Maura Murray

express wrote:

Body Shop Guy

HAha...thank you, so simple yet evasive.

whatif wrote:

not to stir the pot on this topic yet again, but there's a news story out today about the confirmation of remains found recently in indiana. though sad, it's good this family can finally have closure. what i found interesting is that the remains were of a girl who disappeared from her family home after going for a hike in 2010. her remains were found less than a mile from her family's house and her father believes she may have died from hypothermia.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/25/remains-...

Interesting indeed.

Although I know this will be ignored by those (jenky, jwb, etc) who INSIST that Maura must have been abducted because if she went into the woods on her own accord she "surely would have been found by now...", it is just one more demonstration of how hard it can be to find an object the size of a human being in even a fairly small area of woods.

I have lost count of how many examples I have given of people who have gotten lost and perished in areas much smaller and much less remote than the area that Maura could have gone missing in.

******The Lear Jet that crashed in the woods not far South from Haverhill.

........A MUCH LARGER object in an area similar to the location where Maura could have gone.

******The elderly woman who went missing from her home in Waterville Valley and was searched for by HUNDREDS of people within hours of when she went missing.

.......Found many months later very near a trail that lay within the area searched many times, Very near her home.

*****Patric McCarthy, went missing in an area much smaller than where Maura was, was searched for by Hundreds of people within hours of when he went missing.

.......Found 5 days later 2.5 miles from the condos, after 5 days and nights of intense searching by hundreds of people.

My point is this. The area that Maura could have accessed is much larger than the areas where these people (and airplane) have been found.

The search for Maura was much much smaller in scale compared to all of the above searches. There was never hundreds of people in the woods searching for Maura as there were for the woman in Waterville Valley or for Patric McCarthy in Lincoln.

The area where Maura could have gone is so remote, and so large, that the chances of a hiker or hunter 'stumbling upon her body" is the equivilant of finding a needle in a hay FIELD.

SO anyone who says,(this is for you jenky) that there is no way Maura could be in those woods, you are so completely misinformed I can not even begin to explain.

Now if you combine that absolute fact, and it is an absolute fact, along with:

** the behavior of Maura prior to the accident,

** the circumstances in her life that caused her to go to New Hampshire in the first place,

** the lies she told about a death in her family,

** her actions prior to leaving school, removing money, packing her things, the letter to boyfriend,

** ALONG WITH....

** the alcohol present at the scene,

** AND the alcohol she bought that was NOT FOUND at the scene,

** the statements made by Fred Murray upon hearing Maura was missing (Squaw walk with a bottle of booze),

** and the complete lack of opportunity for a random killer to abduct her without a trace,

** the short time such an abduction could have taken place,

** the desolate nature of Haverhill especially on that road,

** and the lack of any evidence whatsoever that any foul play was involved,(ie: blood, sign of struggle, witnesses who had view of the crash scene, etc)

** and most of all, Maura's own actions by lying to SBD about calling AAA, packing her backpack with the booze, leaving the scene on her own and avoiding help that was available to her.....

So you take all those facts, combined with the area she could have accessed in say, 30 minutes of when she left the Saturn, and the most logical conclusion can only be that she was distressed and went into the woods on her own with a bottle of booze and either intentionally or accidentally succumbed to hypothermia somewhere in that massive wooded area.

Now that does not mean that is what happened for certain because no one knows, but considering all the facts, that is without a doubt the most likely answer to what happened to Maura Murray.

The end.

aka ends justify means

How is it known Maura Murray was the person seen by SBD?

Alden.....why do You have a BW Ski ticket from the time MM went missing. You owned a red truck at the time MM disappeared. Why post those taunting videos, why be so cryptic.?

Alden H Olson wrote:

How is it known Maura Murray was the person seen by SBD?

This makes sense.......Because it wasn't Maura.!

Tang Zoi wrote:

<quoted text>
Please come to NH to see Me. Let's have a coffee.

He may be scared (or smart) to not want to meet with you especially in public if he heard the story about you being met with guns drawn in people's driveways. Wild west at it's best!Still laughing.:)

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
He may be scared (or smart) to not want to meet with you especially in public if he heard the story about you being met with guns drawn in people's driveways. Wild west at it's best!Still laughing.:)

I wish You were w/ Me that day. Laughing probably wouldn't have been Your first thought.

Laugh all You want.

FrmLE wrote:

Although I know this will be ignored by those (jenky, jwb, etc) who INSIST that Maura must have been abducted because if she went into the woods on her own accord she "surely would have been found by now...", it is just one more demonstration of how hard it can be to find an object the size of a human being in even a fairly small area of woods.
******The Lear Jet that crashed in the woods not far South from Haverhill.
........A MUCH LARGER object in an area similar to the location where Maura could have gone.
******The elderly woman who went missing from her home in Waterville Valley and was searched for by HUNDREDS of people within hours of when she went missing.
.......Found many months later very near a trail that lay within the area searched many times, Very near her home.
*****Patric McCarthy, went missing in an area much smaller than where Maura was, was searched for by Hundreds of people within hours of when he went missing.
.......Found 5 days later 2.5 miles from the condos, after 5 days and nights of intense searching by hundreds of people.
My point is this. The area that Maura could have accessed is much larger than the areas where these people (and airplane) have been found.
The search for Maura was much much smaller in scale compared to all of the above searches. There was never hundreds of people in the woods searching for Maura as there were for the woman in Waterville Valley or for Patric McCarthy in Lincoln.
The area where Maura could have gone is so remote, and so large, that the chances of a hiker or hunter 'stumbling upon her body" is the equivilant of finding a needle in a hay FIELD.
SO anyone who says,(this is for you jenky) that there is no way Maura could be in those woods, you are so completely misinformed I can not even begin to explain.
Now if you combine that absolute fact, and it is an absolute fact, along with:
** the behavior of Maura prior to the accident,
** the circumstances in her life that caused her to go to New Hampshire in the first place,
** the lies she told about a death in her family,
** her actions prior to leaving school, removing money, packing her things, the letter to boyfriend,
** ALONG WITH....
** the alcohol present at the scene,
** AND the alcohol she bought that was NOT FOUND at the scene,
** the statements made by Fred Murray upon hearing Maura was missing (Squaw walk with a bottle of booze),
** and the complete lack of opportunity for a random killer to abduct her without a trace,
** the short time such an abduction could have taken place,
** the desolate nature of Haverhill especially on that road,
** and the lack of any evidence whatsoever that any foul play was involved,(ie: blood, sign of struggle, witnesses who had view of the crash scene, etc)
** and most of all, Maura's own actions by lying to SBD about calling AAA, packing her backpack with the booze, leaving the scene on her own and avoiding help that was available to her.....
So you take all those facts, combined with the area she could have accessed in say, 30 minutes of when she left the Saturn, and the most logical conclusion can only be that she was distressed and went into the woods on her own with a bottle of booze and either intentionally or accidentally succumbed to hypothermia somewhere in that massive wooded area.
Now that does not mean that is what happened for certain because no one knows, but considering all the facts, that is without a doubt the most likely answer to what happened to Maura Murray.
The end.

Excellent presentation of the facts about the difficulty in finding a body in those woods. I do believe that your "along with" supports voluntarily leaving a prior life behind no matter what form that takes, be it walking away or ending it all. There is nothing that supports foul play except the bogeymen and as has been well pointed out, MM was no helpless child.

BillNH wrote:

<quoted text>
Excellent presentation of the facts about the difficulty in finding a body in those woods. I do believe that your "along with" supports voluntarily leaving a prior life behind no matter what form that takes, be it walking away or ending it all. There is nothing that supports foul play except the bogeymen and as has been well pointed out, MM was no helpless child.

To add to FrmLE's excellent synopsis. Anyone who wants the person driving Maura's car to not be Maura needs to prove or at least offer even the slightest shred of that. Not just sputter out written sentence fragments and then claim it is a working theory. Again, the simplest explanation that explains the known facts, yada, yada, yada.

Bill

BillNH wrote:

I do believe that your "along with" supports voluntarily leaving a prior life behind no matter what form that takes, be it walking away or ending it all.

As much as I would love to find out Maura is living somewhere with her 'hunky boyfriend', the modern real world we live in makes that possibility so rare it is almost impossible.

Do some people disappear and start new lives? Yes, it happens on very rare occasions.

However consider several factors.

* Maura's age and lack of real world savvy. Let's face it, she may have been a smart girl but she couldn't make it at West Point, she couldn't even buy her own Pizzas at UMass, nor could she figure out how to scam a Pizza from someone else without getting busted.

* Her lack of Money. Starting a new life takes money, lots of it. Money for stuff like, food, gas, clothes, rent, security deposit, car, insurance, etc. She had what,$400?

To start a new life in such a manner that almost 10 years later she remains invisible? Highly unlikely.

* She had no help. Ok she may have had a secret boyfriend or whatever, but if she disappeared, then THAT person muct also have disappeared. That person would have the same problems Maura would have, lack of money lack of assistance, etc.

What are the chances of that happening and no one noticing that 2 people have up and vanished?

* The fact that people who have families that care about them are willing to make those loved ones believe they are dead, maybe have been kidnapped, killed, etc. Do you think Maura hated her family so much that she would let her MOther go to her grave not knowing she was alive?

Possible, but VERY DOUBTFUL.

* Add to that the modern world we live in, the reliance on Social Security numbers, personal Identification, fingerprints, etc.

How could Maura get a Passport, a Drivers License? How could she open a bank account with no ID? How could she get a job, make a paycheck, get a credit card, etc?

Considering her age, lack of maturity, lack of resources, lack of assistance, lack of money, and the world we live in today the chances she disappeared and is alive is in my opinion about equal to her being abducted by Bigfoot on an Alien spaceship.

Though it would be nice if she were alive.

FrmLE- I don't see why you constantly insist on mischaracterizing what I and other people say.
I've always conceded the fact that IF she's in the woods that it's very possible that she hasn't been found.
Your synopsis sounds good, but you're leaving out a couple crucial facts that seperate this case from others that you've mentioned.

The biggest one being that there was 2.5' of snow on the ground at the time, more in higher elevations, this is confirmed by the NHSP, the nedia and local witnesses, including your beloved SBD. Not only was there 2.5 of snow, according to the NHSP the conditions 'couldn't be better for tracking'. It was nice fresh flufffy snow. When it snowed that big storm this winter I made a post about how incredibly difficult it was to walk ANYWHERE in snow that deep, there's no way she made it deep into those woods in any way. She was wearing Jeans and low top sneakers, it would've been extremely difficult and PAINFUL for her to walk anywhere into the woods. THese weren't conditions where you just run into the woods real quick to hide, these are condiditions that you can barely even WALK TEN FEET through without snow shoes. It's just next to impossible for ANYONE to get anywhere deep into the woods in conditions like that.
NVM the fact that we're tallking about a 21 yr old girl here, does anyone HONESTLY think that a young woman like that is just gonna go walking into the woods like that in te pitch black? THat makes no sense, no girl I've ever met would do that, even the tough ones that hike tuckermans in the winter to ski and go back country skiing out west and stuff like that wouldn't do that, that's just not something that is done.
Even wowzer just a few pages back said that no women she knows would WALK THEIR DOGS in pitch black conditions like that pu on BHR, so she nows no women that will walk their dogs in the pitch black but this 21yr old girl you think walked into the woods by herself through 2.5' of snow wearing sneakers and jeans?? And she didn't even take her gloves! she had three pairs she left in the car, IMO that shows a direct intent to NOT enter the woods but rather take a ride.

I've always said that IF she's in the woods that doesn'y mean she would've definitely been found, obviously, especialy considering the sizee of the forest we're talking about, but does anyone HONESTLY believe the she WOULD enter the woods in conditions like that?

Some seemingly nice guy stops and offers her a ride and she's gonna say ''nope, I'm gonna go walk into the woods throught 2.5' of snow instead'?? Come on! Be for real here, that makes no sense.

That's not even considering that the woods would have been the absolute WORST place to hide imaginable right then bc all they would've had to do was follow GIANT trail she would've left behind, she wasn't an idiot, she would've known that any cop in the world could follow a trail through the snow.

This is probably why the NHSP has said since the beginning that they believe she caught a ride from the scene, because that's the only thing that makes logical sense.

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>
Do some people disappear and start new lives? Yes, it happens on very rare occasions.
However consider several factors.
* Maura's age and lack of real world savvy. Let's face it, she may have been a smart girl but she couldn't make it at West Point, she couldn't even buy her own Pizzas at UMass, nor could she figure out how to scam a Pizza from someone else without getting busted.

~~the fact that she could actually buy pizza's without using her money or identity shows a bit of ability, even though she got caught 1 time, how often did she do it?~~

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>* Her lack of Money. Starting a new life takes money, lots of it. Money for stuff like, food, gas, clothes, rent, security deposit, car, insurance, etc. She had what,$400?

~~Dad had 4k in his pocket...do we know what happened to it? Without that even, the traveling companion would not have to be rich to pay for these things. We also only know what she took out of the bank, maybe she was stealing CC#'s and saving her cash. You can live cheap until you get settled.~~

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>To start a new life in such a manner that almost 10 years later she remains invisible? Highly unlikely.* Add to that the modern world we live in, the reliance on Social Security numbers, personal Identification, fingerprints, etc.
How could Maura get a Passport, a Drivers License? How could she open a bank account with no ID? How could she get a job, make a paycheck, get a credit card, etc?

~~In 2004 it was much easier to get out of the US without ID than it is today, our border with Canada was loose at best and Canada's borders with the rest of the world were even more loose. She disappeared less than 100 miles from a very weak border with Canada.
Some passable ID can be obtained for much less than $4k, especially on a college campus. SS #'s are a US thing, if you can get out of the country with a good ID, a drivers license, bank account are all possible.~~

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>* She had no help. Ok she may have had a secret boyfriend or whatever, but if she disappeared, then THAT person muct also have disappeared. That person would have the same problems Maura would have, lack of money lack of assistance, etc.
What are the chances of that happening and no one noticing that 2 people have up and vanished?

~~This applies ONLY if the companion was from the US also or possibly no family to miss him. To the companions family, he may have just brought a nice girlfriend home from the US to his own country.~~

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>* The fact that people who have families that care about them are willing to make those loved ones believe they are dead, maybe have been kidnapped, killed, etc. Do you think Maura hated her family so much that she would let her MOther go to her grave not knowing she was alive?
Possible, but VERY DOUBTFUL.

~~Sister and sister's bf/hubs drug addicted alcoholics, a future stepmother and biological father controlling megalomaniacs at the very least, other sister too good to keep up with, a family who fails to see reality, a cheating boyfriend, an adulterous but sickly mother with a purported alcohol problem.... yeah it's possible. It's not common, maybe even very doubtful, but this is already a one in a million incident, some of these doubtful things had to make it so.~~

FrmLE wrote:

<quoted text>Considering her age, lack of maturity, lack of resources, lack of assistance, lack of money, and the world we live in today the chances she disappeared and is alive is in my opinion about equal to her being abducted by Bigfoot on an Alien spaceship.
Though it would be nice if she were alive.

~~Very colorful way to make your point but I don't believe it's as far fetched as you make it out to be. It is more likely to me than an abduction, the suicide may be the most likely but starting a new life is not far behind.~~

I dont condone either of these, But what is worse up yonder?

A hippie getting drunk and growing pot Or
A thief that steals credit cards from dorm mates and reciepts out of the trash can looking for numbers to steal..

Which is Really the worst offense??

SO while it's obviously possible that anyone lost in the woods might not be found, there is the problem of her getting into the woods.

All of those cases mentioned by FrmLE aare completely different circumstances, those are searches when there WASN'T 2.5' of snow on the ground that was perfect for tracking, that's comparing apples to oranges.

The FD searched the immediate area that night looking for any footprints leading ino the woods and found nothing.
On wed there was a much larger search that involved the F&G helicopter flying the entire length of 112 from 302 up to N Woodstock looking for any trails leading into the woods. Scarinza flew in the chopper and talks about being able to see human tracks and game trails clear as day, but found NO EVIDENCE that any human entered the woods.
They had the clear advantage of only having to search the sides of the road, not the entire woods; if there was no trail leading into the woods then it's impossible for her to be in those woods.

The NHSP has always said that they are confident that she is not in the woods anywhere near the crash site, which makes perfect sense, they also stated that they beleive she caught a ride from the area, which is really the only thing that makes logical sense considering how she seemingly just dissapeared in the span of a few minutes.

And all of those cases brought up by FrmLE are good examles of how difficult it can be to find someone lost in the woods, that is obvious. Just because someone is not found does NOT mean that they're def not in the woods; but does anyone ACTUALLY think that?? I sure don't,, this about the 50th ttime that FrmLE has chose to be dishonest and try to say that I've said that, I've NEVER sad that and unless he's an idiot, which he's not, then it's pretty shitty that he chooses to lie like that.

But all those cases he's mentioned are people lost in the woods that were found after MONTHS, not YEARS. FrmLE can you point out ONE case where it's taken 9 years for someone to stumble across a body? ONE case of someone lost in the woods where they were NEVER found? It's been 9 years now, like BillNH said in one of his first posts on this forum a month or 2 ago those woods are VERY popular hunting grounds. During hunting season when you drive 112 you see many trucks parked at all the entrances into the forest, those woods are full of all sorts of people much of the year. While again this doesn't mean anything definite, it just increases the chances that she probably would've been found over all these years, it's been a long time.

None of that is definite, nobody can say for a fact that she's not in those woods or anywhere really, but the chances of it are pretty damn low, to say that's the most likely thing that happened to her is just foolish, it doesn't make sense when you really break it down and think about it critically.

All JMO, but hey, what do I know?

FrmLE wrote:

Although I know this will be ignored by those (jenky, jwb, etc) who INSIST that Maura must have been abducted because if she went into the woods on her own accord she "surely would have been found by now...", it is just one more demonstration of how hard it can be to find an object the size of a human being in even a fairly small area of woods.

Sorry Frmle, I have always said that I have an open mind as to what happened unlike yourself who only holds the walk in the woods card. I in fact stated a while back that I was beginning to strongly lean towards run away to start a new life and that is where I am now second to abduction. Suicide is last on my list as it was in Renners poll.

I am very impressed with BillNH to know how to respond to multiple quotes in one post. I still don't know how to do that :)

JWB wrote:

I am very impressed with BillNH to know how to respond to multiple quotes in one post. I still don't know how to do that :)

Click reply, then use the quote codes -(without spaces)[ QUOTE who = " JWB " ] quote here [/ QUOTE ]
Repeat as needed

BillNH wrote:

~~So it is safe to assume RO gave permission to be named?
Or did I miss the post about changing your methodology?
James?

Maruchan wrote:

<quoted text>
So, what I personally gather from his blog entry today is that he, in fact, did NOT talk to her a year ago, and the first quote is a lie. Otherwise, why is he just now finding out about the Mass plates that is suddenly "very interesting." Everything he has said and done about this issue tells me he never read anything himself about RO, and, in fact, does not appear to have perused her info even now. Had he talked to her/read her statements, he would know where she lived and that the truck did not "turn around" - it passed RO as she walked south on 112, pulled into the Stage Stop and then continued south.
And Renner "handled identity" by revealing RO's name - well, that was certainly a toughie, glad he found a creative solution. IMHO, he didn't know her name, and never talked to her, just lied to cover his keister.

Shack wrote:

IF...if RO was indeed "interviewed" by Renner, I am sure that she would have related what her Posts were in 2006.

citigirl wrote:

James Renner topix posting 34983 April 23,2013 "As to Ordway. I talked to her over a year ago. I'm trying to figure out how best to handle identity there." James Renner blog April 25,2013 The Red Truck Revised " Did Robinson witness this other driver turning around to return to the scene of Mauras accident?" This makes no sense. According to him he talked to RO over a year ago And now wondering what RO witnessed. If he has questions as to what RO witnessed then that means he never talked to RO.

James Renner wrote:

Thank you Lighthouse. Fred was adamant that he did not want a book written about the case even before I interviewed a single person.

So several here believe you never talked to RO, and Bill asked if you got her permission to use her name. Yet you respond only to Lighthouse.

Did you talk to RO approximately a year ago? How many times have you talked to RO? Did you get her permission to use her name?