Maura Murray

aftermath wrote:

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However, it is insane to believe that a young female would trot off into the woods in February after dark! What nonsense.

Insane? This is why I say people don't have a clue what goes on outside their living room. Believe me when I tell you it is not insane, it happens all the time, things like this and worse.

Ask ANY cop or EMT the things people do when drinking to avoind being caught. Examples? Ok since you asked, I had not one but 2 college students jump INTO a freezing river in the middle of winter to avoind a simple minor in possession of alcohol charge, not even a DWI. Both nearly died and had to be rescued.

Lets see, I have had people run into the woods in winter, jump off a bridge and break both legs, run into a strangers house in the middle of the night. I had a man on a motorcycle run from the cops and drive off a on ramp cliff at over 130mph, to avoid being caught, amazingly he even lived!

Insane you say? I say you have no background to make that judgement because you clearly have never worked in LE or EMS work. People do stupid insane things ALL THE TIME!

Beagle wrote:
"The fact that the most likely scenariois that Maura drove her car to the WB curve, left the area voluntarily, and perished in the woods does not mean that other scenarios should automatically shoved aside.

Even if an abduction theory has a 10 percent chance of being true, isn't it worth a closer look? Isn't finding out what happend worth it?

All I hear some voices say is "Maura drove to the WB curve, left, died in the woods. Happens all the time. Case closed."

If Maura can be said to have done crazy, unpredictable things, perhaps powered by adreneline and alcohol, why does that rule out other people from doing a crazy, unpredictable thing like attacking her and stealing her car in MA and driving it to NH?"

Beagle,
I could not agree more. A few people on this website ARE hoping people will believe that Maura was drunk and ran off into the night, into the woods only to succumb to the elements so that people will stop searching for her. This causes me to question why they are working overtime to promote their "theory." Ms. Chaput, Ms. Webb and Ms. Murray may have met the same fate and it was not because all 3 were drunk and ran off into the forest to avoid le. Past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior. In days prior to her accident on Route 112, Maura had been involved in 2 other accidents and had not run off to avoid LE.

Advocate wrote:

According to Mr. Renner's research, he's been told by the police that all the liquor Maura brought with her is accounted for, it was all left in the car. Due to previous misinformation,i.e., that only the wine was left in the car, assumption was that the rest of the alcohol bottles were in her backpack.
So now I wonder what WAS in her backpack She withdrew cash, so she had some spending money. She may have had more cash from whatever source (saved previously, etc.). Maybe she made a stop and bought some boots and put them in the backpack or in the trunk. Maybe she had some winter clothing in the backpack or the trunk.(Note: a witness saw the trunk light going off and on, indicative that someone was doing something there). Maybe she went some ways down the road and changed to the warmer clothing.
Something was in the backpack ... what?

I wonder if she had a laptop in the backpack, lots of people do that.

jwb wrote:

I personally really struggle with the idea that she walked deep in the woods. I can see walking in the woods to get behind a tree as an on coming car passed by. The trees are very close to the road so she wouldn't have to go far in order to do that . It is just way too dark down that stretch to wander off the road to far. JMHO

jwb,
I know. Unfortunately, many have become so distressed and yet comfortable with chasing and coaxing drunken individuals from the forest, they're having difficulty seeing the forest through the trees. Seriously. This seems to be much of the problem and why so many people remain missing? If this blanket theory, seemingly rendered sacred, is automatically applied to all "abandoned" vehicles, all serial killers must feel blessed. No wonder their "profession" is flourishing.

aftermath wrote:

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Beagle,
Moral corruption is rampant globally. It's everywhere. Unfortunately, it's often more financially lucrative over hard work and moral ideology. Corruption exists in government, private sector, everywhere. Many people do not enter their career hoping to be morally corrupt. Some do. For some it evolves over time. Fortunately, there are many individuals who set high standards for themselves, LE included.

I couldn't agree more having worked in Gov on the federal level, and the private sector. I find #1 is Power,#2 ego #3 money. There isn't that much money in most positions in Government. A friend of mine worked as a guard in one of the toughest federal prisons in Colorado and quit after a year. He said he'd turn his back on an inmate before he would a fellow guard. Ironically in most cases all of this exist with nothing to gain.

Having spent 20 years with the Air Force I can say usually professionalism prevailed on the military side of the house. The contractor and civilian side was a WHOLE different story!!!!

aftermath wrote:

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Agreed...people DO engage in questionable behavior at times. However, it is insane to believe that a young female would trot off into the woods in February after dark! What nonsense. If it meant serving several years in prison, someone might attempt to avoid LE, but only a fool would risk his/her life to avoid spending a few thousand dollars on legal costs of a DUI/DWI if found to be intoxicated. Maura was not a fool. She would have chosen the highway. On previous occasions she did not run off when she had an accident. She remained at the scene of both accidents.

Aftermath; then why did she lie to Butch about calling AAA and didn't want him to call LE. Because she didn't want them involved, I she she flat out panicked. People don't always act in what is their normal character. Also she had a situation where alcohol couldn't be denied, where as in the other accidents she didn't have alcohol splashed everywhere. She did throw the cup under the car. I see it as different circumstances compared to the other accidents that set off a chain of unfortunate events.

FrmLE wrote:

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Insane? This is why I say people don't have a clue what goes on outside their living room. Believe me when I tell you it is not insane, it happens all the time, things like this and worse.
Ask ANY cop or EMT the things people do when drinking to avoind being caught. Examples? Ok since you asked, I had not one but 2 college students jump INTO a freezing river in the middle of winter to avoind a simple minor in possession of alcohol charge, not even a DWI. Both nearly died and had to be rescued.
Lets see, I have had people run into the woods in winter, jump off a bridge and break both legs, run into a strangers house in the middle of the night. I had a man on a motorcycle run from the cops and drive off a on ramp cliff at over 130mph, to avoid being caught, amazingly he even lived!
Insane you say? I say you have no background to make that judgement because you clearly have never worked in LE or EMS work. People do stupid insane things ALL THE TIME!

Kids commit suicide over the most mundane things, some people blow things way out and let their imagination of the consequences overrule ALL common sense. Some people run from the cops over a minor traffic violation and end up getting killed or killing someone else. When emotions and adrenaline mix its a potent recipe for disaster and rational thought goes straight to hell.

NHwoodsman52 wrote:

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Aftermath; then why did she lie to Butch about calling AAA and didn't want him to call LE. Because she didn't want them involved, I she she flat out panicked. People don't always act in what is their normal character. Also she had a situation where alcohol couldn't be denied, where as in the other accidents she didn't have alcohol splashed everywhere. She did throw the cup under the car. I see it as different circumstances compared to the other accidents that set off a chain of unfortunate events.

NHwoodsman,
In at least one of the previous accidents, it seems as though she'd left a party and it might be reasonable to assume drinks might have been available at a party. Still she had not run away from the accident that occurred after she left the party. It was late, surely an officer would have been curious as to whether she'd been drinking?...and who knows who threw a cup under the car (Route 112). Just about everything at the scene of that accident on Route 112, seemed to be quite compromised. The Saturn was not immediately impounded...in fact it was towed off to a local garage. The car and area were not treated as a crime scene. It was treated as an abandoned vehicle situation.

NHwoodsman52 wrote:

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Aftermath; then why did she lie to Butch about calling AAA and didn't want him to call LE. Because she didn't want them involved, I she she flat out panicked. People don't always act in what is their normal character. Also she had a situation where alcohol couldn't be denied, where as in the other accidents she didn't have alcohol splashed everywhere. She did throw the cup under the car. I see it as different circumstances compared to the other accidents that set off a chain of unfortunate events.

NHwoodsman52,
Remember someone mentioning that they felt Maura might have been afraid of Mr. A because of his appearance (he was a very large man).

aftermath wrote:

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NHwoodsman52,
Remember someone mentioning that they felt Maura might have been afraid of Mr. A because of his appearance (he was a very large man).

She lied to college and said there was a death in the family, packed up her room, left in a car so unreliable she wouldn't even drive it around campus, didn't tell anyone she was leaving or where she was going, headed to White Mts in the middle of winter, most likely drinking on the ride up, had an accident and refused help from a passerby, didn't go to any of the 5 houses in plain view for help, left her vehicle and walked away. It sure doesn't sound like someone just wanting to spend a little R&R or go to the winter carnival.

For those of us who don’t believe MM is a Walk Away, committed suicide or succumbed to the elements close-by there are only a few possible scenarios:

* Targeted at rest stop/gas station, sabotaged and abducted by a lucky troller(s) in a truck.(She wouldn’t go with BA so she’s not going to go with someone else unless they’re credible, known to her or a woman is on board.) Maybe she was slipped dugs while she paid for some gasoline… car unlocked…

* The perfect storm: has an accident and on a quiet Monday night on Rte. 112 a horrible serial killer just haps along within a 10-minute time frame and there’s no sign of a struggle from somebody who has military training.

* Victim of car accident. Kids try to do the right thing. MM succumbs.(Like those DUI kids near Ro-cha-cha who tried to save the deer they struck.)

* Targeted by the PharmaMob.(Possible, but -- we need some proof… something… otherwise it’s just a potential movie-of-the-week screenplay.)

* Interrupted a grumpy Sasquatch while he was having a back wax.(That would maybe explain the duct tape and hair down the road.)

Yes, the packed up room is telltale of someone who is distressed. Maybe (girl thoughts) she figures she'll go up to the mountains. Chill. And what the heck if she meets a nice guy (she's very attractive) and he hears her story... she'll just go with him and leave the whole darn mess that perceives her life has become and move on... call everyone from Tahiti. That's what romance movies are made of... But in reality she never made it to her destination.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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She lied to college and said there was a death in the family, packed up her room, left in a car so unreliable she wouldn't even drive it around campus, didn't tell anyone she was leaving or where she was going, headed to White Mts in the middle of winter, most likely drinking on the ride up, had an accident and refused help from a passerby, didn't go to any of the 5 houses in plain view for help, left her vehicle and walked away. It sure doesn't sound like someone just wanting to spend a little R&R or go to the winter carnival.

absolutely.,

The truth is that nobody on this forum or anywhere else is going to win any accolades or become a household name for making contributions to what might have happened in this disappearance. Most likely they’ll be no star on his or her chart or pat on the back even if someone comes up with a valid clue.

Perhaps there are some posters or lurkers with untoward objectives and people who try to put a fly in the ointment from time to time. So be it. People are free to post their perceptions no matter however skewed they may seem to the rest of us. Providing it’s done with coherence, civility and good intentions, it works for me.

This case may never be solved – or maybe LE will catch a break or perhaps someone here will stumble upon a great revelation!

Nobody is trying to out-scoop Renner. There seems to be no scoop. Thankfully Renner has kept this going with his digging and dogged determination. But there’s no suspect, Truman Capote isn’t with us and this isn’t Kansas. So we’ll all keep on sleuthing…

PS: That would be DRUGS slipped into the Coke can – not “dugs”– from the last post.(Oi vey, too much baking, so little time!)

Are you suggesting that the only conversations worth having here are those that involve an abduction from someone she did not know?

aftermath wrote:

Three women in the White Mountains. Two dead, one still missing after almost 8 years. All connected to vehicles bearing out-of-state plates. All brunettes. All had been traveling solo. At least 2 of the vehicles had flat tires. Yes, Maura's Saturn had a flat tire as did Pamela Webb's Chevy truck.

no. there has not been written confirmation, to my knowledge, of a flat tire in MM's case. this piece of info was debated with "Columbo" on this forum. if he is your source, which you haven't linked, then i dispute it.

again, there is a very focused effort by aftermath and jwb to assert certain speculative claims in recent weeks...unsubstantiated info with some liberally scattered half truths.
not buying what you're selling...and would take an educated guess that the defensive moves are intended to proactively refute any verified information that Renner will be revealing after the holidays.
just sayin'.

Anything that is posted with honourable intentions, coherence and civility is all good -- most of us would agree with that. A sense of humour doesn't hurt either! Asking for a reasonable explanation for someone's assertions is what good sleuthing is all about. Helping another Poster develop a plausible theorem makes for great team work. Incoherent trashing of a "not so generally accepted" postulation isn't so nice.

Yes, tragically MM could have been... say if high, run frantically through the woods for miles and fallen thru thin ice on a pond... if that's the theory bring it. Absolutely. But try to back it up with some reasonable explanation that we all can build upon... a sighting, a locale, something someone heard.

My personal theories are are mine... and in some cases I find myself harkening back to my university days in a similar milieu in order to seek answers. And I've been wrong about many things... at least a kazillion times in this lifetime!

I don't suggest to speak for anyone -- newbies or old hats -- but I suspect most of us are open to anything at this point!

Frostman wrote:

For those of us who don’t believe MM is a Walk Away, committed suicide or succumbed to the elements close-by there are only a few possible scenarios:
* Targeted at rest stop/gas station, sabotaged and abducted by a lucky troller(s) in a truck.(She wouldn’t go with BA so she’s not going to go with someone else unless they’re credible, known to her or a woman is on board.) Maybe she was slipped dugs while she paid for some gasoline… car unlocked…
* The perfect storm: has an accident and on a quiet Monday night on Rte. 112 a horrible serial killer just haps along within a 10-minute time frame and there’s no sign of a struggle from somebody who has military training.
* Victim of car accident. Kids try to do the right thing. MM succumbs.(Like those DUI kids near Ro-cha-cha who tried to save the deer they struck.)
* Targeted by the PharmaMob.(Possible, but -- we need some proof… something… otherwise it’s just a potential movie-of-the-week screenplay.)
* Interrupted a grumpy Sasquatch while he was having a back wax.(That would maybe explain the duct tape and hair down the road.)
Yes, the packed up room is telltale of someone who is distressed. Maybe (girl thoughts) she figures she'll go up to the mountains. Chill. And what the heck if she meets a nice guy (she's very attractive) and he hears her story... she'll just go with him and leave the whole darn mess that perceives her life has become and move on... call everyone from Tahiti. That's what romance movies are made of... But in reality she never made it to her destination.

I'm betting on #5.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

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***Then their was speculation the Saturn had slid off the same highway earlier that night, but as an officer(?) approached the scene, the car freed itself from being stuck and took off into the darkness***
That's the first I've heard of this so it's most likely more BS.
Someone said they heard of another accident on their scanner but they didn't remember it until quite some time later (weeks/months). No one else that I spoke to that had scanners heard it and there were no dispatch or police reports. If it was true the officer would have called in the plate number before leaving his car and that didn't happen or it would have been in dispatch log. Just a little more BS IMO.

As far as the female sliding off the road and getting into a private vehicle goes. Joe Blow could have been driving along with his own scanner on and talking over the waves about what he just saw. Didn't nec·es·sar·i·ly have to be phoned in to police.....Just Scanner chatter....hmmmmm.

It was Anne who was boiling potatos that heard something to this effect. It caught her attention because of her friend with little experience in bad weather. Anne was afraid it could have been that friend and that's why the info stuck. It seems reasonable enough to be believable. That and well, Anne seems sincere.

I can think of a couple of instances where somebody saw or heard about Maura Murray and told people they may have seen her after the fact. Like the cumberland Farm store experience. The woman, upon hearing the news of Maura was haunted for quite some time that she may have seen Maura with an older guy mouthing the words "help me"

just me wrote:

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As far as the female sliding off the road and getting into a private vehicle goes. Joe Blow could have been driving along with his own scanner on and talking over the waves about what he just saw. Didn't nec·es·sar·i·ly have to be phoned in to police.....Just Scanner chatter....hmmmmm.
It was Anne who was boiling potatos that heard something to this effect. It caught her attention because of her friend with little experience in bad weather. Anne was afraid it could have been that friend and that's why the info stuck. It seems reasonable enough to be believable. That and well, Anne seems sincere.
I can think of a couple of instances where somebody saw or heard about Maura Murray and told people they may have seen her after the fact. Like the cumberland Farm store experience. The woman, upon hearing the news of Maura was haunted for quite some time that she may have seen Maura with an older guy mouthing the words "help me"

Sorry just me, I don't buy it. I listen to the scanner every day and sometimes it's very active which makes it hard to tell which town is talking unless you're listening in total concentration.
It's hard to believe that someone can remember hearing about a car off the road months or even weeks later.Even if her friend was driving that night how can someone remember the time,date and what was said and come forward weeks/months later suddenly remembering it?
The public cannot talk on the scanner. We can only listen. There was nothing on the dispatch logs or any police report and no one heard it but Anne so IMHO there wasn't another accident.