints, which isn't neccesary. They would only make her do that if they weren't confident of her identity.

The cops likely told her they would go easy on her If she just admitted it, which it appears she did and the cop lived up to what he promised her. I've seen people get summonses in mass for open containers, simple assault(fighting) and even possession of marijuana before it became decriminalized. So they definitely can just issue a summons right on the spot if they feel it's appropriate for the situation.

This is a quote from lt. Bogardus of the NHSP regarding the lack of tracks. The search he's referencing took place on the followinf Thursday, the second time they did an extensive search:

""The results today were non-conclusive," Bogardus said. "We were unable to locate anything within a 2-mile square radius.".

"Tracks are prevalent out there, but none connected with Maura," he said. "So, now our ground search is suspended."

Heres a quote from scarinza in the same article referencing the same, second search:

"When asked why a second ground and air search was conducted Thursday, nearly a week and a half after the accident, Scarinza said, "We wanted to make sure we had done everything twice. We have a very good feeling we have done everything we can do at the crash site."

LE sounds pretty confident she didn't enter the woods.