Maura Murray

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
please don't repost articles with names to stir the pot....you can see how aggressive and unbalanced some of these posters can be by their words and actions, just me. it is highly doubtful any solution will come from this forum....ever. leave the investigation to authorities and Renner. Renner seems to respect appropriate boundaries where no-means-no.

Snowy,
I agree with you up to a point here, but am frankly amazed by your high regard of Mr Renner´s investigations. As for the efforts of the NHSP, they may or may not be able or willing to do very much.
Since we are not privy to that kind of information we can only guess.
As for Mr Renner´s research, it is remarkably one-sided and seems to have more or less been grinding to a screeching halt lately.
To be honest, I also very much doubt whether anything substantial will ever be coming out of the Renner enterprise in this respect.
It is my impression that Mr Renner very much wants to run his own show and that he is unlikely to be thinking outside of the box beyond his own pet theories.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

<quoted text>
Snowy,
I agree with you up to a point here, but am frankly amazed by your high regard of Mr Renner´s investigations. As for the efforts of the NHSP, they may or may not be able or willing to do very much.
Since we are not privy to that kind of information we can only guess.
As for Mr Renner´s research, it is remarkably one-sided and seems to have more or less been grinding to a screeching halt lately.
To be honest, I also very much doubt whether anything substantial will ever be coming out of the Renner enterprise in this respect.
It is my impression that Mr Renner very much wants to run his own show and that he is unlikely to be thinking outside of the box beyond his own pet theories.

you're correct...i initially did not hold him in particularly high regard, but came to notice rather quickly that he was able to unearth some background info (however trivial) and verify facts, apart from the usual speculation. and when they are not "facts" it is so noted.
i'm told he is working on another project now...and assume we'll see him when we see him.
he's 'different-sided', imo, as in exploring where no man or woman has previously dared to go.
good for him. it's all upfront.....unlike scathing accusations made on Topix under the cloak of anonymity.

Bumping for Maura wrote:

<quoted text>
Snowy,
I agree with you up to a point here, but am frankly amazed by your high regard of Mr Renner´s investigations. As for the efforts of the NHSP, they may or may not be able or willing to do very much.
Since we are not privy to that kind of information we can only guess.
As for Mr Renner´s research, it is remarkably one-sided and seems to have more or less been grinding to a screeching halt lately.
To be honest, I also very much doubt whether anything substantial will ever be coming out of the Renner enterprise in this respect.
It is my impression that Mr Renner very much wants to run his own show and that he is unlikely to be thinking outside of the box beyond his own pet theories.

Like I said in previous posts, he's writing a book pertaining to Maura, dull books don't sell. Many authors take liberty with the facts down to outright fabrication, based on a true story means just that ( based on ) and it doesn't mean 100% factual.

Renner has brought new details to light but are they accurate or true? We haven't heard from some of these people about these quotes. Unless its heard from both parties it is subject to being viewed as hearsay.
He's made statements about Maura's life that seem to serve only to sensationalize and she's not here to argue or rebut those statements. Yes we on the forum banter back and forth about Maura's issues but we are not intending to publish them in a book either. I am divided on how to view Renner, trying to help, investigative author, or just trying to make a buck at Maura's expense. Not knowing the man or any of his work its hard to come to a conclusion.

Beagle wrote:

<quoted text>
Okay, you seem to know a lot about the Sinclair case so I'll take your word for it.
In the spirit of concentrating solely on Maura's disappearance, can I please get your input? What do you think happened? Domestic problem? Opportunistic abduction/murder? Got lost and froze to death? Killed herself?

I wish I could answer that question with as much confidence as I can w/Tina. But in all honesty, my opinion of Maura's fate changes alot. I do however believe it was not suicide.JMO.

Programs, infertile couples, and independent agencies recruit women for oocyte donation through advertising, often through notices in college or other local newspapers. By early 2005, some IVF programs offered as much as $8,000 for one retrieval, although smaller sums appeared to be more common. Regional influences seem to account for these differences. Although such payments have generally not been verified, much higher sums —$50,000 or more — have been offered in print and Internet advertisements placed by couples or entrepreneurs seeking oocytes from women with specific physical, cultural, or other characteristics and intellectual or other abilities.

**********

ABOVE FROM: American Society for Reproductive Medicine, Ethics Committee Report

http://www.asrm.org/uploadedFiles/ASRM_Conten...

oo00oo wrote:

<quoted text>
I wish I could answer that question with as much confidence as I can w/Tina. But in all honesty, my opinion of Maura's fate changes alot. I do however believe it was not suicide.JMO.

Thanks.

Collaborative reproduction usually involves anonymous or unrelated known individuals, but some couples prefer to involve a

family member

in the arrangement. This may occur intragenerationally between siblings or cousins of similar ages, such as a sister providing eggs for a sister or a brother donating sperm to a brother. It may also occur intergenerationally, as when a mother gestates her daughter’s embryos or a father provides sperm to his infertile son.

The Ethics Committee finds that the use of gamete donors and surrogates who are family members is in many cases ethically acceptable and satisfying for the participants, but that some cases raise serious problems and should not occur. To distinguish these cases, providers of assisted reproductive technology (ART) should pay special attention to issues of consanguinity, risks of undue influence on decisions to participate, and the chance that the arrangement in question will cause uncertainty about lineage and parenting relations.

**********

ABOVE FROM: FERTILITY AND STERILITY; VOL. 80, NO. 5, NOVEMBER 2003. American Society for Reproductive Medicine; Ethics Committee Report

http://www.asrm.org/uploadedFiles/ASRM_Conten...

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
please don't repost articles with names to stir the pot....you can see how aggressive and unbalanced some of these posters can be by their words and actions, just me. it is highly doubtful any solution will come from this forum....ever. leave the investigation to authorities and Renner. Renner seems to respect appropriate boundaries where no-means-no.

Don't worry Snowy. I wasn't thinking of reposting any articles, I didn't mean to imply that. I don't want to stir the pot, that's for sure.

just me wrote:

<quoted text>
Don't worry Snowy. I wasn't thinking of reposting any articles, I didn't mean to imply that. I don't want to stir the pot, that's for sure.

thank you!

I was just going through parts of the now defunct FindMauraMurray Forum.
There is a post there dated March 4th 2009 (1:45 am)stating that according to Butch Atwood (the school bus driver)NH State Trooper J K-M was at the scene of Maura´s accident on Rte 112 when Mr Atwood was returning from having searched the local back roads, including the Mountain Lakes area and French Pond Road.
According to Mr Atwood he then volunteered to help State Trooper J K-M searching for footprints in the area of Maura´s accident.

stupid is as stupid does

I wonder if that "trophey" beer bottle that Maura carried all the way up to the top of that that mountanous hike,(for her dad to drink) was not the same one found in the back seat, rolling around freely on the floor. Big stetch here, but Maura was said to have brought alot of beer CANS to recycling. Did she bring this "bottle" down from her room as part of the ruse or personal insult to dad?.....That's if any of this were a ruse, or part of a ruse. To me the rag seemed like a ruse or a message of sorts. Fred himself said he wanted Maura's hard drive back so he could see what she was up to, maybe something only he would understand.......Surely someone must have gotten into Maura's email accounts. I know a few hackers by chance. I'm sure someone on their side may too. You don't have to have the same PC either for some of this b/c it's stored on servers.

My main point being that fred and Maura shared a special relationshipship, and offbeat humor. Maybe for dad to see that rag out of place and his beer bottle amongst other things, he was starting to see she was speeking in Parables so to say.

Also, I think Maura's only chance at getting that car she was jonesing, for was Sunday morning before money bags left. After all the bad luck Sat night, he probably said to to punish her in a way.

Does anyone recall why Fred and Maura drove the Saturn back to UMass that time, sharing time between AAA and doing it themselves?

hannah_b wrote:

<quoted text>
I too find nondocumentation the presence of the off duty trooper strange, odd and peculiar. Maybe there is documentation, though not released to the public? I also don´t know what the requirements are re paperwork when an off duty LEO stops at the site of an accident. I doubt he would have shoved Maura into his car and drove off with her in plain site of several homes though.

It was dark. She was wearing a dark jacket. She may have walked, ran out of sight of the houses and was then picked up by someone. Someone she believed to be trustworthy? Friendly? Non-threatening? The dog lost scent at the intersection. Is this intersection within view of residences?

Wowzer the Real One wrote:
That's not exactly accurate. Besides the SBD and CW I can think of only two other houses, one being sold due to sickness and death and one still for sale. Tha Lab in Swiftwater recently moved south. The owner told me personally that he and his wife couldn't handle another winter up here and were going where it was warmer.
Not counting the older residents that died.They live in a different less stressful area now.
Most everyone that lives on 112 has lived there a long time and are still there.

Hi Wowzer,
What about Pauline Clark. Her body was found within yards of an A-Frame? Please do not tell me we're talking about the same A-Frame near where Maura's Saturn left the highway. Pauline's accident was ruled accidental (fall from a bridge?). Her death, due to blunt force trauma to the head resulted in accidental death ruling. I believe Ms. Clark's situation involved a fall from a bridge? Then of course there was Audrey Groat. She went missing while sitting in her truck at a rest stop. If I recall accurately, this was on the northside in VT approximately 20 minutes from Woodsville.

aftermath wrote:

Wowzer the Real One wrote:
That's not exactly accurate. Besides the SBD and CW I can think of only two other houses, one being sold due to sickness and death and one still for sale. Tha Lab in Swiftwater recently moved south. The owner told me personally that he and his wife couldn't handle another winter up here and were going where it was warmer.
Not counting the older residents that died.They live in a different less stressful area now.
Most everyone that lives on 112 has lived there a long time and are still there.
Hi Wowzer,
What about Pauline Clark. Her body was found within yards of an A-Frame? Please do not tell me we're talking about the same A-Frame near where Maura's Saturn left the highway. Pauline's accident was ruled accidental (fall from a bridge?). Her death, due to blunt force trauma to the head resulted in accidental death ruling. I believe Ms. Clark's situation involved a fall from a bridge? Then of course there was Audrey Groat. She went missing while sitting in her truck at a rest stop. If I recall accurately, this was on the northside in VT approximately 20 minutes from Woodsville.

Pauline wasn't found mere yards from the A Frame. Yes it is the same A frame, but but the water she was found in is at the base of the ski area which is across the street and through the parking lot of the lodge. My understanding is that her husband killed her.

I can think of at least three houses within eyesight of the crash

aftermath wrote:

Wowzer the Real One wrote:
That's not exactly accurate. Besides the SBD and CW I can think of only two other houses, one being sold due to sickness and death and one still for sale. Tha Lab in Swiftwater recently moved south. The owner told me personally that he and his wife couldn't handle another winter up here and were going where it was warmer.
Not counting the older residents that died.They live in a different less stressful area now.
Most everyone that lives on 112 has lived there a long time and are still there.
Hi Wowzer,
What about Pauline Clark. Her body was found within yards of an A-Frame? Please do not tell me we're talking about the same A-Frame near where Maura's Saturn left the highway. Pauline's accident was ruled accidental (fall from a bridge?). Her death, due to blunt force trauma to the head resulted in accidental death ruling. I believe Ms. Clark's situation involved a fall from a bridge? Then of course there was Audrey Groat. She went missing while sitting in her truck at a rest stop. If I recall accurately, this was on the northside in VT approximately 20 minutes from Woodsville.

Her truck was found at a park and ride in Montpelier,VT. Montpelier is about 45 miles from Swiftwater and an hours drive.
38 miles and 52 minutes from Woodsville if you jump on the interstate..
Looking4moose answered the other part of your qustion.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
Her truck was found at a park and ride in Montpelier,VT. Montpelier is about 45 miles from Swiftwater and an hours drive.
38 miles and 52 minutes from Woodsville if you jump on the interstate..
Looking4moose answered the other part of your qustion.

Yes, it seems there is some kind of nocturnal predator who is passionate about the interstates in NH and VT. Someone on some of the websleuthing sites agrees. Especially I-91....dashes quickly over into Vermont via I-89. Also fond of the Woodville to Lincoln run it seems. Someone at Sheffield may have figured out his game, unfortunately. Hopefully this was not the case. In years past, the Manchester and Lebanon areas held his attention. Still, even at that time, he seemed to treat the White Mtns as his private dumping ground, especially in the '80s. Do not think so? Seems he might be living closer to the White Mtns now. He loves them. What was that about? More convenient? He may have moved, relocated to somewhere near the Woodville/Route 112 region. Career change? Possibly but doubtful. Fascination for knives, absolutely. Feels intimidated and competitive with his wife? Targeting a younger version of her. Attractive brunettes who travel alone.

Martial arts? Brianna Maitland. Possibly some of the others. The possible connection. Maybe. Maybe not. The Missisquoi River may play a role. Some of the victims' surnames may hold the key as easily as anything else. Mason, Wowzer, Beagle, Whiston, and let's not forget the Ranter have spent hours diligently working on these cases. Detective Columbo. He had some very good ideas and I think he still does. The "runaway" theories were and continue to be tragic. Truly tragic. Lost time, lost lives. So what do we have. Someone these young women trust, someone they find impressive? Most likely. A few put up a struggle, like P. Webb. Her intuition told her something was not quite right about him. So did Brianna it seems. Chances are he approached her in a much different way. It was not daylight as was the case with P. Webb. Necklace and bracelet on the ground. They were no match for him. A grown man would be no match for him.

Hopefully you just have a very overactive imagination because if that's not the case then you're just outright scary.