Maura Murray

Reality wrote:

<quoted text>
More simply put, the time between the helicopter search and the crash was significant enough that no heat signature would remain in the snow

The heat put by a footprint from a shoe in the snow would last less that a second. The snow is at the ambient air temperature and it would return to that temperature in a split second after a footprint was made.

Not telling you, you obviously know. Telling others that haven't used and know nothing about FLIR.

Bill

Ok I put my source for the 20 miles, that was from the Boston globe.
When I have a little more time I will link the video that I'm referring to.
Scarinza specifically states that he flew innthe helicopter up to n woodcock, which is 17
Miles away.
From that you can infer that when they said 20 miles in the Boston globe they meant 17 to the east and about the distance back west to 302.

As for the heat signature you really gotta stop using big words when you clearly have no idea what your talking about.
Anything and everything has a heat signature when we are talking about flir, flir simply give the temperature as a visual reference on a screen.
The colder something is, the whiter is shows on the screen.
So a snowfield is going to look straight white, while a person will look black.

Obviously the persons heat isn't gonna be left 2 days later, wtf r u even talking about here?
When someone leaves footprints in the snow they break the snow, causing it to melt.
Are you from Nh, or anywhere where it
Might snow?? Ever notice when you leave tracks innthe snow and come back a couple days later the tracks are twice as big? Many a person has been fooled into thinkin they're bigfoot tracks because of this phenomena.
So footprints definitely melt faster than the surrounding snow, why? Because they're warmer. This is like 8th grade science class shit right here.
So if the tracks are warmer than the surroundin snow, even if just by a few degrees, you can see them through a flir. This is very basic.
The fact that your trying to argue this is just proving how little you know, sorry your wrong here.

At this point your just making yourself look stupid claiming someone's a liar when they obviously aren't. I though you gave up yesterday after I posted the quotes and the news story but obviously not, & its hilarious. So funny how people cling to theories when there's absolutely zero evidence supporting it.
What's also funny is that some idiots accuse me of doing this, and I don't even have a theory!!
I still can't decide if I think that she for abducted or went and started a new life. Or if she did get abducted if it was random, a bf, or her dad. I have no idea what happened!! You guys are ridiculous, obviously just trying to bog the thread down with minutae that doesn't matter.
If that new info is true about her consulting lawyers about family problems then I'm gonna have to start leaving towards she ran away.
It would actually be wicked easy for someone to not be found if they don't want to be, all you have to do is not use your real name ever, how hard is that?
It's not like there's some giant national manhunt for her, there wasn't even a statewide manhunt...they didn't even put out a bolo

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Footprints are most certainly visible as it would be a change in temp from the surrounding snow.
Why people choose to ignore this fact I'm not sure, but they are.

Bob, I don't know how many times you have used a FLIR, but I have used them many times in the Army and in the Fire department. You do not know what you are talking about in this regards.

You also clearly don't understand the principles of heat transfer, heat insulation and heat exchange.

As a starting point:
Q = M*C*(delta T)
There is more if you need it.

Bill

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

So footprints definitely melt faster than the surrounding snow, why? Because they're warmer. This is like 8th grade science class shit right here.

Bob, you are correct they CAN get bigger but you are totally incorrect about what causes it.

Riddle me this eight grader. If that is the case and we agree that the heat from the foot couldn't be there two days later. Why does the effect (the footprint continually getting bigger) continue for the rest of the footprints existence?

Bill

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
Q = M*C*(delta T)

WTF?

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

they didn't even put out a bolo

For a drunk girl running from the scene of a car accident?? Are you nuts?

They would be posting and cancelling bolo's so often that no one would pay attention.

You know why amber alerts has such a strong requirement in their guidelines before they say they should be issued? Because just throwing out that a two year old is missing would have no meaning and eventually no one would pay attention. Police need to verify that the child is missing, that the child is under 17, that the child is actually in danger, and they have a description of who took, or vehicle that the child is in. They do this so that the alert has meaning. Just telling people a two year old is missing isn't useful. It also isn't useful to notify the state or country that the two year old is overdue from a visit with a loving mom but she overextended her visitation rights by an hour.

BOLO's should be treated the same, and we don't issue BOLO's for drunk kids running from their vehicle after an accident. Eight years later we still don't and I suspect never will, nor should we. It's a waste of time, energy and manpower. Oh, and I might add that if she stayed with her vehicle, like she should have, this forum likely would not even exist. She rolled the dice, took her chances. She is now, little more than a reminder to everyone else of what NOT to do in a car crash. For someone with as much apparent promise as it appeared she had it is a very sad legacy.

Bill

Sylvester Briddell wrote:

<quoted text>
WTF?

It's a real basic equation Sylvester. Look it up. Helps determine heat gain and loss. Can come in handy when trying to understand how much heat in one second contact time a shod foot can transfer to snow. Not really enough for melting.

Bill

BobJenkins-OG wrote:

Ok I put my source for the 20 miles, that was from the Boston globe.
When I have a little more time I will link the video that I'm referring to.
Scarinza specifically states that he flew innthe helicopter up to n woodcock, which is 17
Miles away.
From that you can infer that when they said 20 miles in the Boston globe they meant 17 to the east and about the distance back west to 302.
As for the heat signature you really gotta stop using big words when you clearly have no idea what your talking about.
Anything and everything has a heat signature when we are talking about flir, flir simply give the temperature as a visual reference on a screen.
The colder something is, the whiter is shows on the screen.
So a snowfield is going to look straight white, while a person will look black.
Obviously the persons heat isn't gonna be left 2 days later, wtf r u even talking about here?
When someone leaves footprints in the snow they break the snow, causing it to melt.
Are you from Nh, or anywhere where it
Might snow?? Ever notice when you leave tracks innthe snow and come back a couple days later the tracks are twice as big? Many a person has been fooled into thinkin they're bigfoot tracks because of this phenomena.
So footprints definitely melt faster than the surrounding snow, why? Because they're warmer. This is like 8th grade science class shit right here.
So if the tracks are warmer than the surroundin snow, even if just by a few degrees, you can see them through a flir. This is very basic.
The fact that your trying to argue this is just proving how little you know, sorry your wrong here.
At this point your just making yourself look stupid claiming someone's a liar when they obviously aren't. I though you gave up yesterday after I posted the quotes and the news story but obviously not, & its hilarious. So funny how people cling to theories when there's absolutely zero evidence supporting it.
What's also funny is that some idiots accuse me of doing this, and I don't even have a theory!!
I still can't decide if I think that she for abducted or went and started a new life. Or if she did get abducted if it was random, a bf, or her dad. I have no idea what happened!! You guys are ridiculous, obviously just trying to bog the thread down with minutae that doesn't matter.
If that new info is true about her consulting lawyers about family problems then I'm gonna have to start leaving towards she ran away.
It would actually be wicked easy for someone to not be found if they don't want to be, all you have to do is not use your real name ever, how hard is that?
It's not like there's some giant national manhunt for her, there wasn't even a statewide manhunt...they didn't even put out a bolo

The body cools at about 1.5 degrees and hour on average post mortem. If the search began two days later it would be the same temp as the snow. How would it show up on a Flir?

Even after twelve hours the skin would probably be the equivlant of the outside temp. Only the core would still be warm. I believe rectal thermometers are used to try and get a time for death. Once the skin is the same as the outside temp it won't show up on any heat signature. That could take just twelve hours. Assuming that the subject in question was dead.

question_ was the helicopter used in both searches? Feb th was the first and then 10 days later was the second search. I thought only the dog was used early on as well as search on foot but could be wrong.

feb 11th first search

SRSLYWTH wrote:

<quoted text>
SRSLY. Just think about it. Shez hot!!! I bet she hoppd the brdr 2 Canada. She didnt need a passport. They say she has relatives there. This iz just what i heard. Anyone else hear this?
Respectfully
The Billy Goat

I herd a wildlife ate her. Wasn't me.

RAWR!

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text>
The heat put by a footprint from a shoe in the snow would last less that a second. The snow is at the ambient air temperature and it would return to that temperature in a split second after a footprint was made.
Not telling you, you obviously know. Telling others that haven't used and know nothing about FLIR.
Bill

I'm thinking the shoe once it has been outside and stopping on snow would probably be the same temp as the snow. Boots or sneakers are insulated but eventually your feet would start to feel the cold.

For your feet to be warm or hot enough to pass through the inch or so of a rubber soul while walking outside in freezing temps and touching snow to melt it, or continue to melt it I'd imagine we would need our internal temperatures to be 1000 degrees or higher.

Who ever was looking at the tracks was looking at them with the naked eye or binoculars.

Ok so your guys are saying scarinza was lying when he said he could see animal tracks and footprints in the snow through his flir device? Why would he lie about that?

Who ever said anything about her body heat remaining in the snow 2 days later?
Seriously, wtf r u guys even talking about?

Footprints melt fast than the surrounding snow because they're a warmer temperature. Not much, but warmer. If only by a few degrees, they're warmer, this is the basic reason why the melt faster than surrounding snow that's untouched. This is simple shit here.
Flir is extremely sensitive, it can see a very small change in temp and it will show on the screen.

Bill I love how you do an Internet search and find some equation that 99% of people won't understand, & really has nothing to do with the conversation and Try to use it to make people think your right.
Do you even understand that equation?
You must really have some sort of inferiority complex in real life, who tries soo hard to make people online think they're smart? It's pretty f'n sad thinking about it actually.

Scarinza said he could see footprints in the snow & I believe him. If you choose not to that's fine.

WTH-the-original wrote:

<quoted text> [text deleted]
BOLO's should be treated the same, and we don't issue BOLO's for drunk kids running from their vehicle after an accident. Eight years later we still don't and I suspect never will, nor should we. It's a waste of time, energy and manpower. Oh, and I might add that if she stayed with her vehicle, like she should have, this forum likely would not even exist. She rolled the dice, took her chances. She is now, little more than a reminder to everyone else of what NOT to do in a car crash. For someone with as much apparent promise as it appeared she had it is a very sad legacy.
Bill

Bill,
WTH, what did I miss all these years? "WE?" Are you in law enforcement?

Ok so you guys think she's lost in the woods right?
What evidence do you have supporting your position?
Why do you think this?

I've read all these posts and the only thing i can see for reasoning is that they think maira was drunk, which is not even close to evidence.
We know she drank st least one drink, but we also know she wasn't drunk enough to have her motor skills impaired.

She was drunk and wanted to avoid a DUI, that's the evidence??? That's it?
Why didnt she just catch a ride from someone then?
Wouldn't that be the easiest and simplest way to leave the scene?

What evidence is there supporting the theory that she's lost in the woods?

I already admit that it is a possibilty she's innthe woods, although I think the probability of that is extremely low, it is theoretically possible.

If someone can present any evidence to me that is actually what happened I will gladly admit I'm wrong and that she might be in the woods.

So how about we stop debating useless details and get down to some real shit.

What is the evidence that is pointing you guys in the direction of she's lost in the woods?

I suspect I'm just gonna hear bullshit about alcohol and adrenaline that's been repeated again and again but has nothing to actually back the theory, or maybe a bunch more personal attacks.
It's obvious that I've hit a nerve, clearly something I'm saying is scaring someone.
What's the problem, I'm not an idiot?
Should be really easy to prove me wrong withou the personal atracks

Bill we are talking about a bolo not an amber alert!!
Two completely different things, so different they should never be compared, come on your smart enough to know the difference who are you tryingto fool here?

A bolo requires no extra manpower, no extra resources, it requires absolutely nothing except a call to another town.
So your saying that in the following days when they put the bolo out to the fire dep'ts to the west that the fd's put all their manpower out on the street and started physically looking for her? Did they organize searches we aren't aware of? How mich manpower and resources were used to put out those bolos in your expert opinion?

All It means is to be on the lookout for someone.
That means as the cops driving around, which they're already doing, they should keep an eye out for the subject of the bolo. This isn't a search party, this isn't an amber alert.

So your saying there wasn't enoug manpower to send a call to n Woodstock and have the cops there be aware that there is a girl who is missing after a crash who might have a head injury and may need help?

What do you think a bolo entails helicopters search parties and the national guard??

The only good excuse they could possibly have for not issuing that to n Woodstock is if they knew she wasn't going there, otherwise it's just weird.

This is not a manpower issue and it's just ridiculous that you would say that it is, it requires absolutely no extra manpower except maybe a one minute call. So why would you say that? Are you intentionally trying to mislead people or do you just not know the difference between an amber alert and a bolo? I suspect you trying to mislead people her bc if not that would mean that you've been lying the whole time about you sar/ems/fd experience.
Is this kinda like when you forgot how many houses you own? Remember you corrected that poster and said you had 2 housed?? But then oh yea, I told everyone I had 3 so gotta stick to that.
Fkn joke

Somebody be bullshitting. How many jobs do this Bill dude have? He a copper too?

Sylvester Briddell wrote:

Somebody be bullshitting. How many jobs do this Bill dude have? He a copper too?

Son, I believe he is a legend in his own mind.

Major Do-Do wrote:

<quoted text>
Son, I believe he is a legend in his own mind.

Thats why he is ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

His words carry weight that would break another man's jaw

Stay thirsty my friends