Maura Murray

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenky,
the phone call never happened.
What you had back in 2004 was an on-going and constantly developing story in which the media was hanging on every new lead and word that investigators/police would say to the media.
Police thought (at the time) that they figured out what upset Maura that night because they heard from Maura's supervisor about Maura saying "my sister" and then about Maura pointing at her cell phone when she said my sister.
Once they determined that Maura talked to her sister that night, they put 2 and 2 together and made a connection.
But after talking to Maura's sister, they were unable to prove whether or not that phone call really was the thing that upset Maura and they became frustrated with Maura's sister (felt she wasn't being honest with them).
Either way, it has never been proven one way or the other what upset Maura that night. Just speculated.

Ok so you're saying that the UMass cop that wwas quoted in the media was lying about tracing the call back to an on campus phone? Why would he make up such an elaborate story? What would be the point of making that up?
Maybe he did make it up, there's a history of different LEO's lying to the media about this case but that just seems like a pretty elaborate story to make up.
He specifically states that they have traced the call to an on campus phone but have no way of knowing who was on the other end. So if ths cop wasn't makng up an elaborate story, which I don't believe he was, then it's pretty obvious that one of her sisters wouldn't have been the caller.
Also keep in mind that her sister, who by all accounts was her best friend and spoke to her on the phone every day said it was more likely that the whole thing was an act to get out of work than her really being that disturbed.
IMO in a case like this we really should consider what the people who knew the missing person best have to say rather than your biased notions on the case. You are hell bent on your belief that she committed suicide, which really makes no sense btw and it's making you miss the forest for the trees, IMO.
To me it still looks like there was a later call that she received at her desk phone from an on campus line that LE traced. There is a lot of confusion in the media and that's why I believe it's important to go by quotes rather than what reporters wrote and the UMass cop specifically stated that he traced the call to an on campus phone and they have no way of knowing who made the call, meaning it was from one of the phones in the common areas of the dorm.
Agaain: Why would a UMass cop make up such a story? WHat would he have to gain from it?
Why do you believe so much that she was truly that disturbed rather than just being lazy and wanting to get out of work early like her sister/best friend said? Why does it seem like you're thinking you know this girl better than her best friend did? I'm not saying that her sister was definitely right but I'm sure gonna take her word over some arm chair sleuth years later, but that's just me.

BillNH wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenkins,
You are suffering from tunnel vision..

You got it all wrong Bill, I'm totally open to possibilities, they just have to be LOGICAL possibilities and saying that she was the vctim of a drug debt or a drug deal gone wrong is just completely illogical nonsensical crap, unless there's something to indicate that's somewhere in the realm of possibilities it's just a waste of time to even consider.
Saying that we need to be open to ANY possibility is just ridiculous, well she could've been abducted by bigfoot under contract by the grey aliens who wanted her for genetic manipulation, why don't we consider that?
I'm open to any logical possibility, I like to think that she ran away and is living her life under a new name but sadly that just doesn't seem possible.
The only reason why I'm usually talking about the likelihood of her being abducted is to counteract these weirdos on here who are constantly trying to push the 'lost in the woods' theory. These people on here will say anything no matter how stupid, support anyone no matter how stupid as long as they support the lost in the woods theory. I'm just trying to make it clear that there is a very real possibility and probably likelihood that she was abducted and killed.
Just going strictly by the numbers the most likely thing that happened to her is she fell victim to foul play, that's a cold hard fact. When a young woman goes missing if she doesn't turn up within the first 2 weeks then the vast majority of the time she was murdered, sadly that is the truth in this country and it happens every day.
You mention the CRV serial killer and how his killings were centered 50 miles away. Well what about louise Chaput who was murdered in 2001 in Pinkham notch? What about Pamela Webb who was abducted along the ME turnpike and her body dumped in Franconia? Whether that was the same guy or not I have no idea, but there are clearly at least a couple killers who prey on women who are out on the road alone in the north country, that is a FACT. The fact that PW's body was dumped in Franconia means that the killer most likely lives in that area, or at least knows it well bc killers usually dump bodies in areas they know well.
I know NH is a very safe place to live, that's on of the reasons I live there. I haven't been to my house in about a year now because of work but Im a NH resident and I'll be back living up there within a month.
I'm not saying that NH is a dangerous place to live, not at all, what I'm saying is that there is a long history of women who were in the same area as maura getting killed under VERY similar circumstances that Maura went missing under. There's a very good chance that she fell victim to a oppurtunistic killer. Someon who doesn't stalk their victims but rather sees a woman in a vulnerable position and takes advantage of the situation. Also she was 50 miles away from the main killing grounds of the CRVK but she also had just travelled up 91N directly through the area, she could've been followed anywhere along her route, someone could've saw a young pretty woman who's all alone out of state in a shitty car and started following her, this is a very likely scenario. To say otherwise is to be in denial.
There is a reason people tell young women not to travel alone through back roads like this, if their car breaks down they're very vulnerable and if the wrong person comes along then they can fall victim to him.
I'm open to other possibilities, if someone can provide a logical scenario that is more likely than her being killed I would GLADLY change my opinion of what I think is most likely.

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
Ok so you're saying that the UMass cop that wwas quoted in the media was lying about tracing the call back to an on campus phone? Why would he make up such an elaborate story? What would be the point of making that up?
Maybe he did make it up, there's a history of different LEO's lying to the media about this case but that just seems like a pretty elaborate story to make up.
He specifically states that they have traced the call to an on campus phone but have no way of knowing who was on the other end. So if ths cop wasn't makng up an elaborate story, which I don't believe he was, then it's pretty obvious that one of her sisters wouldn't have been the caller.
Also keep in mind that her sister, who by all accounts was her best friend and spoke to her on the phone every day said it was more likely that the whole thing was an act to get out of work than her really being that disturbed.
IMO in a case like this we really should consider what the people who knew the missing person best have to say rather than your biased notions on the case. You are hell bent on your belief that she committed suicide, which really makes no sense btw and it's making you miss the forest for the trees, IMO.
To me it still looks like there was a later call that she received at her desk phone from an on campus line that LE traced. There is a lot of confusion in the media and that's why I believe it's important to go by quotes rather than what reporters wrote and the UMass cop specifically stated that he traced the call to an on campus phone and they have no way of knowing who made the call, meaning it was from one of the phones in the common areas of the dorm.
Agaain: Why would a UMass cop make up such a story? WHat would he have to gain from it?
Why do you believe so much that she was truly that disturbed rather than just being lazy and wanting to get out of work early like her sister/best friend said? Why does it seem like you're thinking you know this girl better than her best friend did? I'm not saying that her sister was definitely right but I'm sure gonna take her word over some arm chair sleuth years later, but that's just me.

Jenky,

You are just confused.

You are taking the quotes (from a phone call that took place Monday) and fusing them into the quotes referencing the phone call between Maura and her sister.(I believe one news report out of several dozen actually did the same thing) so that may be where your confusion is coming from.

Go back and read from the beginning and you will clearly see that the UMASS police in chronological order in stories, discover that:

1. Something upset Maura that Thursday night
2. A phone call is the potential source of what upset Maura
3. A phone call from Maura's sister is what potentially upset Maura.

A few days later (Monday Maura went missing) police were looking into a campus-made phone call between Maura and a friend. The precise quotes being used by police were that they could not trace the person down that Maura attempted to call because that person no longer lived there (in the dorms).

A quote from Maribeth Conway who wrote the award winning series on Maura which most people consider the best articles written on her goes something like this:
"The majority of people I've spoken to over the last few months believe she fell victim to foul play" (not an exact quote but that is what she said"
She spoke to almost every person who is involved in this case in some way, many of them obviiously don't want to say foul play on the record but that is what they believe happened. That's very telling, and it's logical.
Even the NHSP think she fell victim to foul play as evidenced by the fact that she is on the CCU list which investigate missing people ONLY if fould play is suspected.
So her family think foul play, LE thinks foul play, pretty much everyone thinks foul play except for this very small group of very vocal weirdos that post online, that says something.
I'm sorry, I know it sucks to admit, but it is the most logical conclusion to draw in this case, that she ccaught a ride from the scene and this person killed her, or she got killed after that person dropped her off somewhere.
I'm willing to consider any LOGICAL theory, it just has to be logical, and saying she got killed over some drug debt and we reached that theory bc her sister got busted with a few pot plants 7 YEARS later is simply not logical at all. Sorry bill but it's not.

And to point out that many unsolved murders have happened under very similar circumstances as her dissapearance is NOT stretching the truth at all in any way shape or form. To say the area isn't safe because of these murders then that would be stretchin the truth but that's not what I said at all and you won't read me say that that ever. I'm pointing out that many women have been murdered along the roadsides of the north country for years now and Maura went missing along a roadside in the north country, it is a very logical conclusion to think that there's a good possibility she fell victim to one of these sick fucks, sorry but it is. That's the absolute last thing I want to think happened to her, I'd rather think that she killed herself bc then at least she died of her own free will, but unfortunately it does not appear that this girl who had no history of mentail illness, who got in a car accident, got arrested for a misdemeanor and got a slap on the wrist, barely, killed herself. Nobody has EVER shown a logical motive for her to commit suicide.

It sucks but she probably got murdered. Please, somebody show logically that something else is more likely to have happened to her, using the FACTS of the case, not assumptions by armchair sleuths years after he fact, please. I don't want to think she got murdered it's just the most logical conclusion considering everything and lookin at it objectively and HONESTLY.

Jenky, we've danced to this issue before. But here you go again. Please pay attention to dates.

Feb 27, 2004 ---- Caledonian Record

"There also is the mysterious phone call Murray received while working as a security person at a residence hall at the UMass Amherst campus Feb. 5.
The call reportedly reduced Murray to tears and her supervisor had to take her home because she was so distraught.
UMass Detective Davies said his department has been able to track the phone call.
“We know the location,”; Davies said.“We have not been able to identify to whom she was speaking. Her friends have no idea who called her."

And then just a few days later:

Boston Globe March 2, 2004

"Investigators have determined the origin of an unusual telephone call that Murray received a few nights before she fled the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. The conversation upset her so much that she had to be escorted from her job to her dorm room.
The call, according to UMass police Lieutenant Robert Thrasher, came from one of Murray's two sisters. But Thrasher said police have yet to receive an explanation of what was so upsetting."

And then this one much later on:

Hanson Express, Nov 24, 2004

"According to Sharon Rausch, the mother of Maura's fiance Billy Rausch, the last two calls made from Maura's cell phone (on Monday) were to a UMass number and to a couple who is part of a condo association in the area of New Hampshire where Murray appeared headed.

The UMass number is pretty much a dead end for investigators, since the person who lived in the room Maura called in February has most likely moved on."

Jenkins wrote:

A quote from Maribeth Conway who wrote the award winning series on Maura which most people consider the best articles written on her goes something like this:
"The majority of people I've spoken to over the last few months believe she fell victim to foul play" (not an exact quote but that is what she said"
She spoke to almost every person who is involved in this case in some way, many of them obviiously don't want to say foul play on the record but that is what they believe happened. That's very telling, and it's logical.
Even the NHSP think she fell victim to foul play as evidenced by the fact that she is on the CCU list which investigate missing people ONLY if fould play is suspected.
So her family think foul play, LE thinks foul play, pretty much everyone thinks foul play except for this very small group of very vocal weirdos that post online, that says something.
I'm sorry, I know it sucks to admit, but it is the most logical conclusion to draw in this case, that she ccaught a ride from the scene and this person killed her, or she got killed after that person dropped her off somewhere.
I'm willing to consider any LOGICAL theory, it just has to be logical, and saying she got killed over some drug debt and we reached that theory bc her sister got busted with a few pot plants 7 YEARS later is simply not logical at all. Sorry bill but it's not.
And to point out that many unsolved murders have happened under very similar circumstances as her dissapearance is NOT stretching the truth at all in any way shape or form. To say the area isn't safe because of these murders then that would be stretchin the truth but that's not what I said at all and you won't read me say that that ever. I'm pointing out that many women have been murdered along the roadsides of the north country for years now and Maura went missing along a roadside in the north country, it is a very logical conclusion to think that there's a good possibility she fell victim to one of these sick fucks, sorry but it is. That's the absolute last thing I want to think happened to her, I'd rather think that she killed herself bc then at least she died of her own free will, but unfortunately it does not appear that this girl who had no history of mentail illness, who got in a car accident, got arrested for a misdemeanor and got a slap on the wrist, barely, killed herself. Nobody has EVER shown a logical motive for her to commit suicide.
It sucks but she probably got murdered. Please, somebody show logically that something else is more likely to have happened to her, using the FACTS of the case, not assumptions by armchair sleuths years after he fact, please. I don't want to think she got murdered it's just the most logical conclusion considering everything and lookin at it objectively and HONESTLY.

Maribeth Is a firm believer in everything fred has told her.

IF fred is being totally honest and forthcoming then I would put weight into what maribeth thinks.

Orko Kringer wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenky,
You are just confused.
You are taking the quotes (from a phone call that took place Monday) and fusing them into the quotes referencing the phone call between Maura and her sister.(I believe one news report out of several dozen actually did the same thing) so that may be where your confusion is coming from.
Go back and read from the beginning and you will clearly see that the UMASS police in chronological order in stories, discover that:
1. Something upset Maura that Thursday night
2. A phone call is the potential source of what upset Maura
3. A phone call from Maura's sister is what potentially upset Maura.
A few days later (Monday Maura went missing) police were looking into a campus-made phone call between Maura and a friend. The precise quotes being used by police were that they could not trace the person down that Maura attempted to call because that person no longer lived there (in the dorms).

Orky-
Maybe i'm confused, wouldn't be the first time, and maybe the journalist was confused, wouldn't be the first time that happened either, but what you're saying doesn't make any sense at all .

First of all in the article i'm talking about they are clearly talking about the call that made maura upset, not some call she tried to make on monday. I could see the reporter screwing things up that happens all the time, but that's what they were talking about.

But the precise quote was that they had traced the location where the call came from but there was no way of knowing who made the call. That means that it was from a phone in a common area, not someone she was callng in a dorm room.
First of all UMass clearly knows exactly who lives in every dorm room, and besides they're talking about a call TO maura not FROM maura.
Secondly...really?? They can't find the identity of someone maura called bc they no longer live there???? REALLY????? You don't really believe that right?? How does that make any sense at all? How could they possibly NOT know the identity of someone Maura called in their dorm room bc the person moved? Are you sayin they don't keep records of who lives in their dorms? LOL, I must be confusing what you're saying here or something.

So you're saying that in the article about the disturbing phone call where the UMass cop says that they were able to trace where the call came FROM,, meaning TO maura, but have no way of knowing who MADE the call they were really talking about a call that maura made 4 days later to a dorm room and have no idea who was on the other end?

THat makes absolutely NO SENSE at all orky, what are you talking about???

Orky- Yea she is a Fred believer, but remember that she also got to talk to him in person so she's in a MUCH better position that any of us to determine whether or not Fred is telling the truth, she got to spend time with him and talk to him at length so her opinion on him is much more reliable than ANYONE who's posting online, by a long shot.

But she's not only just believeing Fred, she's also believing all the other people she interviewed for the article which is pretty much every important person who is connected to the case, and according to her almost every single one believes foul play is what happened. That says a lot that almost every person who is connected to this case believes foul play.

I just find it iinteresting that almost everyone connected to this case in the real world believes she fell victim to foul play. So that means that pretty much everyone believes she was murdered except a VERY small numbber of people online who are very vocal about their 'belief' that she got lost in the woods or killed herself.
IDK about you but I'm gonna believe the people that are connected to the case in the real world over some people online, but hey, that's just me

orky-
THanks for posting those articles, the whole thing really makes no sense n a lot of ways. On the 27th they're saying that they know the location but have no way of knowing who made the call. That means they traced a call from an on campus phone.
Then a few days later they're talking about a call coming from her sister.

Either the Umass cop who said they know the location of the call was maing up a very elaborate story, or they're talking about 2 different calls.

I still believe there was a later call from on campus just because why would they make that up, but I'm obviously not 100% sure about that, this is just one of those many things about this case that just make no sense at all.

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
Orky-
Maybe i'm confused, wouldn't be the first time, and maybe the journalist was confused, wouldn't be the first time that happened either, but what you're saying doesn't make any sense at all .
First of all in the article i'm talking about they are clearly talking about the call that made maura upset, not some call she tried to make on monday. I could see the reporter screwing things up that happens all the time, but that's what they were talking about.
But the precise quote was that they had traced the location where the call came from but there was no way of knowing who made the call. That means that it was from a phone in a common area, not someone she was callng in a dorm room.
First of all UMass clearly knows exactly who lives in every dorm room, and besides they're talking about a call TO maura not FROM maura.
Secondly...really?? They can't find the identity of someone maura called bc they no longer live there???? REALLY????? You don't really believe that right?? How does that make any sense at all? How could they possibly NOT know the identity of someone Maura called in their dorm room bc the person moved? Are you sayin they don't keep records of who lives in their dorms? LOL, I must be confusing what you're saying here or something.
So you're saying that in the article about the disturbing phone call where the UMass cop says that they were able to trace where the call came FROM,, meaning TO maura, but have no way of knowing who MADE the call they were really talking about a call that maura made 4 days later to a dorm room and have no idea who was on the other end?
THat makes absolutely NO SENSE at all orky, what are you talking about???

And jenky,

If I would've continued in chronological order (which are how developing stories work)

We come to find that the umass police are able to locate the person for whom Maura called (and that was a fellow nursing student) that Maura swung down to her room and dropped of her lab coat to her.

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
You got it all wrong Bill, I'm totally open to possibilities, they just have to be LOGICAL possibilities...

Jenkins, you are not applying logic. To apply logic you need facts, and we do not have facts. You are playing with numbers based on assumption. Abduction/murder is the more frequent outcome, so it must be that, minus any facts.

SnowyB wrote:

<quoted text>
no, because some don't agree with you doesn't make you rational, and others irrational.

Sorry but yes, by definition it does. Without evidence to the contrary my statement is rational. Doesn't mean it had to happen, but with the evidence before us, it is the rational choice. And it has nothing to do with agreeing with me. It is about rational people coning to a rational position based upon the evidence. So, again, we are left with Maura being the most likely person to be driving Maura's car and crashing it in NH. Unless someone can point to one of the Maura look-a-likes who disappeared at that time? Or any other scenario that shows who other than Maura was driving Maura's car.

You are allowed to believe anything you might want to. But rational/logical means something specific.

Bill

Oh Yeah.......

John Greens newest post @ Renners is completely WRONG.

After the 10:10 pm Call. There were no more calls on the 5th.

12:07 am on the 6th MM calls Billy...

3:40 am MM calls Domino's Pizza

Where are they coming up with the Whole Julie thing....?

BillNH wrote:

<quoted text>
Jenkins, you are not applying logic. To apply logic you need facts, and we do not have facts. You are playing with numbers based on assumption. Abduction/murder is the more frequent outcome, so it must be that, minus any facts.

at some point, BillNH, you may need to lower your expectations.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Sorry but yes, by definition it does. Without evidence to the contrary my statement is rational. Doesn't mean it had to happen, but with the evidence before us, it is the rational choice. And it has nothing to do with agreeing with me. It is about rational people coning to a rational position based upon the evidence. So, again, we are left with Maura being the most likely person to be driving Maura's car and crashing it in NH. Unless someone can point to one of the Maura look-a-likes who disappeared at that time? Or any other scenario that shows who other than Maura was driving Maura's car.
You are allowed to believe anything you might want to. But rational/logical means something specific.
Bill

for whichever rule you choose to apply, the answers you supply are not proven to be correct or definitive.
rational reasoning with associated intelligence is not one-dimensional.
likewise, you will continue to believe what suits you.

Maura called Julie on 2/4/04 @ 10:28 PM for 2 min.

and then 2/7/04 @ 3:21 PM for 9 min.

amy researches wrote:

Citigirl, is the log that you obtained with your sister and Fred different from the log that is posted on your family's website?

yes it is. The one on MMM is from the court documents that Fred had recieved.

Introducing Occam Rational Thought....

Why are the GCSD logs different..?

Why are there edits and redactions...?


The person Who gave the family copies made a mistake......Wonder IF He is still employed.?