Maura Murray

Jenkins wrote:

Snowy who are you talking abou when you say a male poster among us has tried to recruit maura's friends into giving info about her?
Are you talking about orky?
I agree with you about renner, in reality he's doing his job. He's a journalist & he's certainly not trying to do anything sneaky or sketchy, he's been up front about his real name & intentions from the beginning & certainly isn't trying to hide anything. Calling him a stalker is not right at all, he's a journalist trying to do his job, which is to obtain as much info about a given subject that he can.
Personally I think it was a great idea for him to choose this case to write a book about, it's a true mystery that obviously still has much to be uncovered.
I also think he's done a great job confirming many things that were whispered about & called rumors way back when & now he's confirmed them to be fact. He's done a good job uncovering things & while I can see where the family is coming from not wanting to talk to him, I also can't believe that they wouldn't want their side of the story told
In his book. It's just weird that they want as much publicity as possible, yet they DON'T want a book written? How does that make any sense?

no, not talking about Orky.
i agree with you about James Renner; researching without the cooperation of Maura's family forced him to be more aggressive than if he could have freely interviewed the principles in her circle of family and friends.
for the family, it must feel like lose-lose. had they cooperated with JR, they might not know what spin he'd take away from their interviews.

if she has perished, would her past matter?
protecting her privacy, even today, would matter more if she is believed to be alive.

Maruchan wrote:

Just FYI, the reason I am focusing on info on Tim Carpenter is because Renner seems to now be relying on him as an authority on the Murray family. This statement in particular bothers me: "A message to Kathleen: Tim told me some scary things. I would like to hear your side before I write about them. Please contact me." I doubt very much Kathleen will contact him, so we will only have her EX-HUSBAND's word to go on with regard to what happened between them, and gosh golly, something tells me it isn't going to paint Kathleen in a good light. Just want to make sure that all facts are, as they say, in evidence, since Renner obviously has no intention of providing them all, only the ones that fit the tale he wants to tell.
Again, I am not for or against either side, just on the side of facts.

Maruchan - this is what happens over time. Eventually relationships die and secrets that needed to be kept don't need to be kept.

This would also happen if MM was abducted. I have often made the point that she would have hitched a ride with a man and women in the car. IF they abducted her, eventually their relationship would sour and one runs to LE.

Family had and still has the chance to come forward and clear the record.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
That was merely an observation, definitely not a critique. I like the way you think and brainstorming ideas is a good thing.
What is really baffling is why would maura leave the brew pub and go to her father's hotel and why would she even need any kind of car that night, considering her party/get together was in her own building that she lived?
It's an easy drive to get to the hotel fred was staying out, so I don't feel like I am going out too far on a ledge by saying that maura didn't need to drive him back to his hotel because he didn't know his way around amherst.
But that whole night is puzzling and to me is just a continuation and related to maura's odd behavior two nights earlier.
While one person can have two car wrecks in the same day, the manner in which maura had her wrecks leads me to believe that the wrecks were not just two unrelated occurences and a string of bad luck for one person.

It was Mauras friend that had the party. The party was at her friends dorm which is a different buiding from where Mauras dorm was. 2 wrecks in one day? Which date are you referring to?

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>It was Mauras friend that had the party. The party was at her friends dorm which is a different buiding from where Mauras dorm was. 2 wrecks in one day? Which date are you referring to?

Citigirl,

I was using an example stating that someone could possibly have two wrecks in one day (just bad luck) but maura's wrecks (which happened between early sunday morning and then monday evening) were way too similar in nature and IMO push the (just bad luck) possibility out the window.

From reports I have read, the party was in Maura's dorm. Because when maura left the party she took stairs to get back to her dorm room which would imply that the party was in a dorm room in the same dorm as maura's.

New Renner post... pretty interesting.

A third story by FM about the night of the Corolla crash. Which one is true? Certainly not the one told to media, but is it the story told to LE or to his friend?

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
That was merely an observation, definitely not a critique. I like the way you think and brainstorming ideas is a good thing.
What is really baffling is why would maura leave the brew pub and go to her father's hotel and why would she even need any kind of car that night, considering her party/get together was in her own building that she lived?
It's an easy drive to get to the hotel fred was staying out, so I don't feel like I am going out too far on a ledge by saying that maura didn't need to drive him back to his hotel because he didn't know his way around amherst.
But that whole night is puzzling and to me is just a continuation and related to maura's odd behavior two nights earlier.
While one person can have two car wrecks in the same day, the manner in which maura had her wrecks leads me to believe that the wrecks were not just two unrelated occurences and a string of bad luck for one person.

thanks for posting your observation, then.:) simply for the record, when i chose the word 'critique', i didn't use it in a negative sense. i actually welcome critique of any idea i throw out. i figure if an idea i have holds up under scrutiny, it may have some worth in the long run. if it doesn't hold up, so be it. but i do like your observation, since the possibility of fred being extremely intoxicated could lead to the same result of the hotel room door only being locked with the standard lock, which would make it possible for maura to get access later that night/early morning without disturbing him.

my gut feeling on why maura drove fred to his hotel and kept the car that night is that i don't think she was living in her dorm room on campus on a regular basis that semester. whether she was sharing space with a friend, or other boyfriend even, i think it was off campus. to me, it would explain why her dorm room appeared all packed up, why some of the residents on her floor reportedly didn't recall seeing her there much and why she would want to have fred's car that night. i think after the dorm party she was headed to wherever this space was when she crashed and her only option at that point was to have the car towed to the hotel. all total speculation on my part with nothing to point to other than, as i said, just a gut feeling.

i also just read renner's new post. like i mentioned to snowy, renner is posting new revelations that make us – well, at least me – look foolish. :) so, according to renner's new post, fred went to the hotel lobby and got maura, who had passed out, and took her back to his room. all i have to say is, barring any other revelations about that night, what a good dad.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Citigirl,
I was using an example stating that someone could possibly have two wrecks in one day (just bad luck) but maura's wrecks (which happened between early sunday morning and then monday evening) were way too similar in nature and IMO push the (just bad luck) possibility out the window.
From reports I have read, the party was in Maura's dorm. Because when maura left the party she took stairs to get back to her dorm room which would imply that the party was in a dorm room in the same dorm as maura's.

no the party was not in her building. What reports are you referring to?

So now we "know" (well, more or less) going carshopping was not the reason FM was in Amherst that weekend. The 4G was not meant to be a downpayment on a car. FM and MM was out most of the day, but not looking at cars. Where did they go and what did they do?
Why all the different stories about Maura coming to FM´s hotel, how she got in, when each of them woke up, at what point she told him about the crash? I would still like to know who made the call for a tow truck.
FM´s work schedule Monday-Tuesday just doesn´t add up. Either he is every employers dream come true, or a complete liar. Not many hours of sleep there. Why wasn´t he worried enough by Tuesday afternoon to try and get ahold of MM? No calls to her cell phone, no calls to her dorm room landline and no calls to her friends at UMass or her sister to see if they had heard from her?

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>no the party was not in her building. What reports are you referring to?

I just dug these up real quick

James Renner’s Blog

“Two days before Maura disappeared, Kate went with her and Fred to a brew pub in town and then returned with Maura to Kennedy Hall, where they went to a party at a friend's dorm room. The room was stuffed full of people, some they knew, some they did not, an even mix of men and women. She and Maura drank Skyy vodka mixed with Franzia blush wine, their drink of choice. Around 2:30 am, Kate and Maura left the dorm, accompanied by a male student. Maura said she was going to bed and the male student walked Kate back to her dorm. That was the last time Kate saw her friend.”

Maura lived in Kennedy no?

True Crime Book (Editors of Seventeen Magazine)
“At 2:30 a.m., Maura left Sara’s room telling everyone she was going to go upstairs to her room, but instead she got in her dad’s car and started driving back to his motel.”

Quoted from Renner´s blog:
"Oddly, Kate does not recall Maura mentioning that Fred had come into town that day to help her look for a new car, but is unsure if time has fogged her memory."

If it was my best friend who disappeared, those last days would forever be etched into my memory.

Re the dorm party... I can see Kate and Sara not remembering much about that party and who was there (at least one of them reportedly pass out drunk), but I can´t see why LE wouldn´t have tracked down some of the guests, especially considering the rumors of Maura having been raped. Or maybe they did, but kept it out of the media.

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
no, not talking about Orky.
i agree with you about James Renner; researching without the cooperation of Maura's family forced him to be more aggressive than if he could have freely interviewed the principles in her circle of family and friends.
for the family, it must feel like lose-lose. had they cooperated with JR, they might not know what spin he'd take away from their interviews.
if she has perished, would her past matter?
protecting her privacy, even today, would matter more if she is believed to be alive.

I agree with you about renner. Instead of fighting him on it they should've helped him I think, then they would've at least had SOME control over the content of the book, they could get their side of the story told, so to speak.
His newest posts are very interesting to say the least, he got some good interviews and some rather good information from them as well.
The newest post about the guy in Saco, me who helped Fred search for a year was very telling IMO. This shows that Fred was up there ever weekend for the first year, this guy, a total stranger at first was there side by side with him the whole time, and Fred paid for everything for this guy to help him. Fred even gave hiim permission to do a search on her social security number, this is why her SS number was used in saco, me.
That to me shows a farther that is truly lookin for any sign of his daughter, live or dead.

But I disagree with your statement about them not caring about her image if she was dead. I think they would care MORE about her image if she was dead. I think they truly believe she is dead and was murdered so they're worried about her MEMORY, how she's going to be remembered. They want her to be remembered for her many accomplishments, not the few stupid things she did in her life that make her look bad. Everybody makes mistakes, nobody's family wants to remember their loved one for their mistakes, everybody's perfect after they're dead.\

There's just no way this family knows where she is. They puposely started an online community based on keeping this case iin the public's eye, and its been very successful, there's no way renner would be writing his book or have his blog if it wasn't for those original MMM sites that started a whole online thing where the case took on a life of it's own. Why would they do that? Why would they critisize and pressure LE so much to investigate harder? Why not just say they think she's a runaway and nobody would've ever looked for her at all.

There's just no way they're hiding her and this is all an act for the public, that's unbelievable.
It actually makes a lot more sense that she was klled by a complete stranger that had absolutely no connection to her at all. That's why she seemingly vanished into the air it would seem, these cases can be impossible to solve. There's just no eviedence and no connection for LE to follow. That's JMO but it's the only thing that really makes sense 9 years later.

BillNH wrote:

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It is an interesting angle about them hiding her. Never thought of it that way. I had always felt that she left intentionally, is safe and sound elsewhere and that someone in the family knows WHY she left(meaning they know what drove her away from the family), not that they knew where she was and was hiding her. So if anyone still believes she is alive and well and left intentionally, what happened in Amherst and Hanson prior to her disappearance is very relevant.

The book is the only publicity the family has ever not wanted to take part in. They were on all sorts of tv shows at the beginning, having the ID disappeared show about the case, even starting this whole online community based around discussing the case so it wouldn't be forgotten. Why the hell would anyone do any of those things if they knew where their daughter is & helped her go Ito hiding. Maybe she's alive somewhere, it is possible & I think more likely than her comitting suicide & being in the woods somewhere, how far could she really have made it through 2.5' of snow wearing only jeans & low top sneakers? She might be Alive, but the family doesn't know where she is, come on that's just ridiculous.

You're completely righ that If they DO think she's alive then what happened back in mass is very important. One could argue that at the beginning the mass side of the case was the most important side, & they'd probably be right because often times when people go missing its the days & weeks before they go that gives the biggest clues as to where they went. But not always.
So in the beginning the NHSP had the FBI investigate the mass side of things, interviewing her friends & family in both Hanson & Amherst. It makes no sense that if there was a connection to why she went missing the FBI couldn't find it, I think that's what makes this case so baffling, is because there is no connection. Nothing that ties her to her abductor. Those are the cases that are next to impossible to solve. That's why there are all those unsolved homicides through the years in this area. Whoever has been killing these women along these roadsides has been killing complete strangers they they're not connected to. It's going to take a huge stroke of luck for LE to catch this guy.
I think that's why they're digging up Floyd's yard and even the CW's(F's) yard, they're fishing, they're hoping maybe that this is the guy.
I believe that what happened in Amherst is what caused her to go to NH in the first place, but NOT the reason she went missing. Somebody up NH abducted her who was a complete stranger & they have no clue who the hell he is. Personally I think they have a pretty good idea who is resonsible, but no hard proof to go off.
All I know Is this case is definitely baffling. I hope she is sitting on a beach somewhere sipping Mai-tai's & just not looking back at all, that would be awesome if she actually pulled it off & started a new life Scott free, but the chances of that? Slim, very slim. Especially when you consider how she got caught for CC fraud. She was ordering directly to her room with a stolen card! How stupid is that? Are we supposed to believe that she went from worst criminal in the world in November to master criminal in February who's able to completely escape, start a new life and then Never be found even after all these people, professional & amateur alike investigated the hell out of this case? It just makes no sense IMO. All IMHO.

anonymous posters have carried and embellished "stories" about MM's disappearance for years.
with J Renner's recent posts, new information is being revealed.
take it or leave it, but he's acting in inquiry, not cover-up mode.

hi Jenkins and all.As far as I know Mr.Renners book is not the only publicity the Murrays have declined to be involved with .take care philip

hannah_b wrote:

So now we "know" (well, more or less) going carshopping was not the reason FM was in Amherst that weekend. The 4G was not meant to be a downpayment on a car. FM and MM was out most of the day, but not looking at cars. Where did they go and what did they do?
Why all the different stories about Maura coming to FM´s hotel, how she got in, when each of them woke up, at what point she told him about the crash? I would still like to know who made the call for a tow truck.
FM´s work schedule Monday-Tuesday just doesn´t add up. Either he is every employers dream come true, or a complete liar. Not many hours of sleep there. Why wasn´t he worried enough by Tuesday afternoon to try and get ahold of MM? No calls to her cell phone, no calls to her dorm room landline and no calls to her friends at UMass or her sister to see if they had heard from her?

Bottom point. I agree. Have thought that for some time. Otoh....not sure there is an established refutation of him being there for alternative reasons besides car shopping. I do think that he may not have wanted to buy a car...his belief could differ from Maura's. I dont believe she would refuse to drive a car when her future depended on it, but drive it when it did not. Ergo...my theory is someone else drove her in the Saturn. Makes more sense then meeting up there. I dont believe the dogs. The getting away was to buy time for reliable transportation...this is my theory. After a death was claimed...she wouldnt be in a position to be seen hanging around campus that week. So she was forced to go with whoever offered to drive her..in the vehicle that was chosen for her by the driver....the Saturn. This is what I think happened.

But who called Maura in class? Which teacher escorted her? Sounds like a menacing call. I can think of a couple bullies. Can you?

BillNH - just a comment to the link buried in the muck. the author recorded great, detailed insight into Brianna's and Maura's personalities. it humanized them, rather than being obectified as "the missing".
i thought he missed the mark on justifying drug use in rural new england. it is always a personal choice, not an imposed cultural standard; nor do i less of Brianna or Maura for their indulgences.
i do think, however, that the Harringtons are the model / standard for handling tbeir daughter's disappearance / murder; probably because they are professionals.
it is a sad and terrible circumstance, in any situation, to have a family member lost...murdered.