Maura Murray

Det Columbo wrote:

8 years later We are still putting up fliers about Maura here in Littleton, Bethlehem, Franconia, Lisbon, Sugar hill, Easton, Haverhill, Woodsville, Benton and surrounding ares.
And within a week or 2, 90% are taken down and are gone, nowhere to be seen.....JUST LIKE MAURA.
But all the missing cat and dog ones are still there. At least there are animal lovers out there.
John

Good way to change the subject but I'm still waiting for an answer to my question above.

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
this all seems like such juvenile behavior. you've been harping on minutiae for as long as i can remember. you connect the dots by backfilling with details you choose to dump in the pot for the duckies to stir.
you serve up paranoia with the soup, clear away the dishes, and start all over again.
so....where will you, as an advocate for the Murray family, bring your genius ideas next? there's not much traction on topix, and you haven't recovered MM.
hindsight is always 20/20. same 'ole saw.

Snowy Renner has claimed to have recieved thousands of pages of documents concerning Maura. Ask him to post every Grafton Sheriffs Department Logs that he has recieved if in fact he has the court documents that show the inconsistancys concerning this log the night Maura disappeaerd. The info for this night on these logs are not the same.This is why I originally asked way back is if the logs would be considered legal documents. I would think they should all have the same info on them but this is not the case. Could it be Renner does not have them because he has never posted them. And if he does he obviously has never read them.Because he never has mentioned anything about inconsistancys in the court documents concerning the logs.

Simply Sarcasm wrote:

I apologize for not editing out the slurs in my last post (the copy/paste from Mr112Dirtbag's video). I had astericked the inappropriate words, but when I copy and pasted it, the edited portion was not what I posted on Topix. Please know that I do not use those terms. It's a quote from the YouTube channel of Dirtbag.
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In regards to Columbo's recent posts - I'm simply not informed enough on the intricacies of NH LE and how the respond to incidents, to make any comment. I would assume you are, as a former LE. Would you think that the timing should have been shorter, or? I'm a bit confused as to what you are precisely saying.
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I never got a reply yesterday from AcidHouseMartin in regards to his (somewhat) hostile posts to Advocate. I am really interested in what he has to say on the issue - perhaps he thought Advocate was someone else?
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Snowy, I hope this doesn't come off as condescending, because I don't. I truly am glad that you've taken to walking those of us who weren't here, through the past. It's helped me, at least, tremendously. Like I've said repeatedly, I always enjoyed your posts from years ago, and it seems you are back to how you were, then. Perhaps it was sheerly a matter of burnout with multi-monikered posters and repeated questions (as you had alluded to). I'm sure it can be frustrating.

Simply ~ yes, i have been immensely frustrated by the chaos of misinformation spoon-fed to the public over many years. if you have followed this long, then you know the conspiracy theories and the BS was much thicker than it is now.
the days of OCD postings have been tempered, so that is positive.
all in all, there are no definitive answers, even to Renner, else this wouldn't be a cold case.
i do like the post i cut and pasted from the anonymous commenter at JR's blog today. that person captured some of the sentiment and common sense position that falls back to the father.
he, too, is as imperfect as he claims law enforcement to be.

Wowzer the real one wrote:

<quoted text>
You've dropped little hints and in a round-about way accused the police dept of being guilty in her disappearance. Very very unprofessional for someone that claims they are a Private Investigator IMHO. You've stated you've worked this case for 8 years. Isn't it your job as a PI to find out truthful information?
Do you think a respected professional PI would be saying the stupid things you are saying on a public internet forum?
Before accusing people I will ask you something I asked not long ago but you ignored.
HAve you ever sat down at the Haverhill PD with any of the people you are talking about and asked them any of these questions you are spouting on this forum? Ever? At any time???
And if you haven't then why not. Is it more fun to keep dropping mysterious hints at the guilt of some?
Just wondering and I think I am asking fair and honest questions.

since there is no room to nudge off the naysayers....here's one for ya

brilliant / helpful / agree

Renner" Details Remain Unproved. At this moment I cannot prove these things are true. I cannot find support documentation or unbiased sources to support these clues." Well he has never shown any documentation of what he has said. He claims to have documentation and is only posting his opinion as to how he reads this so called documentation. He is the book writer if he is going to throw things out there then it is he that should have proof to back up what he is stating. But to this day he has not put out any documentation.

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>Snowy Renner has claimed to have recieved thousands of pages of documents concerning Maura. Ask him to post every Grafton Sheriffs Department Logs that he has recieved if in fact he has the court documents that show the inconsistancys concerning this log the night Maura disappeaerd. The info for this night on these logs are not the same.This is why I originally asked way back is if the logs would be considered legal documents. I would think they should all have the same info on them but this is not the case. Could it be Renner does not have them because he has never posted them. And if he does he obviously has never read them.Because he never has mentioned anything about inconsistancys in the court documents concerning the logs.

just as a general comment, citigirl, i wouldn't be surprised if law enforcement documentation is incorrect or absent, or that communication would be poor, or follow-through is missing.
at some level, i suppose it's natural for a family to seek out the 'evil doers that are imagined to have harmed MM....the rogue officer(s), the CW, the SBD, or whomever.
perhaps the answers are where no one is looking...because, so far, there have been no results.
i don't believe anyone can say, with any certainty, what happened....and that's the rub i have with the theorists.
it's so old now, that no matter how many days DC wakes up and tries to convince the public what he believes happened, it's a hard sell.
surely, in time, the answers will come.

Snowy wrote:

<quoted text>
just as a general comment, citigirl, i wouldn't be surprised if law enforcement documentation is incorrect or absent, or that communication would be poor, or follow-through is missing.
at some level, i suppose it's natural for a family to seek out the 'evil doers that are imagined to have harmed MM....the rogue officer(s), the CW, the SBD, or whomever.
perhaps the answers are where no one is looking...because, so far, there have been no results.
i don't believe anyone can say, with any certainty, what happened....and that's the rub i have with the theorists.
it's so old now, that no matter how many days DC wakes up and tries to convince the public what he believes happened, it's a hard sell.
surely, in time, the answers will come.

Iam not seeking out the evil doers that are imagined to have harmed Maura. Iam only stating the facts concerning this case as they are. Snowy"the rogue officer{s}'theCW,the SBD,or whomever."This is your statement not mine.

I hate to again bring up the matter of the cellphone message that Billy received. On his site, Renner says this: >>A source close to the investigation now confirms the person who made the phone call has been located and interviewed. It was a Red Cross worker trying to reach William in reference to his requests for emergency leave from the military (the Red Cross can help servicemen get emergency leave in some cases). The Red Cross worker hung up because they believed they had reached voice mail and did not want to leave a message, opting to call again later to speak directly to Rausch.<<

But. Last night I again watched Part 4 of 5 of the Disappeared episode re Maura (available on YouTube), and here is what Sharon Rausch said about the "message" that was left: whimpering .. soft sobbing .. sniffling .. shivering.

Why would a Red Cross worker be whimpering, sobbing, sniffling and shivering???

Det.C and Citigirl,

Lets go back in time. Why was it all the posted photos on the MM forums of the type shoe Maura was wearing never the correct shoe and never stated so by head of forum. The truth is always important.

Was the shoes Maura wearing at the time of her disappearance half red and half navy blue or maybe dr. green? First choice in my minds eye is blue. NO,I am not a psychic.

A yes or no answer is all that is needed.

I really would like a yes or no

Det Columbo wrote:

It's amazing how these inconsistencies I state when it comes to LE is so quickly put down.
IF this was not a factor then why is there so much resilience on the part of certain posters to strike like vipers everytime it is mentioned.
John

Couldn't be because "You" keep changing theories. A couple weeks ago You were pointing your finger at E.Van Bowman, at which You were too lazy to look up the fact that he was in jail in 2004. Then when Beagle became an avid video producer, You claimed "things are heating up". You're all over the road. If I'm not mistaken, You have also stated in the past that LE did nothing wrong. Which is it??

Snowy "just as a general comment, citigirl, i wouldn't be surprised if law enforcement documentation is incorrect or absent, or that communication would be poor, or follow-through is missing." Pretty sad if this is the case. If some one is arrested and accused of a crime it is the police records that are used and help determine in a court of law whether or not a person is innocent or guilty of a crime.

For the sake of fair and balance discussion about the possible log redactions, I’ll offer this.

If the gap in the logs is a redaction - I’ve looked at three versions of the logs and can’t definitively say – the explanation for that gap could have been one of the things police explained in judge’s chambers. The original, unredacted log would then be one of the documents still under seal.

Aside from the theory of LE involvement or cover-up, here is another possible reason for this. If there was a prior accident, and it was Maura, LE could have good reason to keep these last known whereabouts secret from the public and family. Where she was last seen prior to the final accident, who she might have been with, or who might have been around at the time, etc, would be crucial to their investigation.

Just something else to think about.

it seems as though columbo has brought up some interesting timeline questions. they do like to question his motives quite a bit. feel as though he knows just enough to say what he does and is fishing for the rest.

maybe he is onto something

why are there so many versions of this log? how did they get these?

sounds of silence...oh well

backspace4me wrote:

Det.C and Citigirl,
Lets go back in time. Why was it all the posted photos on the MM forums of the type shoe Maura was wearing never the correct shoe and never stated so by head of forum. The truth is always important.
Was the shoes Maura wearing at the time of her disappearance half red and half navy blue or maybe dr. green? First choice in my minds eye is blue. NO,I am not a psychic.
A yes or no answer is all that is needed.
I really would like a yes or no

You have asked a question. But have basically told us how to answer it.{yes or no}

Advocate wrote:

I hate to again bring up the matter of the cellphone message that Billy received. On his site, Renner says this: >>A source close to the investigation now confirms the person who made the phone call has been located and interviewed. It was a Red Cross worker trying to reach William in reference to his requests for emergency leave from the military (the Red Cross can help servicemen get emergency leave in some cases). The Red Cross worker hung up because they believed they had reached voice mail and did not want to leave a message, opting to call again later to speak directly to Rausch.<<
But. Last night I again watched Part 4 of 5 of the Disappeared episode re Maura (available on YouTube), and here is what Sharon Rausch said about the "message" that was left: whimpering .. soft sobbing .. sniffling .. shivering.
Why would a Red Cross worker be whimpering, sobbing, sniffling and shivering???

Sharon Rausch also wrote:

"Billy and I both were insistent that the missed call/message to him that morning was from Maura. I had listened to the message. The ‘message’ was very short. It consisted of a very short time of labored breathing (the sound we all make if we have exerted ourselves in very cold weather), two, possibly three very wet sniffs as if someone were crying or had a very bad cold and ended in the middle of a very soft muffled sob.

The police played the message through their land line and said that it only sounded like someone humming. Detective Landry with the NH SP finally told us that he traced the call to the Red Cross. Please note that this information was given to us Wednesday evening *after* we had provided information about all of the people and agencies that Bill, Billy and I had talked to since learning of Maura’s disappearance.

Per Red Cross:... routinely she would not call any soldier as it is not necessary to speak to anyone but the parent or spouse making the request and the commanding officer. Also, I have my notes for the information that she requested and feel confident that I never gave her Billy’s cell phone number. The only number that I gave her was my cell phone number and the phone number of Billy’s Commanding Officer at Fort Sill. Of course, she already had my home phone number from the message to the answering service.

It is also my opinion that the sounds in the message make absolutely no sense *if* the call was from the Red Cross. Why would the Red Cross not leave a message, or if the other explanation that is to follow is the case, why would a Red Cross Employee/Volunteer make labored breathing, crying sounds while making a professional call?

Another reason the NH SP said that it was not reasonable to believe the message came from Maura was that she would have a left a message instead of just sounds. To my way of thinking the main reason that Maura may not have left a message is that Billy frequently has a problem with his phone whereby the caller does not realize that their call has made connection with Billy’s phone.

I have called him 2 or 3 times in a row, thinking that my call did not go through. Until we realized this problem just in the last few months since Maura went missing, Billy would always ask why I hung up and called again. If this were the case, then Maura may not have had any other minutes remaining on the calling card or she was in the undesirable position of not being able to place the call again.

As to the Red Cross possibility as suggested by NH SP, Billy never received a call or a voice message from them."

citigirl wrote:

<quoted text>You have asked a question. But have basically told us how to answer it.{yes or no}

Is there something wrong with yes or no? Then, answer as you choose to. Unless, that was your answer!

backspace4me wrote:

Det.C and Citigirl,
Lets go back in time. Why was it all the posted photos on the MM forums of the type shoe Maura was wearing never the correct shoe and never stated so by head of forum. The truth is always important.
Was the shoes Maura wearing at the time of her disappearance half red and half navy blue or maybe dr. green? First choice in my minds eye is blue. NO,I am not a psychic.
A yes or no answer is all that is needed.
I really would like a yes or no

No.

JAOCL4A2MMM wrote:

why are there so many versions of this log? how did they get these?

That I don't know. One is posted on Renner's site, another on the Murray family website, and a third was emailed to me by a poster named Advocate. The third version was originally posted on a website Advocate used to own. I don't know who originally obtained any of these logs or how. Through FOIA request, I'm guessing? Maybe someone else can answer that for you.