Maura Murray

BobJenkins-OG wrote:
"Couple Q's of my own: how do we know she thought her car was soooo bad? Who besides the family actually said this?"

BobJenkins-OG,
That weekend Maura and her father had looked at cars. He had planned to get another car for her because the Saturn was in poor condition. Maura did not use the car very much because of its condition. I'd read that the car was in poor condition and also I believe this was mentioned in a documentary about Maura' disappearance. There is a hx of Maura quietly, secretly disappearing long before Feb 9, 2004. There are a couple of possibilities as to her travel companion. There appears to be a lot of vagueness as to when Maura actually returned to MA from WP and when she started attending classes at UMASS (month and year would be helpful). The travel companion may even have seen Maura getting into the vehicle that stopped by the accident scene...but had not dared to intervene for the same reason he and Maura had separate vehicles. They did not want to be seen together. I know when he returned from NY to MA ....I have read multiple variations as to when Maura returned to MA from WP. Initially I assumed the travel companion was the older of the two men but cannot be certain because Maura's disappearance hx began in high school. The younger one moved to NY before Maura but would later return to MA. It is important that I identify correct month and year she returned to MA and determine exactly when she began classes at UMASS Amherst.

aftermath wrote:

<quoted text>
Bumping for Maura,
People close to Maura knew that given the condition of the Saturn, she would never have driven it far into NH. Her car was in poor condition to the extent that she had been riding w/friends around campus and Amherst if she needed transportation. Maura was bright and very aware of the car's poor condition which makes one wonder why she would attempt to drive it miles north into NH. The only instance where she might have attempted this is if someone had been accompanying her in a second vehicle. The question IS...why take two vehicles? Why was it important for her NOT to be riding in the other vehicle? Why do people not want to be seen together? WHY not tell someone where she was going? She had survival training, was a hiker, etc...in terms of safety she knew the importance of letting someone know where she would be, where she was going....and yet she told no one. She evidentally did not want anyone to know she was taking this trip. Why would anyone do this? Why all of the secrecy? Two vehicles. Not telling friends or family about her trip....and she had done this before. So it was very important to her not to be found in the SAME vehicle with this traveling companion...and apparently she did not want anyone to know she would be traveling somewhere with this person or she would have told someone. What would be the purpose of all of this secrecy? What type of situation would involve all of this secrecy?

A guy with 20 years autobody experience said he saw the Saturn a little before it left MA. He said he believed the damage was caused by two different impacts. I simply showed him a picture of the car and he immediately recognized it and started talking about it knowledgeably. He also saw the Corolla after it was crashed. Not sure exactly when he saw the Saturn.

What could she possibly have done that would be so bad that her family put her into hiding for 9 years? I can see why some peopleifut think that from The family's words and actions but come on, this has to be the least likely out I everything.

Let's say she hit vasi, I could see her family maybe wanting to have her get out of town til the hear died down but within weeks of th hit and run it was pretty apparent that LE had no idea what happened, wasn't investigating and anyone who hit her was in the clear. So even the vasi hit makes no sense to hide her for 9 years.

It's possible she ran away from her family and started a new life, I think that's way more likely than her family knowing what happened and putting on this whole charade for 9 years.
When you see interviews with Fred he is definitely feeling guilty about somethin. All of the early interviews have the family pleading for her to cone home. Initially they thought she ran away. Is this hi Fred feels so guilty? He feels like he made his daughter run away?

But for real, what could she have possibly done that was so bad that the whole family would be inspired to hide her for 9 years?? That makes prett much no sense. And let's say she did hit and run vasi, her whole family are all accessories after the fact if they helped hide her. I seriously doubt the entire famil would all do something like that voluntarily.
What did she witness a mob hit and needed to be hidden?? Maybe a mob hit in Chicago??? Maybe romneys werewolf kids???

The whole theory that the family knows and is hiding her just doesn't hold water IMO.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

What could she possibly have done that would be so bad that her family put her into hiding for 9 years? I can see why some peopleifut think that from The family's words and actions but come on, this has to be the least likely out I everything.
Let's say she hit vasi, I could see her family maybe wanting to have her get out of town til the hear died down but within weeks of th hit and run it was pretty apparent that LE had no idea what happened, wasn't investigating and anyone who hit her was in the clear. So even the vasi hit makes no sense to hide her for 9 years.
It's possible she ran away from her family and started a new life, I think that's way more likely than her family knowing what happened and putting on this whole charade for 9 years.
When you see interviews with Fred he is definitely feeling guilty about somethin. All of the early interviews have the family pleading for her to cone home. Initially they thought she ran away. Is this hi Fred feels so guilty? He feels like he made his daughter run away?
But for real, what could she have possibly done that was so bad that the whole family would be inspired to hide her for 9 years?? That makes prett much no sense. And let's say she did hit and run vasi, her whole family are all accessories after the fact if they helped hide her. I seriously doubt the entire famil would all do something like that voluntarily.
What did she witness a mob hit and needed to be hidden?? Maybe a mob hit in Chicago??? Maybe romneys werewolf kids???
The whole theory that the family knows and is hiding her just doesn't hold water IMO.

What if the Saturn hit Vasi, but Maura Murray was not driving it?

Good question Alden, and I feel like if the Saturn did hit vasi it's more likely she wasn't driving it than was.
But that still is no reason for her family to hide her.

That could be a motive for whoever was drivin it to kill her though.

Let's say the call that reduced her to tears was made by this person and he was telling her what happened. She may have been really shook up about it and he thought she was gonna tell LE about it. People have been killed for a lot less than that. That could be a direct motive to kill her.

Wow, it's weird, evil, and holy. Jenkins is 777 posts today while Lighthouse101 is 666 posts today. The end is near. Take heed. Head for shelter.

aftermath wrote:

BobJenkins-OG wrote:
"Couple Q's of my own: how do we know she thought her car was soooo bad? Who besides the family actually said this?"
BobJenkins-OG,
That weekend Maura and her father had looked at cars. He had planned to get another car for her because the Saturn was in poor condition. Maura did not use the car very much because of its condition. I'd read that the car was in poor condition and also I believe this was mentioned in a documentary about Maura' disappearance. There is a hx of Maura quietly, secretly disappearing long before Feb 9, 2004. There are a couple of possibilities as to her travel companion. There appears to be a lot of vagueness as to when Maura actually returned to MA from WP and when she started attending classes at UMASS (month and year would be helpful). The travel companion may even have seen Maura getting into the vehicle that stopped by the accident scene...but had not dared to intervene for the same reason he and Maura had separate vehicles. They did not want to be seen together. I know when he returned from NY to MA ....I have read multiple variations as to when Maura returned to MA from WP. Initially I assumed the travel companion was the older of the two men but cannot be certain because Maura's disappearance hx began in high school. The younger one moved to NY before Maura but would later return to MA. It is important that I identify correct month and year she returned to MA and determine exactly when she began classes at UMASS Amherst.

Interesting post here. But what does "hx" mean?? You say that twice in the post and I can't figure out what it means.
Same Q I had from before, how do we know they even went to look for cars? It's all on Fred's word, and his story on the matter has change & doesn't make sense in several different aspects. We can't say her car definitely wasn't running right just because Fred claims they were looking for new cars, he's claimed a lot of things that have turned out to be wrong and possibly even lies. There's no question that her car runnin poorly was mentioned in many different places but we need to consider the source. When the source of this info has been shown to been lying about several different things than that's something that needs to be questioned.
Her friend that they went to dinner with said that they mentioned nothing about looking for cars. Who's ever heard of that? College girl about to get a new car doesn't even mention it to her best fiend?? There are none of her friends who remember her saying anything about looking for cars to my knowledge.

Ok now it seems like you know of someone who was at WP the same time as her and was at umass at the same time. It's pretty clear you believe this person to be her travelling partner, is that a correct assumption? I def see what your saying about this person not wanting to be seen with her, and that makes sense. But why take a ride from someone else If she knows her friend is coming along any minute?

As for when she started umass, that's a good question. Was it her first year or second year in Amherst? How is this not clear?

You also said two things that I wanna question. You say her dissapearance started before feb 9th. Then you also say her dissapearance started in high school? Can you please explain what you were saying there? Thanks

Alden Howes Olson wrote:

<quoted text>
She didn't have to apply as a transfer, wait for the processing of her application, and all that stuff. She just registered for classes. Jimmy Bulger's brother was president of UMass at the time, so it was no problem.

How do you know this Alden?
Who is jimmy bugler and what is his relation to Maura?
I cant see her not having to fill out the transfer application. If she's got a friend who can get her application through no problem then that makes it easier, but she would still have to fill out the application to get on the list to register for classes. See what I'm saying? He may have moved her application through, but she would've still had to fill it out, just like anyone else who has a friend who can get them into any other college. The friend makes sure the application is accepted, but they still have to fill it out. A transfer application is nothing, it's just your basic info with your transcript attached. It's not like she had to do something crazy to fill out a 1-2 page transfer app.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

... I feel like if the Saturn did hit vasi it's more likely she wasn't driving it than was.
But that still is no reason for her family to hide her.

Not that it's necessarily relevant, but Mass. law states that the vehicle's owner is responsible if the driver cannot be identified or located.

Alden Howes Olson wrote:

Wow, it's weird, evil, and holy. Jenkins is 777 posts today while Lighthouse101 is 666 posts today. The end is near. Take heed. Head for shelter.

Weird, wild stuff!

Aftermath, what do you mean about her history for disappearing starting in high school?

The autobody guy mentioned above - who saw both the Saturn and the Corolla - said it was his opinion that the first impact to the Saturn was made by its having struck a human or a similar object.

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Let's say she hit vasi, I could see her family maybe wanting to have her get out of town til the hear died down but within weeks of th hit and run it was pretty apparent that LE had no idea what happened, wasn't investigating and anyone who hit her was in the clear.

Cops were in Baystate ICU next day asking about Vasi's injuries.

Alden Howes Olson wrote:

The autobody guy mentioned above - who saw both the Saturn and the Corolla - said it was his opinion that the first impact to the Saturn was made by its having struck a human or a similar object.

Interesting. Were either of the cars brought to him for an estimate/repair? Or he just happened to see the cars parked somewhere?

Bobjenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
How do you know this Alden?
Who is jimmy bugler and what is his relation to Maura?

Ask Ken Fishman. He knows everyone.

Alden Howes Olson wrote:

The autobody guy mentioned above - who saw both the Saturn and the Corolla - said it was his opinion that the first impact to the Saturn was made by its having struck a human or a similar object.

I wanna make a comment on this.

First of all, all the damage to her car did not happen at the WB curve, it just didn't. There's no way to damage below the bumper and above the bumper without damaging the bumper. The damage below the bumper is perfectly consistent with hitting a snowbank. The damage above the bumper is not. That damage did not occur at the WB curve.

That is very unique dent, not something seen often. It's a sharp dent, but there's no indication it hit anything hard like a bumper or anything like that, absolutely no scratches.
I've only seen one dent in my life that ever looked similar to that, and that was when a friend of mine hit a pedestrian in high school. The dent was nearly identical to what is seen on mauras hood.

I challeng anyone to find a picture of damage from a snowbank or a tree that looks anything even remotely close to the damage to her Saturn.

What's interesting is that way back on the oringall mm and MMM forums there was a bunch of us, me included, that felt that the damage was not caused at the WB curve. We were theorizing about another accident. Well the PI's hired and eccosent reconstruction specialist and her confirmed exactly what I and others had been saying all along; that the damage to her car was not caused at the WB curve alone. There must have been anote accident that car was involved in at some other point

Alden Howes Olson wrote:

<quoted text>Ask Ken Fishman. He knows everyone.

Who is ken fishman? How would one go about gettin in touch with this guy?

He didn't just happen to see them parked somewhere.

Bobjenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
I wanna make a comment on this.
First of all, all the damage to her car did not happen at the WB curve, it just didn't. There's no way to damage below the bumper and above the bumper without damaging the bumper. The damage below the bumper is perfectly consistent with hitting a snowbank. The damage above the bumper is not. That damage did not occur at the WB curve.
That is very unique dent, not something seen often. It's a sharp dent, but there's no indication it hit anything hard like a bumper or anything like that, absolutely no scratches.
I've only seen one dent in my life that ever looked similar to that, and that was when a friend of mine hit a pedestrian in high school. The dent was nearly identical to what is seen on mauras hood.
I challeng anyone to find a picture of damage from a snowbank or a tree that looks anything even remotely close to the damage to her Saturn.
What's interesting is that way back on the oringall mm and MMM forums there was a bunch of us, me included, that felt that the damage was not caused at the WB curve. We were theorizing about another accident. Well the PI's hired and eccosent reconstruction specialist and her confirmed exactly what I and others had been saying all along; that the damage to her car was not caused at the WB curve alone. There must have been anote accident that car was involved in at some other point

A Saturn like Maura's rear-ended me a few years ago at N/S Maple and Russell St. lights. My steel bumper took a medium hit, bent. Saturn bumper did that. But Saturn bumper sustained zero damage. So... good damage to steel bumper of light truck frame vehicle and zero damage to bumper of Saturn. About same year as Murray's Saturn. And I have pics to prove it and the woman is still driving the same car.

Bobjenkins-OG wrote:

<quoted text>
Who is ken fishman? How would one go about gettin in touch with this guy?

He was F. Lee Bailey's law partner. They had an office on a pier off Atlantic Ave.