Maura Murray

Bart S wrote:

Does anyone think she was taking prescription meds or maybe was hanging around with druggies?

There was talk about her Mug shot on Renners blog that her Pupils were enlarged and Poster Jenkins I believe thought she looked like she was on Meth.

jwb wrote:

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It was just based on the witness FW saying she thought she saw a man in the car smoking a cigg

I heard she used to go alot to NH alone with her father, so maybe that was the man in the car smoking.

Ideally to tow a car the tow truck driver would have the keys, and be able to put the car in neutral.
But as anybody can see by all the no parking "towed at owners expense" they clearly dont need access to the inside of the vehicle to tow it.
A tow truck has a strong winch on it that could easily pull a Saturn on board without needing it in neutral.

I find it interesting that thy felt the need to break into her car. It's been said repeatedly that the car was locked when LE arrived. So who Jimmied the car open and why?
They didn't get a search warrant til the next day so at that point they had no business opening her car door. I wonde why they felt the need.

Cars slide off the rd all the time in Nh, many get left there for the night, particularly during winter when it's freezing cold. Sober drivers do this all the time too.
So what did smith see at the scene that told him this wasn't your standard abandoned car left after hitting a snowbank?
What caused him to open the door & stay at the scene for so long?
Clearly they knew more that night than they care to admit to the public.
This is obvious.
That's what I was saying Last nite, I was NOT saying that I think LE is responsible for her dissapearance and they r taking part in some massive coverup that would require the FBI.
Based on their actions that night it's clear they knew something bad happened to Maura.
Instead of coming out the next day an admitting it to the public they decided to play down the foul play angle.
Remember that if they admitted they knew she got abducted then they would also have to admit there was a violent criminal on the loose that they could not catch.
Nh LE would NEVER do that, ever.

Clearly the state agrees with me that a violent crime occurred, remember that major crimes and the ccu only work cases where its believed a violent crim took place.
If they believed she was just simply a runaway these agencies would not be involved

jwb wrote:

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There was talk about her Mug shot on Renners blog that her Pupils were enlarged and Poster Jenkins I believe thought she looked like she was on Meth.

Something was going on with her it's very sad. Maybe she jumped out the car when it was moving to get away from someone that she was in love with?

Did her brother have a drug problem?

Mr. Renner says that Another rumor can be confirmed. Maura Murray was caught using a stolen credit card number in early November, 2003, according to documents received today from Amherst Police.
OK this girl was in BIG trouble. Maybe she was spending her money on street drugs and then she didn't have any money for food? Maybe she was stealing peoples cc for a long time because that was the only time she got caught?
She looks really angry in the picture probably becaduse she got caught.

Jenkins wrote:

Ideally to tow a car the tow truck driver would have the keys, and be able to put the car in neutral.
But as anybody can see by all the no parking "towed at owners expense" they clearly dont need access to the inside of the vehicle to tow it.
A tow truck has a strong winch on it that could easily pull a Saturn on board without needing it in neutral.
I find it interesting that thy felt the need to break into her car. It's been said repeatedly that the car was locked when LE arrived. So who Jimmied the car open and why?
They didn't get a search warrant til the next day so at that point they had no business opening her car door. I wonde why they felt the need.
Cars slide off the rd all the time in Nh, many get left there for the night, particularly during winter when it's freezing cold. Sober drivers do this all the time too.
So what did smith see at the scene that told him this wasn't your standard abandoned car left after hitting a snowbank?
What caused him to open the door & stay at the scene for so long?
Clearly they knew more that night than they care to admit to the public.
This is obvious.
That's what I was saying Last nite, I was NOT saying that I think LE is responsible for her dissapearance and they r taking part in some massive coverup that would require the FBI.
Based on their actions that night it's clear they knew something bad happened to Maura.
Instead of coming out the next day an admitting it to the public they decided to play down the foul play angle.
Remember that if they admitted they knew she got abducted then they would also have to admit there was a violent criminal on the loose that they could not catch.
Nh LE would NEVER do that, ever.
Clearly the state agrees with me that a violent crime occurred, remember that major crimes and the ccu only work cases where its believed a violent crim took place.
If they believed she was just simply a runaway these agencies would not be involved

Jenkins,

To cover something up means you have to know what happened to cover it up. I don't know of any or see any evidence to see that a violent crime happened. Too say that the FBI and local LE know about it to cover it up is a theory I never heard before. Who else knows about the cover up? Fred wrote the governor do you think maybe he's part of it too? How many unethical people know about this case that covered it up?

jwb wrote:

would the car need to be in neutral?

JWB - First what happens is a tow company is on call each and every night the police work. In the event of a DUI or accident the tow company gets called. Sometimes the police use different tow companies and alternate tow companies if the other tow is out. The Tow companies need to be able to store the impounded cars as well.

Towing a 4 wheel drive car with a wrecker is awful, a flatbed neededs to be used so the four wheel drive isn't ruined. The car doesn't need to be neutral but it certainly helps the process. Once on the flatbed what gear in it doesn't matter because it is on a flatbed. If the car is on a wrecker you need the parking brake off. I don't know if the police can legally get into the car or not to put the car in neutral.

jwb wrote:

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It was just based on the witness FW saying she thought she saw a man in the car smoking a cigg

Does anyone know if her father smokes?

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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JWB - First what happens is a tow company is on call each and every night the police work. In the event of a DUI or accident the tow company gets called. Sometimes the police use different tow companies and alternate tow companies if the other tow is out. The Tow companies need to be able to store the impounded cars as well.
Towing a 4 wheel drive car with a wrecker is awful, a flatbed neededs to be used so the four wheel drive isn't ruined. The car doesn't need to be neutral but it certainly helps the process. Once on the flatbed what gear in it doesn't matter because it is on a flatbed. If the car is on a wrecker you need the parking brake off. I don't know if the police can legally get into the car or not to put the car in neutral.

Thank you for answering my question= very helpful info

The picture of her sister Katherline on Mr. Renners blog looks just like Maura only she's fatter. Is that the sister she talked to on the phone when she said My Sister My Sister?

hannah_b wrote:

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Not sure. Based on the alleged internet searches she might have been or thought she was.

Thank you hannah_b. Do you know if she was arrested before or if this was the first time for her?

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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Jenkins,
To cover something up means you have to know what happened to cover it up. I don't know of any or see any evidence to see that a violent crime happened. Too say that the FBI and local LE know about it to cover it up is a theory I never heard before. Who else knows about the cover up? Fred wrote the governor do you think maybe he's part of it too? How many unethical people know about this case that covered it up?

What your saying here is totally right, but rats not what I said at all. I didn't say anything about the FBI knowing and taking part in a coverup. Someone last nite said that if it was so obvious there was some sort of massive coverup going on that te FBI would step in, which I agree with.

I'm not saying they knew a murder took place and they covered it up, nothing of the sort.
What I'm saying is that based on their actions that nite the cops on scene knew something wasn't right. How much they knew is Debatable but judging by what they did they clearly did not think this was your average car that spun off the road, which happens all the time in Nh.

So they dent specifically know exactly what crime took place and maliciously cover it up.
But they clearly knew that something bad happened and instead of coming out and saying it they decided to play down the foul play angle.
Cecil smith lied to the family saying he thought it was Fred driing the car, which is an outright lie. Somebody told him to play down the possible abduction angle, that we know for sure.

So it's not a malicious cover up wheee Rey know one of their own is a murderer. It's them not wanting to admit that they know a crime took place because it will make them look really bad.

The state thinks a violent crime happened, they brought in major crimes within 2 days.
But instead of admitting to the public there was a murderer onthe loose and they can't catch him, they decided to pretend they had no idea something bad happened to her. They tried saying they didnt even know it was her driving, which was definitely a lie.
Think about it, with the small populations just one violent crime they cant solve can really mess up their murder rate and their clearance rate.
Much easier to just label her a missing person and investigate for a violent crime.
Nobody can debate that they are investigating the crime as a abduction/murder but they have it officially classified as a simple missing persons case.
& also how the hell could her car get so much more damage parked at the sp barrack? Makes no sense. I didn't say this was evidence of a coverup, I asked if anyone else thinks that it could possibly be.
I can't think of one logical explanation for that extra damage to the Saturn, can anyone else?
I know someone will chime in with towing, but towing a car does not damage the front end and at best the car was towed across a field. It looks like it's in the same spot to me.
So who caused the damage and why?
Is it a coincidence that now the damage looks more consistent with hitting a snowbank? R we supposed to believe that's just random?
Are we supposed to believe that they let people into SP property and vandalize cars?
I'm not saying it's proof of a coverup but it sure does suggest it.
Can someone please give me a reasonable explanation? I would love to hear one

hannah_b wrote:

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Not sure. Based on the alleged internet searches she might have been or thought she was.

But wasn't she also doing a clinical in nursing school dealing with maternity and early natal care at that time? that could very much account for researching the sites that were logged on her computer. And really, where did that information originate from? Was it an official release of information or one of those things that has taken on a life of its own?

Jenkins wrote:

<quoted text>
What I'm saying is that based on their actions that nite the cops on scene knew something wasn't right. How much they knew is Debatable but judging by what they did they clearly did not think this was your average car that spun off the road, which happens all the time in Nh.
So they dent specifically know exactly what crime took place and maliciously cover it up.
But they clearly knew that something bad happened and instead of coming out and saying it they decided to play down the foul play angle.
Cecil smith lied to the family saying he thought it was Fred driing the car, which is an outright lie. Somebody told him to play down the possible abduction angle, that we know for sure.
So it's not a malicious cover up wheee Rey know one of their own is a murderer. It's them not wanting to admit that they know a crime took place because it will make them look really bad.
The state thinks a violent crime happened, they brought in major crimes within 2 days.
But instead of admitting to the public there was a murderer onthe loose and they can't catch him, they decided to pretend they had no idea something bad happened to her. They tried saying they didnt even know it was her driving, which was definitely a lie.
Think about it, with the small populations just one violent crime they cant solve can really mess up their murder rate and their clearance rate.
Much easier to just label her a missing person and investigate for a violent crime.
Nobody can debate that they are investigating the crime as a abduction/murder but they have it officially classified as a simple missing persons case.
& also how the hell could her car get so much more damage parked at the sp barrack? Makes no sense. I didn't say this was evidence of a coverup, I asked if anyone else thinks that it could possibly be.
I can't think of one logical explanation for that extra damage to the Saturn, can anyone else?
I know someone will chime in with towing, but towing a car does not damage the front end and at best the car was towed across a field. It looks like it's in the same spot to me.
So who caused the damage and why?
Is it a coincidence that now the damage looks more consistent with hitting a snowbank? R we supposed to believe that's just random?
Are we supposed to believe that they let people into SP property and vandalize cars?
I'm not saying it's proof of a coverup but it sure does suggest it.
Can someone please give me a reasonable explanation? I would love to hear one

Jenkins,
I appreciate your passion. But I think it is up to you first prove that a violent crime happened. You are making an assumption off of an assumption.
First we don't even know Maura's destination so technically we can't even state yes or no if she made it there. We can only make a probable assumption on that. The car damage? Did you see the car before it hit the snow bank? How can you say the damage doesn't look consistant. Maybe Fred crashed into something three years before giving Maura the car and never got it fixed? Why are you going for the big conspiracy? Maybe the snowbank crash just added extra damage.
How was cecil smith lying. Faith Westman might have made the wrong statement by saying their was a man smoking a cigarette in or around the car. If she told police that wouldn't LE think Fred might be driving? How can you say for sure that LE made a major mistake.
Maybe it is common practice for you to walk away from a car in NH. This is a custom I have never heard of on the travel channel. I do know that if I was LE and saw a MA tag on a car with a box of wine inside and possible wine poured on the outside near the snow, and the driver is no where to be found I'd say that something isn't right. Thats just me I could be wrong though.

Det Columbo wrote:

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What "actual truth" are You referring to.?
John

Wish I knew the "actual truth"..Im thinking LE does.the coverup theory.

Lighthouse 101 wrote:

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Here's my logic on the light:
Butch Atwood saw Maura at the crash site. Maura had a cell phone. Maura didn't smoke, Maura can't change sex from male to female. Only one person was reported missing from the crash site and that is Maura. I therefore reason it to be Maura. Thats how I say it is safe to say it is Maura.

when was the red light seen?before,during or after SBD stopped?

AcidHouseMartin wrote:

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I just stood inside my kitchen and looked through the window at my sister smoking 15 feet away in the dark garden.
I saw no light, red or otherwise, and I have great vision with my contacts in.
Either we're talking a reefer the size of a rolled up newspaper, the 'red light' was something else entirely (and bigger than a phone) or this couple were mistaken in their recolection.
On the balance of probability (and assuming they don't habitually peel oranges with all their lights out as some sort of dexterity test), I'm inclined to suspect the latter.
I understand the compulsive nature of a mystery and no one is immune to wanting to be the 'special' person to crack a case. However, natural though it is, such curiosity IS egotistical and needs to be checked when it starts causing all kinds of mayhem with good old fashioned common sense.
Step away from the light...

"reefer the size of a rolled up newspaper" ROFLMAO!!!
If it wasnt a cigg or the cell phone,we might want to consider other options that might be seen from a distance...

looking4amoose wrote:

<quoted text>But wasn't she also doing a clinical in nursing school dealing with maternity and early natal care at that time? that could very much account for researching the sites that were logged on her computer. And really, where did that information originate from? Was it an official release of information or one of those things that has taken on a life of its own?

According to Renner she wasn´t doing any school work related to maternity etc, but who knows. That´s why I wrote alleged. Official release, are you joking... hardly anything in this case is.

Misc. Fred didn't smoke...

CS asked FW at her door.."where's the girl"

March 2009 on Advocates Forum....Northland Auto was called before Lavoies...and turned back...

March 2009 on Advocates Forum that photographs were taken by HPD that night....